March Madness Thread

[Keener98]

i'm not sure I understand the argument that Bo Ryan is less of a coach because he does well with a bunch of unathletic white guys.....wouldn't that make him a BETTER coach than someone who has five 5-star future NBA'ers?

 

 

Bo Ryan doesnt have a bunch of unathletic white guys, but that is what the media would like everybody to think. Hes got 4 and 5 star athletes, thats why SSR said he may be a bit overrated, cause everybody likes to say he has low talent players and thats nowhere close to being true.

[illiniguy]

Bo Ryan is overrated in some circles cause he has a lot of white players on his team and people assume white players = not as good. Don't get me wrong, white people do suck at basketball, and Bo Ryan is a great coach, but I think both sides get taken to too far of an extreme some time.

 

That said I love Bo Ryan.

 

this is all truth.

Ridiculous. Bo Ryan is a great coach. White people do not suck at basketball. If you belive one stereotype you give creedence to all of them.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Looking at Bill Self, Bo Ryan and Jay Wright in the NCAAs (career):

 

Self (Overall - 18-9)

vs. seeds 1-4: 3-5

vs. seeds 5-9: 6-2

vs. seeds 10-16: 8-2

vs. higher seeded teams: 3-3

vs. lower seeded teams: 15-6

In S16: 4-1

In E8: 0-4

 

Ryan: (overall 10-6)

vs. seeds 1-4: 0-4

vs. seeds 5-9: 1-2

vs. seeds 10-16:

vs. higher seeded teams: 0-5

vs lower seeded teams: 10-1

In S16: 1-2

In E8: 0-1

 

You bolded the wrong part.

[Vanilla Ice]

Bo Ryan is overrated in some circles cause he has a lot of white players on his team and people assume white players = not as good. Don't get me wrong, white people do suck at basketball, and Bo Ryan is a great coach, but I think both sides get taken to too far of an extreme some time.

 

That said I love Bo Ryan.

 

this is all truth.

Ridiculous. Bo Ryan is a great coach. White people do not suck at basketball. If you belive one stereotype you give creedence to all of them.

 

We do suck at basketball though

[Derwood]

Bo Ryan is overrated in some circles cause he has a lot of white players on his team and people assume white players = not as good. Don't get me wrong, white people do suck at basketball, and Bo Ryan is a great coach, but I think both sides get taken to too far of an extreme some time.

 

That said I love Bo Ryan.

 

this is all truth.

Ridiculous. Bo Ryan is a great coach. White people do not suck at basketball. If you belive one stereotype you give creedence to all of them.

 

We do suck at basketball though

 

i know i do

 

/6'3" and can barely touch the rim

[snoodmonger]

Looking at Bill Self, Bo Ryan and Jay Wright in the NCAAs (career):

 

Self (Overall - 18-9)

vs. seeds 1-4: 3-5

vs. seeds 5-9: 6-2

vs. seeds 10-16: 8-2

vs. higher seeded teams: 3-3

vs. lower seeded teams: 15-6

In S16: 4-1

In E8: 0-4

 

Ryan: (overall 10-6)

vs. seeds 1-4: 0-4

vs. seeds 5-9: 1-2

vs. seeds 10-16:

vs. higher seeded teams: 0-5

vs lower seeded teams: 10-1

In S16: 1-2

In E8: 0-1

 

You bolded the wrong part.

 

True. that is relevant. I just read somewhere that Ryan has never beaten a team higher than a six seed. Anyone know if that's true?

[bukie]

Looking at Bill Self, Bo Ryan and Jay Wright in the NCAAs (career):

 

Self (Overall - 18-9)

vs. seeds 1-4: 3-5

vs. seeds 5-9: 6-2

vs. seeds 10-16: 8-2

vs. higher seeded teams: 3-3

vs. lower seeded teams: 15-6

In S16: 4-1

In E8: 0-4

 

Ryan: (overall 10-6)

vs. seeds 1-4: 0-4

vs. seeds 5-9: 1-2

vs. seeds 10-16:

vs. higher seeded teams: 0-5

vs lower seeded teams: 10-1

In S16: 1-2

In E8: 0-1

 

You bolded the wrong part.

 

True. that is relevant. I just read somewhere that Ryan has never beaten a team higher than a six seed. Anyone know if that's true?

 

They've had 5 games against teams higher than six seeds. Four 1 seeds and a 3 seed (Pitt). Really the only game they arguably should have won was the Pitt game, since it was in Wisconsin.

[Jon]

Here are a few coaching rumors according to Tim Doyle: Tim Floyd going to LSU, Jamie Dixon going to USC, and Sean Miller to Pitt

[SouthSideRyan]

Here are a few coaching rumors according to Tim Doyle: Tim Floyd going to LSU, Jamie Dixon going to USC, and Sean Miller to Pitt

 

Isiah Thomas or Jim Harrick to IU?? =P~

[Guest]

I've head those Floyd and Dixon rumors for some time. LSU is Tim Floyd's dream job.

[snoodmonger]

Here are a few coaching rumors according to Tim Doyle: Tim Floyd going to LSU, Jamie Dixon going to USC, and Sean Miller to Pitt

 

Isiah Thomas or Jim Harrick to IU?? =P~

 

Isiah Thomas to IU would be hilarious.

[MPrior]

Absolute garbage gets spewed on the internet everyday!!

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7952192/Seeding-the-Sweet-16-coaches

 

On a lighter note, a bunch of my buddies are staying at my place and we are all going to the sweet 16 here in lovely detroit.

 

Maybe they ranked them by most recognizable names. Williams, Calipari, and Huggins are mediocre coaches. The first 2 just get great talent. Huggins is a great motivator.

 

My top 5 would be Howland, Ryan, Miller, Bennett, Izzo.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with your top 5 (although any attempt at ranking coaches is pretty arbitrary), but the bolded seems pretty suspicious to me. The single most important thing a college coach of an elite program does is recruit. Getting great talent is part of what makes them great coaches. Similarly, motivating players is a big part of being a good coach.

 

But even if you narrowly define coaching as only strategic in-game decisions, execution of a system, and management of practice drills, as it seems you're doing, then whether or not a coach recruits well or motivates well is irrelevant to whether or not they're good coaches, and you haven't provided any reasoning to support your argument that they're mediocre.

 

It's not that I necessarily disagree with you - it's actually that I'm interested, because I've never thought of any of those guys as mediocre, and I'd like to hear why you think they are.

 

It's probably worth saying that I'm not being a smartass here - I'm genuinely interested in this, because my knowledge of of the ins and outs of coaching is limited.

Edited March 26, 2008 by MPrior

[snoodmonger]

Absolute garbage gets spewed on the internet everyday!!

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7952192/Seeding-the-Sweet-16-coaches

 

On a lighter note, a bunch of my buddies are staying at my place and we are all going to the sweet 16 here in lovely detroit.

 

Maybe they ranked them by most recognizable names. Williams, Calipari, and Huggins are mediocre coaches. The first 2 just get great talent. Huggins is a great motivator.

 

My top 5 would be Howland, Ryan, Miller, Bennett, Izzo.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with your top 5 (although any attempt at ranking coaches is pretty arbitrary), but the bolded seems pretty suspicious to me. The single most important thing a college coach of an elite program does is recruit. Getting great talent is part of what makes them great coaches. Similarly, motivating players is a big part of being a good coach.

 

But even if you narrowly define coaching as only strategic in-game decisions, execution of a system, and managing practice drills, as it seems you're doing, then whether or not a coach recruits well or motivates well is irrelevant to whether or not they're good coaches, and you haven't provided any reasoning to support your argument that they're mediocre.

 

It's not that I necessarily disagree with you - it's actually that I'm interested, because I've never thought of any of those guys as mediocre, and I'd like to hear why you think they are.

 

It's probably worth saying that I'm not being a smartass here - I'm genuinely interested in this, because my knowledge of of the ins and outs of coaching is limited.

 

People who say Roy Williams isn't a great coach are being idiotic. His teams run their system to perfection. The one rap on him/his teams is that, when they're disrupted from their system, they have trouble recovering. TH provides a nice safety valve for that this year, though. I also think he doesn't emphasize defense as much as he should. However, overall Roy is one of the top coaches in the game, and if I were building a program, he'd be one of my top candidates.

[MPrior]

People who say Roy Williams isn't a great coach are being idiotic. His teams run their system to perfection. The one rap on him/his teams is that, when they're disrupted from their system, they have trouble recovering. TH provides a nice safety valve for that this year, though. I also think he doesn't emphasize defense as much as he should. However, overall Roy is one of the top coaches in the game, and if I were building a program, he'd be one of my top candidates.

 

I'm partial to Roy, too, but I'm probably biased; he coaches my team, and I'm pretty fanatically devoted, he's a North Carolina boy (the best state in the nation, clearly), and he's a Dean Smith protege, and Dean Smith was a BRILLIANT coach. Plus, his offensive system is not only enormously effective, but it's also a lot of fun to watch.

 

His shortcomings as a coach, as far as I can tell, do lie on the defensive end, but from what I hear, it's not for lack of effort. If you ask him, he emphasizes defense a TON in practice. Maybe he's just not great at teaching it; maybe his players are just not that good at it; maybe his run-and-gun system just makes playing good defense hard to do. Last year's team was one of the best defensive teams in the nation, though (I think Pomeroy ratings had them as the #2 most effective defense out there at some point late in the season), so he can't be that bad at it. That probably owed a lot to Brandan Wright's wingspan, though.

 

All that said, Washington State scares the crap out of me, because they're too good a team to be swept up in Carolina's pace - I think they'll slow things down pretty effectively, and then their defense might pick UNC apart. Who knows. It's a little frustrating to know that, despite the #1 overall seed (not that I think the Heels deserve it), they have the hardest path to San Antonio, and that difference has only been exacerbated by all the upsets in the other brackets. Washington State (who was underseeded) and then (hopefully) either Tenn or Louisville is a pretty daunting path.

[snoodmonger]

Well I'm not all that biased in his favor. I think his loyalty to UNC affected the way he recruited at Kansas, and despite his phenomenal record, we could have been much better. It pisses me off that the restrictions he set on himself as a KU coach (he wouldn't recruit east of the Mississippi, largely to avoid crossing swords with Dean/UNC) no longer apply as the UNC coach. (He heavily recruited T. Releford, a Kansas native, and continually pursues people in our neck of the woods.)

 

That said, he is a great coach. His teams are always prepared. He does a great job with big men. And his system is fun to watch. In-game coaching isn't his strength, though it's not a weakness, either. I think the great recruiting coaches are often caught in a catch-22. If they win, it's because their players are better. If they lose, it's because they can't coach.

[MPrior]

Yeah, my fiance is from Kansas, and when Roy was in his stay-or-go quandary, there was some good-natured ribbing on both sides. I can see where there might be some bad feelings after he left on the part of Kansas fans - it was pretty abrupt.

[Guest]

Granted I'm a rather casual observer of UNC basketball, but given the pace of this year's team on offense, I could easily see the reason for their defensive struggles being because they give their opponent so many opportunities on offense because UNC itself scores so often. I don't know about UNC's depth but maybe the tired legs from the rapid pace gets to them more defensively.

 

I've always thought Roy Williams' teams were much better offensively than defensively. But then again, most coaches tend to be much better at one aspect of the game. From what I can see, he's not a great in-game strategist though.

[bukie]

Granted I'm a rather casual observer of UNC basketball, but given the pace of this year's team on offense, I could easily see the reason for their defensive struggles being because they give their opponent so many opportunities on offense because UNC itself scores so often. I don't know about UNC's depth but maybe the tired legs from the rapid pace gets to them more defensively.

 

I've always thought Roy Williams' teams were much better offensively than defensively. But then again, most coaches tend to be much better at one aspect of the game. From what I can see, he's not a great in-game strategist though.

 

I would say UNC is as bad defensively as Wisconsin is offensively. As in, it's not nearly as bad as it looks due to the pace they play. Sure, they aren't in the top 10 overall, but probably top 30.

[brinoch]

Here are a few coaching rumors according to Tim Doyle: Tim Floyd going to LSU, Jamie Dixon going to USC, and Sean Miller to Pitt

 

Isiah Thomas or Jim Harrick to IU?? =P~

 

There's a lot of talk that Tony Bennett is the favorite for IU. There is also a LOT of Pitino to IU chatter, as well.

[Exile on Waveland]

Here are a few coaching rumors according to Tim Doyle: Tim Floyd going to LSU, Jamie Dixon going to USC, and Sean Miller to Pitt

 

Isiah Thomas or Jim Harrick to IU?? =P~

 

There's a lot of talk that Tony Bennett is the favorite for IU. There is also a LOT of Pitino to IU chatter, as well.

 

While I don't really believe that Rick Pitino will end up at Indiana, that certainly has been the majority of the scuttlebutt over the past week or so here. I can say that IU's administration not only seems adamant on a big name type coach, but some seem very proud of themselves as if it's just a matter of time. I have concerns because I don't believe them, nor do I trust their opinion of what constitutes a "big name."

 

I like Tony Bennett a lot.

[snoodmonger]

Yeah, my fiance is from Kansas, and when Roy was in his stay-or-go quandary, there was some good-natured ribbing on both sides. I can see where there might be some bad feelings after he left on the part of Kansas fans - it was pretty abrupt.

 

I don't have a problem with him leaving. It's more that he clearly deferred to UNC while he was here, and I often wonder if that cost us a NC along the way. I also thing it was completely shi**y of UNC to can Doherty right when we were headed to the FF, knowing it would create a distraction for us.

[snoodmonger]

ben braun out at cal

[Guest]

Not surprising, Ernie Kent should be the next one out in the Pac-10.

 

And thank God. I can finally watch a Cal game without them showing the Bartman play 4456345 times and pointing out Ben Braun 5 rows behind.

[Andy]

Here are a few coaching rumors according to Tim Doyle: Tim Floyd going to LSU, Jamie Dixon going to USC, and Sean Miller to Pitt

 

Isiah Thomas or Jim Harrick to IU?? =P~

 

There's a lot of talk that Tony Bennett is the favorite for IU. There is also a LOT of Pitino to IU chatter, as well.

After watching him dismantle my team, I now think IU's list should begin, peak, and end with Tony Bennett. He's done a lot with not much at WSU and shouldn't have a problem getting good recruits to IU.

[hawkeyecub]

Not surprising, Ernie Kent should be the next one out in the Pac-10.

 

And thank God. I can finally watch a Cal game without them showing the Bartman play 4456345 times and pointing out Ben Braun 5 rows behind.

 

You think Kent gets canned this offseason?

 

Braun started out well at Cal and had heck of a reputation nationally. Then they just started going backwards. He's had some pretty decent talent out there.