Forget Marmol closing

[Mephistopheles]

Let's trade Marshal and start the force that is Carlos Marmol. He'd be fine.

 

 

BTW the FB/SLD only myth are guys that cant start is just that a myth

[Mephistopheles]

Oh and I don't expect any of you to agree with me. That's expected.

[PrimeTime]

Marmol started last year and he kinda sucked at it..He mightve developed more this year though..I look at him as a dominant guy to come out of the pen as he's been doing..I don't see him going inning after inning as a starter and being consistent as he gets wild alot as we seen last year when he started

[Transmogrified Tiger]

BTW the FB/SLD only myth are guys that cant start is just that a myth

 

I don't necessarily disagree, but why? And do the reasons for that apply to Marmol?

[Warren Brusstar]

Oh and I don't expect any of you to agree with me. That's expected.

 

That's because you're so much smarter that all of the rest of us!

 

:roll:

 

And of course he'd be fine. That Marmol would be a fantastic starter too is an entirely unremarkable proposition.

[Mephistopheles]

BTW the FB/SLD only myth are guys that cant start is just that a myth

 

I don't necessarily disagree, but why? And do the reasons for that apply to Marmol?

 

Because having two dominant pitches outwieghs having 3 lackluster pitches? To help the Cubs by making this transition he'd need to be close to a 100 ERA+ pitcher. If his ERAs under 4.50 hed provide more value as a starter. (roughly speaking i havent run the numbers to be precise).

 

that allows Hill to be expendable, or Marshall to get a real shortstop.

[UK1679666180]

You're right as far as being a starter w/2 pitches but...

 

He's a max effort pitcher out of the pen, for me to be convinced he can pitch effectively as a starter, I'd have to see him pace himself 1st and how he and his stuff adjusts to the less strain for longer usage.

[Mephistopheles]

hed be fine. hes from that latin american sun.

 

and just abut everyone is max effort who throws 90+. Even guys who dont look it really are max efforting it. Only rare mark prior cases or the opposite.

[UK1679666180]

hed be fine. hes from that latin american sun.

 

and just abut everyone is max effort who throws 90+. Even guys who dont look it really are max efforting it. Only rare mark prior cases or the opposite.

 

Max effort w/clean arm actions is diff. than Marmols', most pitchers are about 85-95% effort depending on fatigue and situation.

 

I wouldn't be too against it, they'd have to monitor him in a similar manner as Maddux does to himself.

 

I'd rather see him take a greater role of importance in the pen than try and make him a starter though.

[Rob]

There's no way Marmol shouldn't be starting next year.

[JimSorgi]

I agree with you

[WrigleyField 22]

hed be fine. hes from that latin american sun.

 

and just abut everyone is max effort who throws 90+. Even guys who dont look it really are max efforting it. Only rare mark prior cases or the opposite.

Its too bad he's not from the African sun, Dusty.

[jersey cubs fan]

I wouldn't have a problem trying to stretch him out for the rotation next year. But I'm not convinced he can translate his relief success into starting success. He's had an insane K rate this year that far exceeds his minor league norms. And he's been virtually unhittable in the limited duty. He's always had control problems, including this year, and I see that haunting him more in longer duty.

 

I would have to be convinced the Cubs had a solid plan to harness hit talents as a starter before agreeing with this move, and given this team's long standing desire to find a real closer, including almost forcing Zambrano into that role, I can't envision them being 100% committed to making Marmol a starter. I could see them bailing on the project quickly, or hedging their bets in some way, which may end up doing more harm than good in the end.

[rawaction]

This topic has been discussed in a couple threads. I'd agree with Marmol being a starter. Again, you have Dempster close. Howry stay in his role. If you bring Kerry Wood back, either he or Wuertz (who has succeeded in this role before) takes over the 7th inning role. Stretch Marmol out in the spring. Either he shows he becomes a solid starter and stays in the rotation, he doesn't and goes back to his current role or Prior and/or some of the prospects show they are ML ready and he goes back to his role ala Papelbon.

[AlwaysaCub]

DUMB Idea. He's a max effort guy with a funky delivery that is definitely bad for his elbow. If he started next year in the rotation he would end it on the operating table of Dr. James Andrews.

[Rob]

DUMB Idea. He's a max effort guy with a funky delivery that is definitely bad for his elbow. If he started next year in the rotation he would end it on the operating table of Dr. James Andrews.

 

He has less of an injury history than Marshall, and you don't see anybody supporting Marshall going to the pen.

[nilodnayr]

So, those people who are against it were also against Z starting, right?

[UK1679666180]

If Z's situation was the same as Marmol's, yes, I'd be against it. Of course, it's not the same.

[davearm]

BTW the FB/SLD only myth are guys that cant start is just that a myth

 

I don't necessarily disagree, but why? And do the reasons for that apply to Marmol?

 

Because having two dominant pitches outwieghs having 3 lackluster pitches? To help the Cubs by making this transition he'd need to be close to a 100 ERA+ pitcher. If his ERAs under 4.50 hed provide more value as a starter. (roughly speaking i havent run the numbers to be precise).

 

that allows Hill to be expendable, or Marshall to get a real shortstop.

Who ever said a guy with 3 lackluster pitches would make a good starter?

[davearm]

DUMB Idea. He's a max effort guy with a funky delivery that is definitely bad for his elbow. If he started next year in the rotation he would end it on the operating table of Dr. James Andrews.

I wouldn't assume that making 30 or so starts is harder on a guy's arm than making 70 or so relief appearances. In fact the exact opposite may be true. John Smoltz felt that way.

[nilodnayr]

If Z's situation was the same as Marmol's, yes, I'd be against it. Of course, it's not the same.

 

They aren't too horribly different.

[Mephistopheles]

If Z's situation was the same as Marmol's, yes, I'd be against it. Of course, it's not the same.

 

 

It most certainly was in 2002. Pretty much the exact same situation

[CyHawk_Cub]

DUMB Idea. He's a max effort guy with a funky delivery that is definitely bad for his elbow. If he started next year in the rotation he would end it on the operating table of Dr. James Andrews.

 

He has less of an injury history than Marshall, and you don't see anybody supporting Marshall going to the pen.

 

Marshall also doesn't have dominant stuff to get a strike out in a critical late inning situation. But your point about relative propensity for injury is well taken...fwiw.

[UK1679666180]

If Z's situation was the same as Marmol's, yes, I'd be against it. Of course, it's not the same.

 

 

It most certainly was in 2002. Pretty much the exact same situation

 

Z never had a year like Marmol did out of the pen this year. I believe they feel comfortable with their 5 starters this year, I can't say the same thing about '02's staff.

 

Zambrano doesn't have the same pure stuff as Marmol and they're different style pitchers.

 

I think Marmol will maximize his effectiveness as a properly used reliever compared to a starter. Wainwright last year was more effective as a reliever than a starter this year, I expect similar declines in Marmol (although, Marmol has better stuff than Wainwright as well) as a starter to the point where the difference between him and Marshall isn't worth the loss of him as a properly used reliever.

[VanceJergins]

My only concern is that he is so freaking awesome as a reliever. I love having him come into a game and feeling completely comfortable. I would hate to have him fail as a starter and something Cub like happens and he gets head issues and is never able to readjust himself to being a reliever.

 

This isn't based on real evidence or anything like that, so I can't think of any real reasons not to try him as a starter.