Collaborative historical ranking

[OleMissCub]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

11. Rickey Henderson

 

Rickey is great and all, but to put him above guys with career lines of .331/.417/.559, 159 OPS+, .366/.433/.512, 167 OPS+, and .358/.434/.577, 175 OPS+?

 

Rickey's is .279/.401/.419, 127 OPS+

[Transmogrified Tiger]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

11. Rickey Henderson

 

Rickey is great and all, but to put him above guys with career lines of .331/.417/.559, 159 OPS+, .366/.433/.512, 167 OPS+, and .358/.434/.577, 175 OPS+?

 

They wouldn't hack it in Rickey's MLB.

[OleMissCub]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

11. Rickey Henderson

 

Rickey is great and all, but to put him above guys with career lines of .331/.417/.559, 159 OPS+, .366/.433/.512, 167 OPS+, and .358/.434/.577, 175 OPS+?

 

They wouldn't hack it in Rickey's MLB.

 

One of those guys is still alive.

Edited December 4, 2007 by OleMissCub

[Productive Outs]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

11. Rickey Henderson

12. Roger "The Rocket" Clemens

[Transmogrified Tiger]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

11. Rickey Henderson

 

Rickey is great and all, but to put him above guys with career lines of .331/.417/.559, 159 OPS+, .366/.433/.512, 167 OPS+, and .358/.434/.577, 175 OPS+?

 

They wouldn't hack it in Rickey's MLB.

 

One of those guys is still alive.

 

But you're right, if a guy didn't play in your lifetime, he doesn't count.

 

Can't ignore progress.

[OleMissCub]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

11. Rickey Henderson

 

Rickey is great and all, but to put him above guys with career lines of .331/.417/.559, 159 OPS+, .366/.433/.512, 167 OPS+, and .358/.434/.577, 175 OPS+?

 

They wouldn't hack it in Rickey's MLB.

 

One of those guys is still alive.

 

But you're right, if a guy didn't play in your lifetime, he doesn't count.

 

Can't ignore progress.

 

So you don't think half the guys that are ranked should be there?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

A couple maybe, not half.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

11. Rickey Henderson

12. Roger "The Rocket" Clemens

13. Alex Rodriguez

Edited December 4, 2007 by burnt out cubbie fan

[Rob]

A couple maybe, not half.

 

For all the arguments stating that the level of competition has increased by so much, most people tend to forget the argument that these historic athletes would have access to newer methods of strength training, conditioning, and all these fancy new diets... not to mention that they'd have incentive to actually use them, considering the money being thrown around.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

A couple maybe, not half.

 

For all the arguments stating that the level of competition has increased by so much, most people tend to forget the argument that these historic athletes would have access to newer methods of strength training, conditioning, and all these fancy new diets... not to mention that they'd have incentive to actually use them, considering the money being thrown around.

 

I'm well aware of that, I just don't think it makes nearly as much difference as the talent pool expansion.

[OleMissCub]

A couple maybe, not half.

 

For all the arguments stating that the level of competition has increased by so much, most people tend to forget the argument that these historic athletes would have access to newer methods of strength training, conditioning, and all these fancy new diets... not to mention that they'd have incentive to actually use them, considering the money being thrown around.

 

Exactly. It works both ways. Who is to say that a modern all-star could hack it in 1915? Would they have the fortitude to stand up there without a helmet and without umpires holding their hand against head hunting pitchers, etc? There are constant stories about batters breaking bones, breaking skulls, hell even one guy was killed at bat!

[burnt out cubbie fan]

A couple maybe, not half.

 

For all the arguments stating that the level of competition has increased by so much, most people tend to forget the argument that these historic athletes would have access to newer methods of strength training, conditioning, and all these fancy new diets... not to mention that they'd have incentive to actually use them, considering the money being thrown around.

At the same time the historical pitchers would not have been able to pitch every 2nd or 3rd day and be forced to pitch complete games and many of their stats would not be as inflated as they are.

[OleMissCub]

A couple maybe, not half.

 

For all the arguments stating that the level of competition has increased by so much, most people tend to forget the argument that these historic athletes would have access to newer methods of strength training, conditioning, and all these fancy new diets... not to mention that they'd have incentive to actually use them, considering the money being thrown around.

 

I'm well aware of that, I just don't think it makes nearly as much difference as the talent pool expansion.

 

But to not have someone like Cobb in the top 13 is adjusting way too much.

[OleMissCub]

A couple maybe, not half.

 

For all the arguments stating that the level of competition has increased by so much, most people tend to forget the argument that these historic athletes would have access to newer methods of strength training, conditioning, and all these fancy new diets... not to mention that they'd have incentive to actually use them, considering the money being thrown around.

At the same time the historical pitchers would not have been able to pitch every 2nd or 3rd day and be forced to pitch complete games and many of their stats would not be as inflated as they are.

 

But those "legend" type pitchers for the old era deserve the credit for having the arm stamina in longevity to do that. If you look at "team stats" from those days you'll see that they went through A LOT of pitchers who just burned out. It seems like the average pitcher back then only pitched 2 or 3 years.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

So why don't you just have everyone make a list of the top 10 or 20 and then compare instead of having people make a list and then complaining about the way that it is forming?

[OleMissCub]

So why don't you just have everyone make a list of the top 10 or 20 and then compare instead of having people make a list and then complaining about the way that it is forming?

 

Because that isn't as much fun. It's more interesting this way.

 

I'm not bitching as much as it seems, as I agree with just about everyone named so far at least being in the top 20....just don't see how you can not have a guy listed yet who is 2nd in hits all time, 2nd in runs scored, 4th in doubles, 2nd in triples, 6th in RBI, 4th in SB's, and 1st in career BA.

[NCCubFan]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

11. Rickey Henderson

12. Roger "The Rocket" Clemens

13. Alex Rodriguez

14. Sandy Koufax

 

He didn't have the longevity other players had, but during his prime nobody was better (my opinion). It would have been interesting to see what his career could have been if not cut short (much like Gale Sayers in football).

[rocket]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

11. Rickey Henderson

12. Roger "The Rocket" Clemens

13. Alex Rodriguez

14. Sandy Koufax

 

He didn't have the longevity other players had, but during his prime nobody was better (my opinion). It would have been interesting to see what his career could have been if not cut short (much like Gale Sayers in football).

 

pedro in his prime >>> sandy koufax in his prime. it's not even close.

[sethuel1]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

11. Rickey Henderson

12. Roger "The Rocket" Clemens

13. Alex Rodriguez

14. Sandy Koufax

15. Jimmie Foxx

[OleMissCub]

 

pedro in his prime >>> sandy koufax in his prime. it's not even close.

 

Definitely agree there.

 

Statistician Bill Burgess has his most impressive pitching peaks listed as:

 

Pedro Martinez 1997-2003, 215 ERA+

Walter Johnson 1910-1914, 204 ERA+

Roger Clemens 1986-1992, 164 ERA+

Sandy Koufax 1961-1966, 161 ERA+

Ed Walsh 1907-1912, 160 ERA+

[bhogg]

Jody Davis probably won't make the cut, will he?

[rocket]

 

pedro in his prime >>> sandy koufax in his prime. it's not even close.

 

Definitely agree there.

 

Statistician Bill Burgess has his most impressive pitching peaks listed as:

 

Pedro Martinez 1997-2003, 215 ERA+

Walter Johnson 1910-1914, 204 ERA+

Roger Clemens 1986-1992, 164 ERA+

Sandy Koufax 1961-1966, 161 ERA+

Ed Walsh 1907-1912, 160 ERA+

 

i'd also argue that pedro's 2000 season is the best individual season by a baseball player of all time. i might be way off in that ops+ and era+ shouldn't be compared, but i thought this was fascinating:

 

babe ruth's highest ops+: 256 in 1920

barry bonds' highest ops+: 268 in 2002

pedro's highest era+: 291 in 2000

[SouthSideRyan]

I'll make it official.

 

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

11. Rickey Henderson

12. Roger "The Rocket" Clemens

13. Alex Rodriguez

14. Sandy Koufax

15. Jimmie Foxx

16. Pedro Martinez

[Roast]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

11. Rickey Henderson

12. Roger "The Rocket" Clemens

13. Alex Rodriguez

14. Sandy Koufax

15. Jimmie Foxx

16. Ty Cobb

 

 

 

It's a crime that he's that low.

[snoodmonger]

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Barry Bonds

4. Honus Wagner

5. Willie Mays

6. Hank Aaron

7. Josh Gibson

8. Cy Young

9. Lou Gehrig

10. Joe DiMaggio

11. Rickey Henderson

12. Roger "The Rocket" Clemens

13. Alex Rodriguez

14. Sandy Koufax

15. Jimmie Foxx

16. Mel Ott