Santana's been traded to a team in the northeast

[cbbryan]

This is a GREAT, GREAT deal for the Mets. If Pedro is healthy this year come playoff time they could be one heck of team to have to beat. I hope this forces the hand of Hendry to strengthen the Cubs. He may not feel the need to match the Yanks/Red Sox/Angels etc. of the AL, but when a team like the Mets makes a move like this it makes you look twice at your current team structure.

 

If the Cubs where to meet the Mets in the playoffs do they match-up pitching wise? I don't know. If Hendry was compelled to make an AJ Burnett trade in order to compete with the Mets it wouldn't hurt my feelings in the least.

[UMFan83]

Maybe we can get Liriano in 4-5 years instead. He fits our mold better anyways (with his arm injuries)

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Twins should have went to the Mariners and told them to stop screwing around with the Orioles and get their Bedard package which is loads better than this.

 

My guess is the Mariners couldn't afford to give Santana the extension, so it would have just been a waste of time.

 

True, but how much do you think Bedard will get if he has a great season this year?

 

Bedard doesn't have a no-trade clause that he will only waive if he gets his extension.

[Grammy]

It wasn't a steep price to pay for Santana at all. But how much do they really expect to get when they've already exhausted the Yankees and Red Sox bid war for him? And then to have to trade him to a team that is able to sign him to an outrageous long term deal before the trade is finalized.

[CubinNY]

I called this weeks ago.

 

kind of.

 

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46279

[frostwyrm]

Kevin Mulvey = Back of the rotation kind of guy.

Deolis Guerra = good fast/change combo. #3 more than likely, possible #2.

Carlos Gomez = defensive CF with tools but can't hit.

Philip Humber = Plus curve, average other offerings. Back of the rotation guy.

 

Guerra does have the ceiling to be a #1 if he ever got that curveball.

 

I can't believe the Twins didn't get Fernando Martinez out of this trade at least. Awful, it sounded like the Red Sox were offering more a few months ago in those rumored trades.

 

How would Veal, Gallagher, Pie, and Ceda compare to that package?

 

Just for the sake of speculation. I know it wasn't likely the Cubs could afford to pay him, given the situation.

 

The Mets will have to extend Santana at something close to full market value. If you look at all the young talent they traded plus the money involved it amounts to a huge price tag. The Cubs couldn't have afforded it.

 

Frankly, I think a Pie, Marmol, Veal, Marshall deal trumps that one. And although its a ton of our young talent, I'd do it (although I have to say I'm not a fan of Pie and Marshall, iffy on Veal, and Marmol would be trading high/hes a reliever).

 

But yeah, paying him would probably be an issue (but at least we have Sori!!!). Although if you traded Dempster, Marquis, and Lee you could easily cover his salary.

 

Yeah, we'd have to dump some payroll. If we did Pie/Marmol/Veal/Marshall plus 7/140 we'd end up with almost no trade bait and no financial flexibility. Other than Lee and Lilly, it would be hard to move most of our people. Aram won't waive his no-trade clause and Dempster and Marquis aren't worth anything. Z and Soriano aren't going anywhere.

[Backtobanks]

Twins should have went to the Mariners and told them to stop screwing around with the Orioles and get their Bedard package which is loads better than this.

 

The "experts" have been saying for a few weeks that Bedard would be more expensive (in terms of players) than Santana because Bedard had two years to go on his contract.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

so much for the Twins wanting major league ready talent in return

 

Gomez and Humber are major league ready, Mulvey probably doesn't need more than half the season.

 

major league ready on a bad team or a good team? there's a reason they weren't playing on the Mets

 

Does major league ready on a bad team mean skipping ahead to the big leagues by a year or so? Gomez had 140 AAA at bats and 125 big league at bats last season. Humber had 139 AAA IP and 7 in the bigs. They probably won't have much success right away but there isn't much more they'd need to do at AAA. If I got what you meant by major league bad team ready, Mulvey is probably ready (152 AA IP last season and his last start was at AAA).

 

I'd leave Deolis Guerra at AA 2008 and AAA the season after. If I were the Mets, I'd never have been so aggressive with him in the first place.

 

Wasn't Humber's 2007 in the minors a rehab year which derailed his move to the big leaague club?

[Derwood]

just imagine what Prior would be demanding contract-wise had he stayed healthy

[RedFlash]

Damn. Wish the Red Sox (preferably) or Yanks had gotten him.

 

I'm glad neither team got him, or we would be hearing about Johan Santana, as much as we are hearing about Tom Brady.

 

The Mets getting Santana---at a VERY steep, but worth, IMO---doesn't really affect us, so I am not really concerned about it.

 

 

How does it not affect us? Assuming we even got that far, how would you like facing Santana 3 times in a 7 game NLCS?

 

There's a chance the Cubs wouldn't face him in the regular season. And the playoffs? We should cross that bridge when we (or they) get there. Letting a pitcher---even the one of Santana's ability---to affect you mentally, then maybe you should find players who likes the challenge.

 

Again, if the Cubs have a strong enough mental and physical team in 2008, then facing a guy like Santana SHOULD NOT affect the Cubs. You have to beat the best, to become the best.

 

 

I don't even understand your logic. You'd rather strengthen a likely playoff opponent by giving them a pitcher that is often unhittable than hear about Santana on the Red Sox (or Yankees) on ESPN? If we have to face him on one of those teams in the World Series, THEN so be it. We'll cross THAT bridge when we get there.

 

Even if we're lucky enough not to face him in the regular season, it all comes down to what happens in the playoffs. The fact is, this deal makes the Mets a very imposing roadblock if we want to get to the Series.

 

So be it....I rather cross that bridge WE WHEN GET TO THE PLAYOFFS.

 

I do agree it is a roadblock with Santana/Martinez at the front of the rotation, but making it to the World Series, is ever easy. And hopefully come playoff time, if against the Mets, Z/Lilly (or whoever is the #2 at the time) is as imposing as a Santana/Martinez.

 

But right now, I'm not sweating it.

[Derwood]

we when?

[anabiono]

we when?

 

you didn't get the memo?

[David]

Damn. Wish the Red Sox (preferably) or Yanks had gotten him.

 

I'm glad neither team got him, or we would be hearing about Johan Santana, as much as we are hearing about Tom Brady.

 

The Mets getting Santana---at a VERY steep, but worth, IMO---doesn't really affect us, so I am not really concerned about it.

 

 

How does it not affect us? Assuming we even got that far, how would you like facing Santana 3 times in a 7 game NLCS?

 

There's a chance the Cubs wouldn't face him in the regular season. And the playoffs? We should cross that bridge when we (or they) get there. Letting a pitcher---even the one of Santana's ability---to affect you mentally, then maybe you should find players who likes the challenge.

 

Again, if the Cubs have a strong enough mental and physical team in 2008, then facing a guy like Santana SHOULD NOT affect the Cubs. You have to beat the best, to become the best.

 

 

I don't even understand your logic. You'd rather strengthen a likely playoff opponent by giving them a pitcher that is often unhittable than hear about Santana on the Red Sox (or Yankees) on ESPN? If we have to face him on one of those teams in the World Series, THEN so be it. We'll cross THAT bridge when we get there.

 

Even if we're lucky enough not to face him in the regular season, it all comes down to what happens in the playoffs. The fact is, this deal makes the Mets a very imposing roadblock if we want to get to the Series.

 

So be it....I rather cross that bridge WE WHEN GET TO THE PLAYOFFS.

 

I do agree it is a roadblock with Santana/Martinez at the front of the rotation, but making it to the World Series, is ever easy. And hopefully come playoff time, if against the Mets, Z/Lilly (or whoever is the #2 at the time) is as imposing as a Santana/Martinez.

 

But right now, I'm not sweating it.

 

 

I still have no idea why you'd rather the Mets get him than the Red Sox or Yanks, which is why this discussion started in the first place. Just because you don't want to hear him talked about on TV, seriously?

[OleMissCub]

No surprise that the first line on Sportscenter was something to the effect of: "Santana traded to the Mets, how does this effect the Yankees and Red Sox."

[Post Count Padder]

No surprise that the first line on Sportscenter was something to the effect of: "Santana traded to the Mets, how does this effect the Yankees and Red Sox."

:roll:

[hawkeyecub]

No surprise that the first line on Sportscenter was something to the effect of: "Santana traded to the Mets, how does this effect the Yankees and Red Sox."

 

When talking about it at halftime of the basketball game on ESPN they said the dates that the Mets play the Yankees this year.

 

They've gone so far, they can't even be parodied anymore.

[RedFlash]

 

I still have no idea why you'd rather the Mets get him than the Red Sox or Yanks, which is why this discussion started in the first place. Just because you don't want to hear him talked about on TV, seriously?

 

Anything brings the gap between the NL and the AL (I can't stand the fact that since what....1996, the AL has been considered the 'strong favorite' in the World Series at a ratio of 2:1) is something I like to see, even if it possibly affects the Cubs. If the Cubs can't win the World Series, I would rather see alot NL teams get stronger, and close talent gap between the two leagues. So it's no always about getting the Cubs stronger, I want the NL stronger as a whole. That is why I prefer the Mets getting Santana over the Red Sox (who didn't need him) or the Yankees (who didn't want to overspend for him).

 

Not to mention, when the Cubs beat out the Mets, Cubs can say they beat an AL quality team in the Mets.

[Irrelevant Dude]

Anything brings the gap between the NL and the AL (I can't stand the fact that since what....1996, the AL has been considered the 'strong favorite' in the World Series at a ratio of 2:1) is something I like to see, even if it possibly affects the Cubs.

I have to agree with this somewhat. Part of me wants a weak NL that the Cubs can breeze right through, but the other part of me is tired of the onsidedness and would like to see the talent balanced out between leagues. Hey who knows, maybe Santana will us the All-Star game and be the reason for the Cubs having home field advantage in the World Series!

[Mephistopheles]

Kevin Mulvey = Back of the rotation kind of guy.

Deolis Guerra = good fast/change combo. #3 more than likely, possible #2.

Carlos Gomez = defensive CF with tools but can't hit.

Philip Humber = Plus curve, average other offerings. Back of the rotation guy.

 

Guerra does have the ceiling to be a #1 if he ever got that curveball.

 

I can't believe the Twins didn't get Fernando Martinez out of this trade at least. Awful, it sounded like the Red Sox were offering more a few months ago in those rumored trades.

 

 

to project him developing a good curveball is similar to projecting ben revere to hit 25 HRs annually.

[inari]

I think the DH is going to make the AL stronger just about every single year. Not saying the NL should implement it, but I don't think the bridge can ever be truly gapped with that in place.

[SouthSideRyan]

The DH has nothing to do with the AL being better lately. It's because the AL has teams that will spend money, the NL has teams that won't. The Cubs, Dodgers, and Mets have to spend big money and establish themselves such to force other teams to try and truly improve themselves to make themselves or become the Pirates.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The DH has nothing to do with the AL being better lately. It's because the AL has teams that will spend money, the NL has teams that won't. The Cubs, Dodgers, and Mets have to spend big money and establish themselves such to force other teams to try and truly improve themselves to make themselves or become the Pirates.

 

It's shortsighted to say that the DH has nothing to do with it. The ability to store impact hitters who may get hurt/rehurt in that spot has allowed many AL teams to be more aggressive in getting FA hitters. Magglio Ordonez is the prime example of this.

[RedFlash]

I'm not going to prolong the confab about Johan's affect (real or not) on the Cubs and/or the NL. People are not going to convince me that Johan Santana is going to have an affect on the Cubs, unless the Cubs acquired Bedard or Burnett. End of story from my end.

 

It's good move for the Mets, and if the Mets get in the Cubs way...then the Cubs need to "take care of business."

[Wrigley Rat]

I'm not a fan of Pie and Marshall, iffy on Veal, and Marmol would be trading high/hes a reliever.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Yet I think that package could have gotten it done. If we threw in Dempster and/or Wuertz (a Minnesota kid) it was a no-brainer. Too bad Santana wants all that $$$$.

[Geech]

If this is the actual deal for Santana, it makes the Haren trade look a lot better. I still hate the Swisher trade, though.