Marquis - "start me or trade me": Lou - "He can go"

[nilodnayr]

For every Hundley trade there are 5 Sosa trades. Everyone keeps on bringing up Hundley as the rule, but thats the exception.

 

Also, poor Infante.

 

Agreed. However, there are many teams out there that would find value in having Marquis in the rotation, depending on the cost. Marquis wants to start and that's really all that was said. I don't think it hurts his trade value. Either a team has a need for a starter or they don't.

 

I agree that stuff like this gets overblown in terms of lowering trade value. It might mean more teams will be calling on Marquis, but like Bruce said, Marquis' arm is going to affect his trade value much more than his mouth. There definitely is a market for innings eaters. Unfortunately, Kyle Lohse is still out there on the market and will probably sign for roughly the same $ as Marquis is owned, is better, and won't cost anything players in return. We lose much more leverage in the fact that there is a viable alternative for teams out there than Marquis acting like a baby.

[cbbryan]

For every Hundley trade there are 5 Sosa trades. Everyone keeps on bringing up Hundley as the rule, but thats the exception.

 

Also, poor Infante.

 

Agreed. However, there are many teams out there that would find value in having Marquis in the rotation, depending on the cost. Marquis wants to start and that's really all that was said. I don't think it hurts his trade value. Either a team has a need for a starter or they don't.

 

I agree that stuff like this gets overblown in terms of lowering trade value. It might mean more teams will be calling on Marquis, but like Bruce said, Marquis' arm is going to affect his trade value much more than his mouth. There definitely is a market for innings eaters. Unfortunately, Kyle Lohse is still out there on the market and will probably sign for roughly the same $ as Marquis is owned, is better, and won't cost anything players in return. We lose much more leverage in the fact that there is a viable alternative for teams out there than Marquis acting like a baby.

 

That theory may be correct if the team just needs an arm and nothing more. The perfect fit would be a team that has a contract comparable to Marquis that limits them from signing someone like Lohse. If a team is in a position where they cannot extend their budget, but need to add a pitcher that would be the ideal situation. I don't know who that team is, but if the Cubs are intent on trading Marquis I hope they find that team.

[nilodnayr]

For every Hundley trade there are 5 Sosa trades. Everyone keeps on bringing up Hundley as the rule, but thats the exception.

 

Also, poor Infante.

 

Agreed. However, there are many teams out there that would find value in having Marquis in the rotation, depending on the cost. Marquis wants to start and that's really all that was said. I don't think it hurts his trade value. Either a team has a need for a starter or they don't.

 

I agree that stuff like this gets overblown in terms of lowering trade value. It might mean more teams will be calling on Marquis, but like Bruce said, Marquis' arm is going to affect his trade value much more than his mouth. There definitely is a market for innings eaters. Unfortunately, Kyle Lohse is still out there on the market and will probably sign for roughly the same $ as Marquis is owned, is better, and won't cost anything players in return. We lose much more leverage in the fact that there is a viable alternative for teams out there than Marquis acting like a baby.

 

That theory may be correct if the team just needs an arm and nothing more. The perfect fit would be a team that has a contract comparable to Marquis that limits them from signing someone like Lohse. If a team is in a position where they cannot extend their budget, but need to add a pitcher that would be the ideal situation. I don't know who that team is, but if the Cubs are intent on trading Marquis I hope they find that team.

 

Yeah, our best shot would be taking back a player that is also somewhat useless to his team and (obviously useful for us) and has a decent sized contract.

[A New Era]

Trade him for Roberts!!

[YearofDaCubs]

I'm so sick of Marquis. He had issues with the Cardinals because he was stubborn and didn't listen to his pitching coach when he was getting rocked. The sooner he's gone the sooner I will be happier.

[Roast]

The sooner he's gone the sooner I will be happier.

 

Me too. But not because he's hard headed. Because he's not good at playing baseball.

[CyHawk_Cub]

The sooner he's gone the sooner I will be happier.

 

Me too. But not because he's hard headed. Because he's not good at playing baseball.

 

^^ I think the two go hand-in-hand....at least in Marqueef's case; he's got ability, but his stubbornness has prevented him from maintaining any level of consistency...well, other than being consistently crappy for the most part.

[Sammy Sofa]

Marqueef's

 

Meh.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

On the broadcast today, Jim called this a non-issue. Len also mentioned that Lou had apologized and said he over-reacted.

 

Probably just spin, but I thought it noteworthty, none the less.

[cbbryan]

On the broadcast today, Jim called this a non-issue. Len also mentioned that Lou had apologized and said he over-reacted.

 

Probably just spin, but I thought it noteworthty, none the less.

 

 

You know that these things have to be said. I didn't expect it to get any worse then it was.

[Soul]

On the broadcast today, Jim called this a non-issue. Len also mentioned that Lou had apologized and said he over-reacted.

 

Probably just spin, but I thought it noteworthty, none the less.

 

 

You know that these things have to be said. I didn't expect it to get any worse then it was.

 

Lou should be the one apologizing though? That's stupid. Marquis should apologize for thinking anyone cares what his opinion is. He hasn't built up the cache to make statements about who should be starting and who shouldn't. Lou was completely in line with what he said.

[cbbryan]

On the broadcast today, Jim called this a non-issue. Len also mentioned that Lou had apologized and said he over-reacted.

 

Probably just spin, but I thought it noteworthty, none the less.

 

 

You know that these things have to be said. I didn't expect it to get any worse then it was.

 

Lou should be the one apologizing though? That's stupid. Marquis should apologize for thinking anyone cares what his opinion is. He hasn't built up the cache to make statements about who should be starting and who shouldn't. Lou was completely in line with what he said.

 

 

True. But if it was "overblown" and Marquis didn't say in essence "start me or trade me" then it would be categorized as a rush to judgment by Lou before knowing all the facts.

 

I don't really agree with Lou having to apologize, but I'm sure that's the perception.

 

I still think he'll be traded and thought there was a good chance of it before his comments.

[Mizzou]

Lou's apologizing? Okay, I don't have a problem with that. I do have a big problem with Marquis not apologizing though. And the quote below from this this article really cracks me up.

 

Marquis hasn't changed his tune. He still wants to be a starter.

 

"Obviously," he said. "That's one of my career goals. I've done it effectively the last four-plus, five years. I feel that's where I'm best suited. We'll go from there and keep pitching and see where it takes us."

Effectively? Seriously? Does he really think that he's done well the last few years?

[CubColtPacer]

Lou's apologizing? Okay, I don't have a problem with that. I do have a big problem with Marquis not apologizing though. And the quote below from this this article really cracks me up.

 

Marquis hasn't changed his tune. He still wants to be a starter.

 

"Obviously," he said. "That's one of my career goals. I've done it effectively the last four-plus, five years. I feel that's where I'm best suited. We'll go from there and keep pitching and see where it takes us."

Effectively? Seriously? Does he really think that he's done well the last few years?

 

To be fair to Marquis, for the 2 stats that most pitchers/casual fans care about, he has done pretty well. 4 straight years of 12 wins or more, and 3 out of 4 years of an above average ERA. Most people care about durability as well, and he also has that: 4 years of 190+ innings. I'm not saying those matter (especially the wins) but I can perfectly understand why Marquis thinks he has been effective.

 

I thought Marquis should have apologized as well as Lou, but I'm not surprised he didn't. I'm glad Lou apologized anyway.

Edited March 3, 2008 by CubColtPacer

[hardcorecubfan]

Well, now his trade value is likely so low that we're going to have to eat some salary to move him. While it's nice to know he's probably going to be gone, I would have preferred to move him without having to eat the majority of his salary.

 

He always has a good first half, trade him in late June while he has a winning record and his value is up

[snoodmonger]

I'd take that bag of beans if the other team picks up Marquis' entire salary.

In a heartbeat. I just don't see it happening anymore.

 

Meh. If a team wants him they will still need to give Hendry fair value. He is under contract so the Cubs can always just keep in the pen as a mop up reliever / spot starter instead of give him away for nothing. A "you take my problem, we take yours" trade with Boston of Marquis for Crisp, however, would seem to look more likely. But I think Hendry has been looking to move him all offseason so this new development probably doesn't change his plans much. You would think Baltimore would want him in the Roberts package (maybe to help the Cubs offset Payton's salary). They seem to love Tracshel and Marquis is actually a step up from him at this point (sad as that may be).

 

This is exactly right. There have been scouts through spring training already, and they've formed opinions on Marquis and others and have voiced them to their organizations. This little tempest really doesn't change anything as far as trade value goes.

Disagree. Regardless of what a scout reports to his boss, a player's trade value generally goes down when he makes an outburst like this.

 

I think people are overreacting. It might have a minor effect. But assuming he's already been on the trading block, it won't effect it substantially. The only way I see this dictating his value in any substantial way is if the Cubs started shopping him now, after the statement.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

is anyone else curious as to why marquis has to earn a spot, but dempster is apparently assured of the #3 spot in the rotation? dempster was pretty damn mediocre the past two years; what's he done to merit being tabbed the #3 starter?

 

It's simple, really. Dempster keeps the whole team loose and relaxed in the clubhouse with his funny jokes and pranks. In turn, the team is more productive. A rotation spot is the obvious reward for the crucial role Dempster plays on this team. Once Marquis starts telling jokes, he can get the same treatment as Dempster.

[weis21]

Rosenthaul was on XM Homeplate this morning and said he thought there would be quite a few trades by the end of ST. He said he expects Marquis to be traded, possibly in a deal for Roberts. Probably just speculation on his part, but he's been pretty good this offseason.

[fromthestretch]

On the broadcast today, Jim called this a non-issue. Len also mentioned that Lou had apologized and said he over-reacted.

 

Probably just spin, but I thought it noteworthty, none the less.

 

 

You know that these things have to be said. I didn't expect it to get any worse then it was.

 

Lou should be the one apologizing though? That's stupid. Marquis should apologize for thinking anyone cares what his opinion is. He hasn't built up the cache to make statements about who should be starting and who shouldn't. Lou was completely in line with what he said.

 

Did Marquis just come out and say these things, or was it in response to a question from the media? If it was in response to a question, I see no reason for him to apologize. From what I've read, he simply expressed a desire to start and that he feels he has earned that right. Nothing indicates that he drew a line in the sand or anything. And how do we even know that he didn't apologize to Lou? If Marquis needed to apologize, why would it have to be a public apology?

 

Lou overreacted, plain and simple. He should have waited to hear Marquis' exact words before responding.

 

Marquis wasn't exactly an All-Star last year, but he's been league-average or better in three of the past four years. Not a staff ace, but an OK back of the rotation guy (although he's getting paid a bit much for that role). As much as he struggled down the stretch last season, I still have more faith in him as a starter than I do in Dempster.

[CubColtPacer]

Rosenthaul was on XM Homeplate this morning and said he thought there would be quite a few trades by the end of ST. He said he expects Marquis to be traded, possibly in a deal for Roberts. Probably just speculation on his part, but he's been pretty good this offseason.

 

Rosnethal has been absolutely terrible this offseason after a very good offseason last year.

[Post Count Padder]

Rosenthaul was on XM Homeplate this morning and said he thought there would be quite a few trades by the end of ST. He said he expects Marquis to be traded, possibly in a deal for Roberts. Probably just speculation on his part, but he's been pretty good this offseason.

 

Rosnethal has been absolutely terrible this offseason after a very good offseason last year.

Yes, yes he has been.

 

But it doesn't keep me from salivating at the thought of Marquis being dealt for Roberts, especially if it means one less prospect we have to include in the trade.

[Soul]

On the broadcast today, Jim called this a non-issue. Len also mentioned that Lou had apologized and said he over-reacted.

 

Probably just spin, but I thought it noteworthty, none the less.

 

 

You know that these things have to be said. I didn't expect it to get any worse then it was.

 

Lou should be the one apologizing though? That's stupid. Marquis should apologize for thinking anyone cares what his opinion is. He hasn't built up the cache to make statements about who should be starting and who shouldn't. Lou was completely in line with what he said.

 

Did Marquis just come out and say these things, or was it in response to a question from the media? If it was in response to a question, I see no reason for him to apologize. From what I've read, he simply expressed a desire to start and that he feels he has earned that right. Nothing indicates that he drew a line in the sand or anything. And how do we even know that he didn't apologize to Lou? If Marquis needed to apologize, why would it have to be a public apology?

 

Lou overreacted, plain and simple. He should have waited to hear Marquis' exact words before responding.

 

Marquis wasn't exactly an All-Star last year, but he's been league-average or better in three of the past four years. Not a staff ace, but an OK back of the rotation guy (although he's getting paid a bit much for that role). As much as he struggled down the stretch last season, I still have more faith in him as a starter than I do in Dempster.

 

He re-iterated what he said though. Sure he put a spin on it, but the man is STILL basically giving this team an ultimatum. Which is total crap.

 

Plus, go back and read Lou's comments. They weren't the explosion some people say it was. He's saying Marquis should earn a spot in the rotation like anyone else. We've got 7 pitchers competing for 5 spots -- that's a good thing for a team, not bad. That's the situation teams *need* to be in at this time of year. And if Marquis wants a spot, then simply earn it. I don't see how there is much wrong with what he said anyway.

[fromthestretch]

He re-iterated what he said though. Sure he put a spin on it, but the man is STILL basically giving this team an ultimatum. Which is total crap.

 

You and I interpret his comments very differently. When I see this:

 

"We'll cross that path when it comes, obviously," he said. "I've got to take the ball whenever they give it to me and get guys out."

 

I don't read it as an ultimatum.

 

Plus, go back and read Lou's comments. They weren't the explosion some people say it was. He's saying Marquis should earn a spot in the rotation like anyone else. We've got 7 pitchers competing for 5 spots -- that's a good thing for a team, not bad. That's the situation teams *need* to be in at this time of year. And if Marquis wants a spot, then simply earn it. I don't see how there is much wrong with what he said anyway.

 

I agree that Marquis should have to earn it. However, the guys he should be battling for that spot are Marshall and Gallagher, not Dempster. I'd be pissed, too, if a guy who has flat out sucked as a starter in his career was basically handed the third spot in the rotation while I'm forced to compete for the fifth spot.

[TheDude]

is anyone else curious as to why marquis has to earn a spot, but dempster is apparently assured of the #3 spot in the rotation? dempster was pretty damn mediocre the past two years; what's he done to merit being tabbed the #3 starter?

It's not curious because it's not reality. Someone around here spun a quote into stone, folks on this board echoed the opinion, and after a few days it turned into NSBB reality (which is not actual reality). Go back to direct quotes from Piniella or Hendry and show me the one that says Dempster is definitively penciled in as a #3 (or any slot) starter.

 

All I've seen is quotes that state Dempster will be tried/stretched in ST as a potential starter.

[inari]

is anyone else curious as to why marquis has to earn a spot, but dempster is apparently assured of the #3 spot in the rotation? dempster was pretty damn mediocre the past two years; what's he done to merit being tabbed the #3 starter?

It's not curious because it's not reality. Someone around here spun a quote into stone, folks on this board echoed the opinion, and after a few days it turned into NSBB reality (which is not actual reality). Go back to direct quotes from Piniella or Hendry and show me the one that says Dempster is definitively penciled in as a #3 (or any slot) starter.

 

All I've seen is quotes that state Dempster will be tried/stretched in ST as a potential starter.

 

I've heard both Len and Pat say that Dempster will be the #3 starter. If it's just NSBB speak, it's influencing a lot of people.