Brendan Harris and the Nomar trade

[don_kessinger_was_good]

The Nomar trade doesn't look quite as innocent as it once did. Harris is no star, and at 27 he's no longer a kid, either. But he's become a full-time starter in Tampa--which is more than Matt Murton has managed in Chicago--and his numbers match up well with Ryan Theriot at SS. Similar BA and OBP, Harris has better power, Theriot has (much) more speed and better defense.

 

If the trade were viewed at this point as Harris for Murton, I think it would be a wash. With the benefit of hindsight, scratch one from Hendry's victory column.

 

FYI, Francis Beltran was 2-9 with an ERA of nearly 5 and BAA of 300 (with 8 saves) in AAA this year; he will be 28 this fall. Justin Jones was 11-8 with a 3.72 ERA (though 1.40 WHIP, 282 BAA and just 87 K's in 121 IP) in split time between high-A and AA. He won't turn 23 until the end of this month. Beltran is now in the Orioles system and Jones is with the Nats.

[Drew Doughty]

his numbers are supported by a hot start. since june, and aside from a power surge to start this month, he's been pretty bad. 681 OPS and a 308 OBP since the break.

 

i would much rather have murton than harris now and going forward.

[Little Slide Rooter]

It got Alex Gonzales out of own, and that in its own was good enough for me.

[soccer10k]

First full season (well, mostly full) in the majors:

 

Murton: Age 24, .297/.365/.444/.809 in 508 PA's

 

Harris: Age 26, .284/.341/.425/.766 in 557 PA's

 

Even this year in sporadic playing time Murton has a .751 OPS. Murton has better stats at a younger age. The Cubs got the better of the two prospects.

[Tracer Bullet]

The Nomar trade doesn't look quite as innocent as it once did. Harris is no star, and at 27 he's no longer a kid, either. But he's become a full-time starter in Tampa--which is more than Matt Murton has managed in Chicago--and his numbers match up well with Ryan Theriot at SS. Similar BA and OBP, Harris has better power, Theriot has (much) more speed and better defense.

 

If the trade were viewed at this point as Harris for Murton, I think it would be a wash. With the benefit of hindsight, scratch one from Hendry's victory column.

 

FYI, Francis Beltran was 2-9 with an ERA of nearly 5 and BAA of 300 (with 8 saves) in AAA this year; he will be 28 this fall. Justin Jones was 11-8 with a 3.72 ERA (though 1.40 WHIP, 282 BAA and just 87 K's in 121 IP) in split time between high-A and AA. He won't turn 23 until the end of this month. Beltran is now in the Orioles system and Jones is with the Nats.

 

You know damn well that Murton's not starting because the Cubs signed Soriano and then Lou put him in LF (blocking Murton) and then all but benched Murton for the year for reasons beyond understanding.

 

If the Rays had added ARod as a SS in the off-season, blocking Harris, he never would have had his hot start and this thread would be no more. Harris has had the opportunity to play, doesn't mean he's the better player.

[rawaction]

Harris isn't even putting up those numbers with the team he was traded to. The key to the deal is what he did with the team he was traded to. That's like saying the Rangers lost the Sosa deal to the Sox, because he became a great player with the Cubs.

[Banedon]

The Nomar trade doesn't look quite as innocent as it once did. Harris is no star, and at 27 he's no longer a kid, either. But he's become a full-time starter in Tampa--which is more than Matt Murton has managed in Chicago--and his numbers match up well with Ryan Theriot at SS. Similar BA and OBP, Harris has better power, Theriot has (much) more speed and better defense.

 

If the trade were viewed at this point as Harris for Murton, I think it would be a wash. With the benefit of hindsight, scratch one from Hendry's victory column.

 

FYI, Francis Beltran was 2-9 with an ERA of nearly 5 and BAA of 300 (with 8 saves) in AAA this year; he will be 28 this fall. Justin Jones was 11-8 with a 3.72 ERA (though 1.40 WHIP, 282 BAA and just 87 K's in 121 IP) in split time between high-A and AA. He won't turn 23 until the end of this month. Beltran is now in the Orioles system and Jones is with the Nats.

 

No update on Alex Gonzalez??? :lol:

 

I think where the Harris/Theriot comparison falls apart a bit is BB/K ratio. Harris's is ugly while Theriot's is almost flatfooted even.

[SouthSideRyan]

You're also ignoring the #s Nomar put up for us. I can't think of a definition that makes that trade a loser for us unless Justin Jones stops getting hurt.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

You're also ignoring the #s Nomar put up for us. I can't think of a definition that makes that trade a loser for us unless Justin Jones stops getting hurt.

70 odd games....13 HR's in 2 seasons..yeah he was a juggarnaut for us I'd say

[inari]

You're also ignoring the #s Nomar put up for us. I can't think of a definition that makes that trade a loser for us unless Justin Jones stops getting hurt.

 

Nomar was pretty mediocre for us.

[CubColtPacer]

You're also ignoring the #s Nomar put up for us. I can't think of a definition that makes that trade a loser for us unless Justin Jones stops getting hurt.

 

Nomar was pretty mediocre for us.

 

True, but Nomar was still a little better for the Cubs than Harris has been for TB this year.

 

Also, apparently Harris has been moved off of SS. He hasn't started a game there since July 29th, and the guy who was playing 2nd some of the time (Wilson) is now playing SS all of the time. Playing at 2B really dilutes the value that Harris has, and his numbers have been horrible after the break.

[SouthSideRyan]

You're also ignoring the #s Nomar put up for us. I can't think of a definition that makes that trade a loser for us unless Justin Jones stops getting hurt.

 

Nomar was pretty mediocre for us.

 

And Brendan Harris is a world beater.

 

It was a big win for the Cubs at the time, and nothing that's transpired since then has made it any less of one. Harris had no right playing the SS position, and without the ability to play SS, I'm failing to see how he's more valuable than Matt Murton now and in the future.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

You're also ignoring the #s Nomar put up for us. I can't think of a definition that makes that trade a loser for us unless Justin Jones stops getting hurt.

 

Nomar was pretty mediocre for us.

 

And Brendan Harris is a world beater.

 

It was a big win for the Cubs at the time, and nothing that's transpired since then has made it any less of one. Harris had no right playing the SS position, and without the ability to play SS, I'm failing to see how he's more valuable than Matt Murton now and in the future.

 

Agreed. This thread seems silly to me.

[mhuber92211]

Taking this one from the victory column? Seriously? Its a victory if only for the fact that Hendry got Nomar & Murton for Doug Mientkeivc (?sp? whatever).

 

No matter if Jones turns out to be a #3 starter and Harris becomes Eckstein, the trade is still a win. Even hindsight makes this a good trade.

[jersey cubs fan]

I like Harris, but I'd much rather have Murton.

[questionmarkgrace]

You know damn well that Murton's not starting because the Cubs signed Soriano and then Lou put him in LF (blocking Murton) and then all but benched Murton for the year for reasons beyond understanding.

 

wow. I know this thread is about the nomar trade and the fringe players involved but your reaction sounds alot like you would rather have Murton in left than Soriano. Whether you meant it like that or not lets get it straight. Everyone is in love with Murton because of what he could be not what he is. Murton is a young guy with some decent upside but so far his has little power, hes a liability on defense, and has a low baseball IQ. He will be lucky to make the playoff roster, if we get there.

[CubinNY]

 

wow. I know this thread is about the nomar trade and the fringe players involved but your reaction sounds alot like you would rather have Murton in left than Soriano. Whether you meant it like that or not lets get it straight. Everyone is in love with Murton because of what he could be not what he is. Murton is a young guy with some decent upside but so far his has little power, hes a liability on defense, and has a low baseball IQ. He will be lucky to make the playoff roster, if we get there.

These types of post still amaze me.

[questionmarkgrace]

These types of post still amaze me.

 

your post amazes me. how can you justify putting Murton in our line up right now? He 'd probably be comparable in right to what we have all year but he makes floyd look like a gold glover out there. So its a moot point. Apparently everyone forgot how baserunners ran all over murton last year. Soriano still takes suspect routes and his arm looks much better in left as evidenced by the number of assists he has had, so hes not moving over for him. In 06, He also grounded into 163 outs. If last years teams was so inept he would have grounded in to 40 double plays instead of 16. The year everyone seems to think was awesome, Murton barely posted a .800 ops. Not that great.

Consequently a very injured Soriano has so far posted a .853 and has been carrying this team for the last month with his defense and offense.

[Roast]

 

wow. I know this thread is about the nomar trade and the fringe players involved but your reaction sounds alot like you would rather have Murton in left than Soriano. Whether you meant it like that or not lets get it straight. Everyone is in love with Murton because of what he could be not what he is. Murton is a young guy with some decent upside but so far his has little power, hes a liability on defense, and has a low baseball IQ. He will be lucky to make the playoff roster, if we get there.

These types of post still amaze me.

 

I'm with you, here.

 

Low baseball IQ?

 

Are you kidding me? What constitutes him having a low baseball IQ? He seems like an extremely intelligent guy to me.

 

 

As far as would we rather see him in left than soriano...well I don't think anyone is going to say that. However:

 

 

Alfonso Soriano (Post All Star Break) .243/.275/.761

Matt Murton (Post All Star Break) 291/.358/.858

 

..it wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen.

 

 

Obviously I'm not saying to bench Soriano in place of Murton...but benching floyd in place of him....

[Roast]

These types of post still amaze me.

 

your post amazes me. how can you justify putting Murton in our line up right now? He 'd probably be comparable in right to what we have all year but he makes floyd look like a gold glover out there. So its a moot point. Apparently everyone forgot how baserunners ran all over murton last year. Soriano still takes suspect routes and his arm looks much better in left as evidenced by the number of assists he has had, so hes not moving over for him. In 06, He also grounded into 163 outs. If last years teams was so inept he would have grounded in to 40 double plays instead of 16. The year everyone seems to think was awesome, Murton barely posted a .800 ops. Not that great.

Consequently a very injured Soriano has so far posted a .853 and has been carrying this team for the last month with his defense and offense.

 

That's ludicrous.

 

He's batting .243 since the all star break, and .242 in September. That .853 OPS you're bragging about is completely fueled by the first half of the season. As I pointed out in my above post, he hasn't cracked .800 since the all star break. Murton has.

 

Also, saying that floyd makes anyone look like a gold glover is completely insane.

[questionmarkgrace]

Murton has .853 ops in all of 87 at bats since the all star break. Thats a small sample size to get an accurate analysis of a player's stats. But if you want to go there we will. His post all star numbers are based largely on the fact that he is hitting lefties to the tune of a .913 ops vs righties a .815 ops. He is also hitting .317 with the bases empty and .195 with men on for the season. People criticize soriano for the same thing but at least he is hitting .254 with men on base. But again none of this matters because murton isnt taking over left field and cant play right field to save his life. He takes terrible routes, misplays balls, and misses cutoffmen. What more is there to say? I dont know about you guys but I watched every game last year, as I always do, and it was painful to watch teams run all over our entire outfield. I dont want that to happen again.

 

As for soriano's numbers keep in mind his post all star ops is .793. WHich is not that big of a drop off when you consider that he missed 20+ days on the dl and that he is playing no where close to 100%. And he is still carrying us in the clutch. With 2 or more men on since july 31st he has 9rbi's and 3 hrs in 25 at bats. not too shabby.

[Keener98]

How bout Murton now? Though he had no power?lol

[questionmarkgrace]

sure he hits lefties well but he still left five men on base in his other two at bats. If he can play an serviceble rightfield defensively It wouldnt bother me at all. But I'm not too sure he can.

[SouthSideRyan]

I absolutely cannot understand somebody watching Murton play defense and watching Floyd play defense, and somehow coming away thinking Floyd is better out there.

[Roast]

I absolutely cannot understand somebody watching Murton play defense and watching Floyd play defense, and somehow coming away thinking Floyd is better out there.

 

We call it a "bias."

 

And look, I never tried to say murton should be starting over Soriano; but to shrug him off is crap is ludicrous when he's been putting up solid numbers for a couple months now.