Forget Marmol closing

[UK1679666180]

Would Atl. trade Renteria for Marmol or Marshall? I'm not sure. If I was Atlanta I wouldn't trade him, put Escobar at 2B, I'd shift Johnson to the OF and see if Francouer can handle CF, with the super sub Willie Harris getting a fair amount of ABs in CF as well.

 

I think ATL will do the trade for Marshall.

 

If they do trade him, I think they could get more, especially since they'll be selling high with the year he's having.

[nilodnayr]

Would Atl. trade Renteria for Marmol or Marshall? I'm not sure. If I was Atlanta I wouldn't trade him, put Escobar at 2B, I'd shift Johnson to the OF and see if Francouer can handle CF, with the super sub Willie Harris getting a fair amount of ABs in CF as well.

 

I think ATL will do the trade for Marshall.

 

If they do trade him, I think they could get more, especially since they'll be selling high with the year he's having.

 

I think they could get more in terms of prospects, but they aren't going to find anyone whos major league proven and cheap like Marshall. They are looking for someone to step into the rotation for 2008 and provide some certainty that they didn't have with their rotation of prospects this year. Plus, who else needs a SS?

[nilodnayr]

Joba also started most of this year in the minors. He's also a much more polished pitcher than Marmol and the Yankees unlike the Cubs will likely not have 5 SPs at the start of the year.

 

So because Marmol spent most of the year dominating major leaguers, we should discount him? He did start off the season with 7 starts in AAA posting a 1.02 WHIP, 10.54 K/9 and 2.63 BB/9 if that makes you feel better.

 

And back to the discussion which you didn't want to talk about, the Cubs could upgrade their offensive blackhole at SS by moving Marshall, opening up a spot in the rotation.

 

He was dominating hitters at a position the Cubs would have to replace if they move him to starter. They would have to go outside the organization to get a reliever to try and replace the production of Marmol.

 

I'd feel more comfortable with the rotation/pen together and look to improve the offense via prospects for trade and players like Soto than trading players on an already thin 25 man roster.

 

We had a discussion yesterday about Marmol's Leverage Index. I think he could be replaced adequately internally with Wuertz or a minor leaguer. Or as I laid out, you could move Demp to the rotation.

[UK1679666180]

Would Atl. trade Renteria for Marmol or Marshall? I'm not sure. If I was Atlanta I wouldn't trade him, put Escobar at 2B, I'd shift Johnson to the OF and see if Francouer can handle CF, with the super sub Willie Harris getting a fair amount of ABs in CF as well.

 

I think ATL will do the trade for Marshall.

 

If they do trade him, I think they could get more, especially since they'll be selling high with the year he's having.

 

I think they could get more in terms of prospects, but they aren't going to find anyone whos major league proven and cheap like Marshall. They are looking for someone to step into the rotation for 2008 and provide some certainty that they didn't have with their rotation of prospects this year. Plus, who else needs a SS?

 

There's about 10 teams that could use a SS.

 

Cubs

Cards

Pitt (if they trade Wilson)

Hou

SF

White Sox

KC

Detroit (depending on Guillen)

Bal (Tejada)

Toronto

Oakland (see what they do with Crosby)

 

We had a discussion yesterday about Marmol's Leverage Index. I think he could be replaced adequately internally with Wuertz or a minor leaguer

.

 

The Cubs would be out of their mind trying to use Wuertz/minor leaguer in the same role as Marmol could potentially be used next year.

 

Let's not kid oursleves and assume Marmol was maximized this year.

[Guest]

I could easily see the Cubs plugging Dempster in the rotation if Marshall is traded. I don't think Marmol going back to the rotation is on their radar even.

[nilodnayr]

Would Atl. trade Renteria for Marmol or Marshall? I'm not sure. If I was Atlanta I wouldn't trade him, put Escobar at 2B, I'd shift Johnson to the OF and see if Francouer can handle CF, with the super sub Willie Harris getting a fair amount of ABs in CF as well.

 

I think ATL will do the trade for Marshall.

 

If they do trade him, I think they could get more, especially since they'll be selling high with the year he's having.

 

I think they could get more in terms of prospects, but they aren't going to find anyone whos major league proven and cheap like Marshall. They are looking for someone to step into the rotation for 2008 and provide some certainty that they didn't have with their rotation of prospects this year. Plus, who else needs a SS?

 

There's about 10 teams that could use a SS.

 

Cubs

Cards

Pitt (if they trade Wilson)

Hou

SF

White Sox

KC

Detroit (depending on Guillen)

Bal (Tejada)

Toronto

Oakland (see what they do with Crosby)

 

We had a discussion yesterday about Marmol's Leverage Index. I think he could be replaced adequately internally with Wuertz or a minor leaguer

.

 

The Cubs would be out of their mind trying to use Wuertz/minor leaguer in the same role as Marmol could potentially be used next year.

 

Let's not kid oursleves and assume Marmol was maximized this year.

 

And what SP do those teams have to trade? IMO Marshall>>Garland. Detroit would probably the only team that can put together a better offer.

[UK1679666180]

I could easily see the Cubs plugging Dempster in the rotation if Marshall is traded. I don't think Marmol going back to the rotation is on their radar even.

 

Neither do I, but it's more b/c of an inability to think outside of the box rather than considering it and then rejecting it.

 

Fwiw, I wouldn't want Dempster in the rotation either but that's more for overall production (lack of) as a starter compared to be missing in the pen.

[UK1679666180]

 

And what SP do those teams have to trade? IMO Marshall>>Garland. Detroit would probably the only team that can put together a better offer.

 

It all depends on how much ATL values Renteria and how much the other teams value him. All it does is take one team to value him more.

[Guest]

Exactly, I think they want to plug Marmol into the closer spot as soon as possible.

[Mephistopheles]

GUYS WE HAVE MARK PRIOR NEXT SEASON TOO

[nilodnayr]

 

The Cubs would be out of their mind trying to use Wuertz/minor leaguer in the same role as Marmol could potentially be used next year.

 

Let's not kid oursleves and assume Marmol was maximized this year.

 

I think Marmol's done a great job, but hes being used as a 7th inning guy. Both Dempster (1.65) and Howry (1.48) have higher Leverage Indexes than Marmol (1.24). Which shows that Marmol's value was not maximized.

 

HOWEVER, to your point, Marmol does have the highest Win Probability Added of the relievers (2.84) to Howry (1.41) and Dempster (1.34). WPA does show that Marmol has been the individual that has contributed the most of any of our bullpen (and actually entire stafff) to the success of the team.

 

Interesting that the back end of our rotations LI and WPA have an inverse relationship.

[Rob]

GUYS WE HAVE MARK PRIOR NEXT SEASON TOO

 

That's assuming Hendry isn't stupid enough to non-tender him.

[nilodnayr]

Would Atl. trade Renteria for Marmol or Marshall? I'm not sure. If I was Atlanta I wouldn't trade him, put Escobar at 2B, I'd shift Johnson to the OF and see if Francouer can handle CF, with the super sub Willie Harris getting a fair amount of ABs in CF as well.

 

I think ATL will do the trade for Marshall.

 

If they do trade him, I think they could get more, especially since they'll be selling high with the year he's having.

 

I think they could get more in terms of prospects, but they aren't going to find anyone whos major league proven and cheap like Marshall. They are looking for someone to step into the rotation for 2008 and provide some certainty that they didn't have with their rotation of prospects this year. Plus, who else needs a SS?

 

There's about 10 teams that could use a SS.

 

Cubs

Cards

Pitt (if they trade Wilson)

Hou

SF

White Sox

KC

Detroit (depending on Guillen)

Bal (Tejada)

Toronto

Oakland (see what they do with Crosby)

 

We had a discussion yesterday about Marmol's Leverage Index. I think he could be replaced adequately internally with Wuertz or a minor leaguer

.

 

The Cubs would be out of their mind trying to use Wuertz/minor leaguer in the same role as Marmol could potentially be used next year.

 

Let's not kid oursleves and assume Marmol was maximized this year.

 

And what SP do those teams have to trade? IMO Marshall>>Garland. Detroit would probably the only team that can put together a better offer.

 

And I forgot to mention that its pretty much a lock that Jack Wilson, or another (thought to be) defensive minded SS will be headed to the Tigers, eliminating the only team that could put together a better package.

[Guest]

If Marmol were moved to the rotation, we might be able to find another reliever to fill the 7th inning role internally. I think Wuertz was suffering from a dead arm after his heavy use the past couple years. He could bounce back to his 2005/06 levels next year pretty easily (or continue a decline, admittedly). Eyre has been awfully effective in the second half, too. He could move back into the 7th inning role he was signed for.

 

Roquet is another option that could develop into a pretty effective pitcher at the major league level by the end of next year. Could be Petrick if he's healthy. Samardzija if his slider develops. Even Ceda if his control takes a leap. They could choose to put Veal in that role and he might be able to harness things better as a reliever. Mateo could be healthy.

 

Heck, it could be Wood or even Prior.

 

I guess I'm suggesting that it may not be that hard to fill the 7th inning role.

[Mephistopheles]

Prior will be the number five guy next year guys. I am relatively optimistic. And you guys know how pessimistic i am.

[XZero771679666304]

Prior will be the number five guy next year guys. I am relatively optimistic. And you guys know how pessimistic i am.

 

I agree.

[SouthSideRyan]

Prior will be the number five guy next year guys. I am relatively optimistic. And you guys know how pessimistic i am.

 

Wow, I assumed you were being sarcastic before. I like hearing that.

[Outshined_One]

Prior will be the number five guy next year guys. I am relatively optimistic. And you guys know how pessimistic i am.

 

:shock:

[davearm]

Prior will be the number five guy next year guys. I am relatively optimistic. And you guys know how pessimistic i am.

I trust that you're capable of being optimistic, yet still appreciate how absolutely insane it would be to rely on, or plan around, Prior pitching even one single fastball for the Cubs next year.

[illiniguy]

Prior will be the number five guy next year guys. I am relatively optimistic. And you guys know how pessimistic i am.

I trust that you're capable of being optimistic, yet still appreciate how absolutely insane it would be to rely on, or plan around, Prior pitching even one single fastball for the Cubs next year.

Mark Prior is going to shock the world next year. Hendry better not let him get away.

[rawaction]

If Marmol were moved to the rotation, we might be able to find another reliever to fill the 7th inning role internally. I think Wuertz was suffering from a dead arm after his heavy use the past couple years. He could bounce back to his 2005/06 levels next year pretty easily (or continue a decline, admittedly). Eyre has been awfully effective in the second half, too. He could move back into the 7th inning role he was signed for.

 

Roquet is another option that could develop into a pretty effective pitcher at the major league level by the end of next year. Could be Petrick if he's healthy. Samardzija if his slider develops. Even Ceda if his control takes a leap. They could choose to put Veal in that role and he might be able to harness things better as a reliever. Mateo could be healthy.

 

Heck, it could be Wood or even Prior.

 

I guess I'm suggesting that it may not be that hard to fill the 7th inning role.

 

It's not hard at all to fill the role. Nobody though, is gonna be as good as Marmol. But the Cubs have to weigh their options. If the Cubs can get a huge upgrade in the OF will it be enough to overcome the likely downgrade in the rotation and bullpen? I think it's worth a shot.

[Guest]

If Marmol were moved to the rotation, we might be able to find another reliever to fill the 7th inning role internally. I think Wuertz was suffering from a dead arm after his heavy use the past couple years. He could bounce back to his 2005/06 levels next year pretty easily (or continue a decline, admittedly). Eyre has been awfully effective in the second half, too. He could move back into the 7th inning role he was signed for.

 

Roquet is another option that could develop into a pretty effective pitcher at the major league level by the end of next year. Could be Petrick if he's healthy. Samardzija if his slider develops. Even Ceda if his control takes a leap. They could choose to put Veal in that role and he might be able to harness things better as a reliever. Mateo could be healthy.

 

Heck, it could be Wood or even Prior.

 

I guess I'm suggesting that it may not be that hard to fill the 7th inning role.

 

It's not hard at all to fill the role. Nobody though, is gonna be as good as Marmol. But the Cubs have to weigh their options. If the Cubs can get a huge upgrade in the OF will it be enough to overcome the likely downgrade in the rotation and bullpen? I think it's worth a shot.

I doubt Marmol in 2008 will be as good as Marmol in 2007, too. It would be incredibly rare for any reliever to have years that good back to back.

[Mephistopheles]

Prior will be the number five guy next year guys. I am relatively optimistic. And you guys know how pessimistic i am.

I trust that you're capable of being optimistic, yet still appreciate how absolutely insane it would be to rely on, or plan around, Prior pitching even one single fastball for the Cubs next year.

 

people said i was insane when i tabbed tim redding as a fantasy sleeper this year. 3.73 era

[jersey cubs fan]

If Marmol were moved to the rotation, we might be able to find another reliever to fill the 7th inning role internally. I think Wuertz was suffering from a dead arm after his heavy use the past couple years. He could bounce back to his 2005/06 levels next year pretty easily (or continue a decline, admittedly). Eyre has been awfully effective in the second half, too. He could move back into the 7th inning role he was signed for.

 

Roquet is another option that could develop into a pretty effective pitcher at the major league level by the end of next year. Could be Petrick if he's healthy. Samardzija if his slider develops. Even Ceda if his control takes a leap. They could choose to put Veal in that role and he might be able to harness things better as a reliever. Mateo could be healthy.

 

Heck, it could be Wood or even Prior.

 

I guess I'm suggesting that it may not be that hard to fill the 7th inning role.

 

It's not hard at all to fill the role. Nobody though, is gonna be as good as Marmol. But the Cubs have to weigh their options. If the Cubs can get a huge upgrade in the OF will it be enough to overcome the likely downgrade in the rotation and bullpen? I think it's worth a shot.

I doubt Marmol in 2008 will be as good as Marmol in 2007, too. It would be incredibly rare for any reliever to have years that good back to back.

 

And I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that they find somebody who, while not as good as Marmol, surprises heavily on the upside in 2008.

[Burtonbell]

If Marmol were moved to the rotation, we might be able to find another reliever to fill the 7th inning role internally. I think Wuertz was suffering from a dead arm after his heavy use the past couple years. He could bounce back to his 2005/06 levels next year pretty easily (or continue a decline, admittedly). Eyre has been awfully effective in the second half, too. He could move back into the 7th inning role he was signed for.

 

Roquet is another option that could develop into a pretty effective pitcher at the major league level by the end of next year. Could be Petrick if he's healthy. Samardzija if his slider develops. Even Ceda if his control takes a leap. They could choose to put Veal in that role and he might be able to harness things better as a reliever. Mateo could be healthy.

 

Heck, it could be Wood or even Prior.

 

I guess I'm suggesting that it may not be that hard to fill the 7th inning role.

 

It's not hard at all to fill the role. Nobody though, is gonna be as good as Marmol. But the Cubs have to weigh their options. If the Cubs can get a huge upgrade in the OF will it be enough to overcome the likely downgrade in the rotation and bullpen? I think it's worth a shot.

I doubt Marmol in 2008 will be as good as Marmol in 2007, too. It would be incredibly rare for any reliever to have years that good back to back.

 

And I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that they find somebody who, while not as good as Marmol, surprises heavily on the upside in 2008.

 

I am hoping it could be found in house. No need to pay some reliever another ridiculous contract. I am praying it will be Woody, but not counting on it. Im not sold on Jeff S. just yet, but I do like the Veal & Ceda options.

 

This is a very good topic, IMO. I hope the current Cubs brass or future Cubs brass will talk internally this offseason about it.