Too Good to Be True

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I was looking over some stats and noticed something that shocked the hell out of me. Right now, the Cubs currently have eight hitters with an OBP over 400 right now.

 

1. Fukudome (444)

2. R. Johnson (417)

3. DeRosa (416)

4. Soto (413)

5. Lee (411)

6. Ramirez (409)

7. Theriot (408)

8. Cedeno (407)

 

Amazing! :shock:

[Andy]

Gerald Perry is a miracle worker.

 

I also think Fukudome's approach at the plate has to some extent accelerated the transition to patience.

 

If the Cubs keep being patient, they're going to be a pretty damn hard team to beat.

[Tracer Bullet]

huh. High OBPs, score a ton of runs, win a bunch of games.

 

Whodda thunk?

[CuseCubFan69]

I'll bet you all that Dusty is thinking if they hit like that when he was there he'd still be in Chicago and winning.

[bcl412]

I'll bet you all that Dusty is thinking if they hit like that when he was there he'd still be in Chicago and winning.

 

I remember when the late 90's Yankees were dominant, this was a big reason why. The Cubs have one of, if not the best offenses in the league when they are this patient.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

the nice thing is most of that list has the potential to finish in the upper 300's as well with Fukudome and Lee likely to be the only ones to stay at or above 400

[mul21]

I think the increased depth of the lineup has had a significant effect on how they all approach their at bats. They don't all feel like, "If I don't get it done here, it won't happen at all". They are confident that the guy behind them will get it done and are willing to wait for a pitch they can do something with and that results in a walk or getting a good swing on a pitch to their liking. We saw a little of the old approach last night in DeRo and Soto's ABs. Hopefully that was an abberration and they won't revert back to ABs like that.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'll bet you all that Dusty is thinking if they hit like that when he was there he'd still be in Chicago and winning.

 

I remember when the late 90's Yankees were dominant, this was a big reason why. The Cubs have one of, if not the best offenses in the league when they are this patient.

 

I agree. The saying is that speed doesn't slump but imo having batters that have a clue and work a count never really slump. If you can get 8 guys in the lineup doing this, it can be a wonderful thing.

[rocket]

maybe jim hendry finally did the right thing in just copying what the previous world series winner did. the red sox were built to draw walks and see a ton of pitches, and maybe jim actually saw it this time!

 

wtg jim

[UMFan83]

It is too good to be true. We aren't as good as our hot streak, and we won't be as bad as the inevitable cold streak. The important thing to recognize though is that the Cubs have made a monumental improvement in their plate discipline since the Dusty days, and even if we only have 2-3 hitters with an over .400 OBP vs. 8, the team is going to have better ABs all year, which leads to better counts, which leads to more walks and hits, which leads to more runs, which leads to wins.

[FergieJ31]

Top 3 OBP teams in MLB as of Tue 4/22 morning:

 

Red Sox, 375

CUBS, 364

Cardinals, 362

 

=D>

[jersey cubs fan]

I'll bet you all that Dusty is thinking if they hit like that when he was there he'd still be in Chicago and winning.

 

I remember when the late 90's Yankees were dominant, this was a big reason why. The Cubs have one of, if not the best offenses in the league when they are this patient.

 

According to Dusty the late 90's Yankees did not walk.

[Warpticon]

I'll bet you all that Dusty is thinking if they hit like that when he was there he'd still be in Chicago and winning.

 

I remember when the late 90's Yankees were dominant, this was a big reason why. The Cubs have one of, if not the best offenses in the league when they are this patient.

 

According to Dusty the late 90's Yankees did not walk.

 

Dusty saying "You don't see the Yankees talking about walks, do you?" When they led baseball in OBP at the time is a perfectly microcosmic demonstration of his folly.

[BeerHere]

What is this OBP that you're referring to?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

What is this OBP that you're referring to?

 

It's this stupid number made up by a bunch of nerds living in their mother's basement who never watched a baseball game in their life. It's based on the stupid belief that outs are bad for an offense.

[TheDude]

maybe jim hendry finally did the right thing in just copying what the previous world series winner did. the red sox were built to draw walks and see a ton of pitches, and maybe jim actually saw it this time!

 

wtg jim

Jim's main fault in this regard was Dusty, not the player selection. The 2003 and 2004 teams had several veterans with solid OBPs (not great) that underperformed in OBP under Dusty's command because of the philosophy enforced, and the loss of playing time for not hitting. Dusty had too much influence over player decisions in his last two years, and Hendry's worst decisions seemed to all occur during these years.

 

Extremist thinking paints Hendry as a man obsessed with tools and lineup formulas (RH/LH, Speed at 1, etc) and nothing else, but there are numerous personnel decisions throughout his tenure that show more balanced thinking than that, including guys with plate patience and disciplined hitting (highlighted by Lee, Fukudome, Walker, Lofton, Kendall).

 

I'd put him squarely in moderate old school, not on the extreme, with a willingness to flow with his scouting roots (which infers a willingness to embrace aspects of new school numbers).

[Andy]

Top 3 OBP teams in MLB as of Tue 4/22 morning:

 

Red Sox, 375

CUBS, 364

Cardinals, 362

 

=D>

Since the Sox have a DH advantage, I'm going to go ahead and call the Cubs the best offense of 2008 so far.

[gflore34]

It is too good to be true. We aren't as good as our hot streak, and we won't be as bad as the inevitable cold streak. The important thing to recognize though is that the Cubs have made a monumental improvement in their plate discipline since the Dusty days, and even if we only have 2-3 hitters with an over .400 OBP vs. 8, the team is going to have better ABs all year, which leads to better counts, which leads to more walks and hits, which leads to more runs, which leads to wins.

 

True enough, but, we may have a genuinely good team here, maintaining a disciplined approach is about as slump free as one can get. Hopefully, no more getting dominated by average to poor pitchers such a Doug Davis - who is exhibit A of a pitcher using a hitter' aggression against him.

[biittner77]

maybe jim hendry finally did the right thing in just copying what the previous world series winner did. the red sox were built to draw walks and see a ton of pitches, and maybe jim actually saw it this time!

 

wtg jim

Jim's main fault in this regard was Dusty, not the player selection. The 2003 and 2004 teams had several veterans with solid OBPs (not great) that underperformed in OBP under Dusty's command because of the philosophy enforced, and the loss of playing time for not hitting. Dusty had too much influence over player decisions in his last two years, and Hendry's worst decisions seemed to all occur during these years.

 

Extremist thinking paints Hendry as a man obsessed with tools and lineup formulas (RH/LH, Speed at 1, etc) and nothing else, but there are numerous personnel decisions throughout his tenure that show more balanced thinking than that, including guys with plate patience and disciplined hitting (highlighted by Lee, Fukudome, Walker, Lofton, Kendall).

 

I'd put him squarely in moderate old school, not on the extreme, with a willingness to flow with his scouting roots (which infers a willingness to embrace aspects of new school numbers).

 

Hoops saw Hendry at a AA game during 2004 and he reportedly said "I don't pay much attention to on base percentage". I think that's still mostly true. He got Lee because he could hit for average and for power. He got ramirez because he was basically free in terms of player costs. Lofton already had a reputation as a good lead off man which Hendry clearly does not equate with OBP (see the Pierre trade and the Soriano signing for evidence) He got Fukudome because he wanted a LH hitter. That he gets on base is a bonus in Hendry's eyes.

 

I used to think that a lot of Baker and Hendry's outrageous comments about OBP were in defense of players they already had. A year on BBTN for Baker proved I was wrong.

[UMFan83]

maybe jim hendry finally did the right thing in just copying what the previous world series winner did. the red sox were built to draw walks and see a ton of pitches, and maybe jim actually saw it this time!

 

wtg jim

Jim's main fault in this regard was Dusty, not the player selection. The 2003 and 2004 teams had several veterans with solid OBPs (not great) that underperformed in OBP under Dusty's command because of the philosophy enforced, and the loss of playing time for not hitting. Dusty had too much influence over player decisions in his last two years, and Hendry's worst decisions seemed to all occur during these years.

 

Extremist thinking paints Hendry as a man obsessed with tools and lineup formulas (RH/LH, Speed at 1, etc) and nothing else, but there are numerous personnel decisions throughout his tenure that show more balanced thinking than that, including guys with plate patience and disciplined hitting (highlighted by Lee, Fukudome, Walker, Lofton, Kendall).

 

I'd put him squarely in moderate old school, not on the extreme, with a willingness to flow with his scouting roots (which infers a willingness to embrace aspects of new school numbers).

 

Hoops saw Hendry at a AA game during 2004 and he reportedly said "I don't pay much attention to on base percentage". I think that's still mostly true. He got Lee because he could hit for average and for power. He got ramirez because he was basically free in terms of player costs. Lofton already had a reputation as a good lead off man which Hendry clearly does not equate with OBP (see the Pierre trade and the Soriano signing for evidence) He got Fukudome because he wanted a LH hitter. That he gets on base is a bonus in Hendry's eyes.

 

I used to think that a lot of Baker and Hendry's outrageous comments about OBP were in defense of players they already had. A year on BBTN for Baker proved I was wrong.

 

I think your right to some extent, Hendry still won't place a great emphasis on OBP, but I think he has come around to it a bit. Hendry has never seemed like a stubborn guy when it comes to his philosophies. He changes it every year (chemisty guys, guys who can play multiple positions, left handers, guys who can catch the ball). The question is, are some of the guys he picked up out of luck (Johnson, Fukudome) or plan?

 

Even if Hendry doesn't look at OBP, Lou certainly does. It's not his primary importance, but he cares about plate discipline. Wouldn't be surprised if he has influenced some of those moves.

[Abe Frohman]

http://i18.ebayimg.com/03/c/00/bf/ff/0f_8.JPG

[Elrhino]

Of course, the irony is we're going to put the worst OBP on the team at the top of the lineup as soon as he gets off the DL.

[Sammy Sofa]

Of course, the irony is we're going to put the worst OBP on the team at the top of the lineup as soon as he gets off the DL.

 

The non-ironic part is that if he's healthy he'll beat the poo out of the ball.

[ralphwiggum774]

Ralph made this in excel all by myself! Yeah!

[Roast]

Ralph made this in excel all by myself! Yeah!

Oh wow, that's crazy.