MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[cubfan1955]

like everyone else? how do you know everyone doesn't have you on ignore? roberts is designed to get on base. soriano swings to drive people in. Get it? The stats point it out & so does the article posted earlier today. Funny how you don't answer my question. Why are they going after roberts? because they so desparately want a #2 hitter? Yeah...that's it.

 

Alright, this ongoing argument is obviously annoying people, so this will be my last post to you.

 

roberts is designed to get on base.

 

 

Why are they going after roberts? because they so desparately want a #2 hitter? Yeah...that's it

 

Do you not see theridiculously flawed and short minded "logic" you're using? Why do you insist that Roberts can't be used as a number 2 hitter? I feel like I'm talking to an infant. "Oh, because he's a LEADOFF hitter!".

 

You have yet to name one thing that Roberts can do as a leadoff hitter that he can't do as a 2 hitter. You said it yourself, Roberts is designed to get on base. Is that not his goal as a number 2 hitter? You've got some bizarre concept of baseball in your mind that makes a leadoff hitter completely different than a number 2 hitter just because he has a specific name. It's like "no, a leadoff hitter can't possible bat 2nd! Then he wouldn't be a leadoff hitter and would be completely useless!" Do you really not see how incredibly foolish that is? That's like criticizing the Phillies choice to start Myers on opening day (to line up their rotation) by saying somthing like "Hamels as a number 2 starter!? But he's an ACE! A number 1 starter!! What's the point of even starting him if he's going to be a number 2 starter?! We might as well just trade him if he isn't our ACE!.

 

That sounds ridiculous, but it's exactly what you're doing. "Leadoff hitter" is a spot in the lineup, not a position in the lineup. It's not like we're getting Roberts so he can play right field or something. I've yet to hear any examples of what Roberts can do in the leadoff spot that he can't so in the 2 hole. Roberts is every bit as valuable in the 2 spot as he is in the leadoff spot. Would he hit 2nd? I really don't know for sure, but neither do you. Stop it with this ridiculous and warped logic.

 

Ok, I'm done. I promise this time. Everytime I see a post from this guy I can't resist, but I won't be reading them anymore.

 

I apologize to everyone on this board.

 

You're doing the exact same thing with Soriano! HE CAN'T HIT ANYWHERE BUT LEADOFF OR THE EARTH WILL IMPLODE! As you like to say...just STOP it. You criticize wrigley23 for saying the same things over and over and you are doing the exact same thing. I'll give him credit. At least he can see possibilities with Soriano batting someplace other than leadoff while you have tunnel vision and you can't see Soriano doing anything other than sucking if he isn't batting leadoff. Players improve as they mature. It's not a stretch that Soriano could have a monster year in the middle of the Cubs lineup. If you are so sure-fired sure Soriano will suck anywhere other than leadoff because of past years why can't you believe Roberts could have a .385 OBP. He's done it before. The stats prove it.

 

Brian Roberts has never hit 2nd in his MLB career so how do you know he can do everything as well hitting 2nd as he does hitting leadoff? Maybe he's got a mental block hitting 2nd? That's about as logical as Soriano having a mental block hitting anywhere besides leadoff.

 

I'd be just fine with moving Soriano down if we could get a viable replacement to hit leadoff...like Roberts. The guy (Soriano) has considerable talent and is entering the prime of his career. He'll get his hits and it makes no difference where he is hitting.

[17 Seconds]

like everyone else? how do you know everyone doesn't have you on ignore? roberts is designed to get on base. soriano swings to drive people in. Get it? The stats point it out & so does the article posted earlier today. Funny how you don't answer my question. Why are they going after roberts? because they so desparately want a #2 hitter? Yeah...that's it.

 

Alright, this ongoing argument is obviously annoying people, so this will be my last post to you.

 

roberts is designed to get on base.

 

 

Why are they going after roberts? because they so desparately want a #2 hitter? Yeah...that's it

 

Do you not see theridiculously flawed and short minded "logic" you're using? Why do you insist that Roberts can't be used as a number 2 hitter? I feel like I'm talking to an infant. "Oh, because he's a LEADOFF hitter!".

 

You have yet to name one thing that Roberts can do as a leadoff hitter that he can't do as a 2 hitter. You said it yourself, Roberts is designed to get on base. Is that not his goal as a number 2 hitter? You've got some bizarre concept of baseball in your mind that makes a leadoff hitter completely different than a number 2 hitter just because he has a specific name. It's like "no, a leadoff hitter can't possible bat 2nd! Then he wouldn't be a leadoff hitter and would be completely useless!" Do you really not see how incredibly foolish that is? That's like criticizing the Phillies choice to start Myers on opening day (to line up their rotation) by saying somthing like "Hamels as a number 2 starter!? But he's an ACE! A number 1 starter!! What's the point of even starting him if he's going to be a number 2 starter?! We might as well just trade him if he isn't our ACE!.

 

That sounds ridiculous, but it's exactly what you're doing. "Leadoff hitter" is a spot in the lineup, not a position in the lineup. It's not like we're getting Roberts so he can play right field or something. I've yet to hear any examples of what Roberts can do in the leadoff spot that he can't so in the 2 hole. Roberts is every bit as valuable in the 2 spot as he is in the leadoff spot. Would he hit 2nd? I really don't know for sure, but neither do you. Stop it with this ridiculous and warped logic.

 

Ok, I'm done. I promise this time. Everytime I see a post from this guy I can't resist, but I won't be reading them anymore.

 

I apologize to everyone on this board.

 

You're doing the exact same thing with Soriano! HE CAN'T HIT ANYWHERE BUT LEADOFF OR THE EARTH WILL IMPLODE! As you like to say...just STOP it.

 

Come on man, those 2 things are completely different. There's a reason why I think Soriano shouldn't hit anywhere other than leadoff: because his numbers will drop. Whether or not his numbers will drop is debatable, but at least that has reasoning. That is completely different than saying Roberts should only bat leadoff and never second. Where is the reasoning behind that? There is none. It's because he holds the title "leadoff hitter".

 

 

why can't you believe Roberts could have a .385 OBP

 

Ugh, again, please read what I have been saying. I never said Roberts can't have a .385 obp. We've been over this. I was saying I don't think it's an accurate statement to say "Roberts will have a .385 obp". If he said "Roberts could have a .385 obp" I would have never said anything. Like I said in another post that you apparently didn't read, Derrek Lee could hit 46 home runs again this season, but I don't think it's a fair statement to say "Derrek Lee will have 46 home runs this year". Let's just drop this because it really doesn't matter and people clearly aren't getting what I said.

 

Brian Roberts has never hit 2nd in his MLB career so how do you know he can do everything as well hitting 2nd as he does hitting leadoff? Maybe he's got a mental block hitting 2nd? That's about as logical as Soriano having a mental block hitting anywhere besides leadoff.

 

Again, that's a very poor comparison. There is reasoning behind the Soriano argument, and even evidence. Like I said before, it's debatable, but at least there is a good argument to be made. Do you have any reasoning or evidence to say the Roberts can't hit 2nd? No. There is none. It;s like saying "Why did the Tigers get Miguel Cabrera? He might not be able to hit in the AL!". So, that statement is true, but there is no evidence or reasoning that makes you think he might not be able to hit in the AL, so it's a silly statement. The reason people don't like moving Soriano down is because there is strong logic and history of it. Roberts has neither. Please, stop with these baseless comparisons.

 

Anyways, let's just drop all of this. I'm sick of arguing.

[Sterling30]

I realize I'm a relative newbie, so I respectfully request that if anyone wants to continue arguing with w23 or dm, they do so without quoting them in their post. It negates the "foe" feature, and I don't want to add any more folks by association with them.

[17 Seconds]

I realize I'm a relative newbie, so I respectfully request that if anyone wants to continue arguing with w23 or dm, they do so without quoting them in their post. It negates the "foe" feature, and I don't want to add any more folks by association with them.

 

I'm sorry, I'll stop. I should have moved on with the foe feature like everyone else.

[fromthestretch]

Funny how you don't answer my question.

 

Wait a minute...are you criticizing someone for not answering a question?

[UMFan83]

This thread sucks. How come that other offtopic discussion got moved to its own thread, while this barely even slightly on topic post goes on and on for over 30 pages.

[brinoch]

It's all designed to torment you.

 

 

 

Or it might be because none of the mods were online when the latest flare-up occurred.

[Burtonbell]

Update from my source:

Cedeno just woke up and hasn't showered yet. He is clearly packing his bags instead. I think the trade is a done deal by the end of the day.

[anabiono]

Update from my source:

Cedeno just woke up and hasn't showered yet. He is clearly packing his bags instead. I think the trade is a done deal by the end of the day.

 

i always knew he was dirty...

 

good riddance

 

:wave:

[JGalt73]

No new news, but news anyway, from the Sun....

 

Baltimore Sun[/url] February 29, 2008"]

 

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. - On a day when two Chicago Cubs scouts were on hand to watch him play, second baseman Brian Roberts stood out in the Orioles' otherwise dreary exhibition season debut yesterday.

 

Roberts went 1-for-2 with a walk, an RBI double, a run scored and two stolen bases in the Orioles' 16-3 loss to the Florida Marlins at Fort Lauderdale Stadium.

 

...was taken in by Cubs special assistant to the general manager Ken Kravec along with another Cubs scout, is an example of what makes Roberts so attractive to Chicago officials.

 

Looking for a leadoff hitter to jump-start their offense and get on base ahead of sluggers Alfonso Soriano, Aramis Ramirez and Derrek Lee, the Cubs have targeted Roberts for months and there is a sense in the industry that the uncertainty with second baseman Mark DeRosa could accelerate the trade talks. DeRosa underwent a procedure yesterday to correct an irregular heartbeat.

 

The Orioles are believed to be looking for a package that includes pitcher Sean Gallagher, shortstop Ronny Cedeno, pitching prospects Jose Ceda and/or Donald Veal, and perhaps one other player.

 

The Orioles will dispatch a scout to Arizona next week to look at some of the players being discussed. Both sides feel confident that a deal could get done, but not immediately, as talks are expected to continue for a few more weeks.

Edited February 29, 2008 by JGalt73

[anabiono]

No new news, but news anyway, from the Sun....

 

 

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. - On a day when two Chicago Cubs scouts were on hand to watch him play, second baseman Brian Roberts stood out in the Orioles' otherwise dreary exhibition season debut yesterday.

 

Roberts went 1-for-2 with a walk, an RBI double, a run scored and two stolen bases in the Orioles' 16-3 loss to the Florida Marlins at Fort Lauderdale Stadium.

 

...was taken in by Cubs special assistant to the general manager Ken Kravec along with another Cubs scout, is an example of what makes Roberts so attractive to Chicago officials.

 

Looking for a leadoff hitter to jump-start their offense and get on base ahead of sluggers Alfonso Soriano, Aramis Ramirez and Derrek Lee, the Cubs have targeted Roberts for months and there is a sense in the industry that the uncertainty with second baseman Mark DeRosa could accelerate the trade talks. DeRosa underwent a procedure yesterday to correct an irregular heartbeat.

 

The Orioles are believed to be looking for a package that includes pitcher Sean Gallagher, shortstop Ronny Cedeno, pitching prospects Jose Ceda and/or Donald Veal, and perhaps one other player.

 

The Orioles will dispatch a scout to Arizona next week to look at some of the players being discussed. Both sides feel confident that a deal could get done, but not immediately, as talks are expected to continue for a few more weeks.

 

like i said a few pages back...mid-march

 

BRob cubbie blue

[The Voice of Reason]

I just saw Ronny Cedeno at a Taco Bell in Ft. Lauderdale.

[cubfan1955]

Anyways, let's just drop all of this. I'm sick of arguing.

 

There is legitimate arguments to both sides. At this point I don't see either side changing their views so on that I agree, let's just drop it.

 

The Cubs won 12-6 yesterday and Ryan Theriot was our leadoff hitter. Hopefully Lou doesn't fall in love with that idea.

[shnsajax]

This kind of feels like the whole Mike Lowell thing from many years back.

[apete6]

This kind of feels like the whole Mike Lowell thing from many years back.

 

Does that mean we get someone better (Aramis), but lose to the Orioles in the WS? Sign me up for Chase Utley...

 

Roberts hits a pinch hit, game winning HR in game 1 off of Eyre, Cubs go up 3 games to 1, but lose in 7.

[Post Count Padder]

According to the Baltimore Sun, two Cubs scouts watched Brian Roberts go 1-for-2 with a walk and two stolen bases Thursday.

 

The newspaper notes that trade talks "are expected to continue for a few more weeks" and reports that "the Orioles are believed to be looking for a package that includes pitcher Sean Gallagher, shortstop Ronny Cedeno, pitching prospects Jose Ceda and/or Donald Veal, and perhaps one other player."

Source: Baltimore Sun

[cbbryan]

According to the Baltimore Sun, two Cubs scouts watched Brian Roberts go 1-for-2 with a walk and two stolen bases Thursday.

 

The newspaper notes that trade talks "are expected to continue for a few more weeks" and reports that "the Orioles are believed to be looking for a package that includes pitcher Sean Gallagher, shortstop Ronny Cedeno, pitching prospects Jose Ceda and/or Donald Veal, and perhaps one other player."

Source: Baltimore Sun

 

Just hang up the phone when they ask for that much, Jim!

[brinoch]

I really hate this whole deal now. I think I'm going to go pay a visit to Roberts and just end the discussion once and for all. :evil:

[UMFan83]

Would you really be pissed if it was Gallagher, Cedeno and Ceda?

 

I wouldn't...

[David]

Would you really be pissed if it was Gallagher, Cedeno and Ceda?

 

I wouldn't...

 

I really wouldn't, either.

[Burtonbell]

Would you really be pissed if it was Gallagher, Cedeno and Ceda?

 

I wouldn't...

 

Actually no. I hope its only a 3 for 1 deal now with the players said above. I wouldn't mind if Ceda was repalced with Veal, in fact I would like that deal much better.

 

I am happy Murton isn't part of the rumors we are hearing anymore. I could live without Ceda and Cedeno. Gallagher will be missed, but like said earlier (I think Raw said it) we have to give up talent to get talent.

[C.C.]

Would you really be pissed if it was Gallagher, Cedeno and Ceda?

 

I wouldn't...

 

I'm all in.

[ctcf]

Would you really be pissed if it was Gallagher, Cedeno and Ceda?

 

I wouldn't...

 

Actually no. I hope its only a 3 for 1 deal now with the players said above. I wouldn't mind if Ceda was repalced with Veal, in fact I would like that deal much better.

 

I am happy Murton isn't part of the rumors we are hearing anymore. I could live without Ceda and Cedeno. Gallagher will be missed, but like said earlier (I think Raw said it) we have to give up talent to get talent.

 

I'd rather give up Veal instead as well.

[Post Count Padder]

Would you really be pissed if it was Gallagher, Cedeno and Ceda?

 

I wouldn't...

 

Actually no. I hope its only a 3 for 1 deal now with the players said above. I wouldn't mind if Ceda was repalced with Veal, in fact I would like that deal much better.

 

I am happy Murton isn't part of the rumors we are hearing anymore. I could live without Ceda and Cedeno. Gallagher will be missed, but like said earlier (I think Raw said it) we have to give up talent to get talent.

 

I'd rather give up Veal instead as well.

Agreed. I think both have good attributes, but I like Ceda's chances better of producing in the majors. I wish we could sub Marshall for Gallagher as well, since we apparantly don't want him in the rotation, but you gotta do, what you gotta do.

 

Gallagher, Cedeno, Veal for Roberts, I can live with.

[Rob]

It's all designed to torment you.

 

 

 

Or it might be because none of the mods were online when the latest flare-up occurred.

 

Yeti should be appointed a mod, so that there's somebody here to cover the night-shifts.