Ankiel and HGH

[Mizzou]

Reporter: "Why would you pick up these drugs at this clinic instead of picking them up from a drug store like everyone else gets their prescriptions?"

 

Ankiel: "Well, that's just the way that it happened and I really don't have any further statements about this."

 

Hahahaha

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

His answers simply mean, "I was using HGH to get an edge and jump start my career. I can't say that, so I need to avoid this question."

[Shilzzz]

the hypocrisy of the media on this is killing me. these people roast barry bonds and then say it's overblown on ankiel. obviously there is a difference here, but hgh is hgh, and you can't say one person is way wrong and one "is getting blown out of proportion," as the Fox announcer just said "because he isn't hitting .150."

 

yeah. he wouldn't stick in the majors if he was hitting .150.

 

good story previous to this or not, he should not get an automatic pass.

[abuck1220]

the doctor/patient privilege line is hilarious.

[wade]

the hypocrisy of the media on this is killing me. these people roast barry bonds and then say it's overblown on ankiel. obviously there is a difference here, but hgh is hgh, and you can't say one person is way wrong and one "is getting blown out of proportion," as the Fox announcer just said "because he isn't hitting .150."

 

yeah. he wouldn't stick in the majors if he was hitting .150.

 

good story previous to this or not, he should not get an automatic pass.

 

Yes, yes, yes.

 

If this story is swept away and assertions of it being overblown, etc. persist, it will look to me like Bonds' race and/ or pursuit of the homerun record amplified the public outrage against him.

 

I already think baseball players are more criticized than any other athletes for PEDs. If white baseball players not chasing records don't catch hell then it'll narrow the bias a little more in my eyes.

[Outshined_One]

Choose Your Own Adventure!

[wade]

Now Jay Gibbons has been named in the pharmacy investigation.

[NCCubFan]

Now Jay Gibbons has been named in the pharmacy investigation.

Somebody beat you to that.

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[beer_man]

Saying this is getting swept under the rug is way off...what is being swept under the rug is when this happens in the NFL...they are getting a free pass...

 

can you say Rodney Harrison

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20641776/from/RS.1/

[The Voice of Reason]

the hypocrisy of the media on this is killing me. these people roast barry bonds and then say it's overblown on ankiel. obviously there is a difference here, but hgh is hgh, and you can't say one person is way wrong and one "is getting blown out of proportion," as the Fox announcer just said "because he isn't hitting .150."

 

yeah. he wouldn't stick in the majors if he was hitting .150.

 

good story previous to this or not, he should not get an automatic pass.

 

People that condem Bonds but support Ankiel are either racists or fools.

 

Jayson Stark does an excellent job laying out the double standard some people are applying.

 

http://proxy.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3009424

 

The defenses, the rationalizations, the leave-this-guy-alone pleas on behalf of Ankiel came rolling in Friday as Americans tried their best to wish away the nasty HGH bomb that had just been dropped on their favorite sporting fairy tale.

 

He wasn't even a hitter then.

 

It wasn't a banned substance then.

 

He had a doctor's prescription.

 

He was recovering from Tommy John surgery.

 

He needed it to heal.

 

He hasn't been accused of any "wrongdoing."

 

The media is out to get him.

 

It's not like he's Barry Bonds or something.

 

We heard them all Friday, on the radio, in our inbox, in the questions cascading at us in an hour-long chat.

 

We understand where all those arguments come from. We understand why people want to make them. There are varying degrees of merit to every one of them.

 

But at times like this -- with Ankiel's HGH blockbuster tag-teaming with a report linking Troy Glaus to steroid shipments from the same Orlando pharmacy -- we often find the perception of these stories as fascinating as the stories themselves.

 

That's because we live in a world ablaze in double standards. And we're never more aware of those double standards than we are when stories like these break.

 

In his first 23 games as a major league outfielder, Rick Ankiel has nine home runs.

As Ankiel's saga in particular so vividly demonstrates, we adjust those standards -- and taper our level of outrage -- depending on whose name happens to wind up in the headline.

 

Is this a player we like or a player we don't like?

 

Is this a player we root for or a player we root against?

 

Is this a player slugging his way to "history," or is he "just a pitcher"?

 

Is this player a star trying to "cheat" his way to glory, or is he just some poor underdog trying to keep up with the drug-popping masses?

 

And then there's the double standard that really inflates our blood pressure:

 

Is this guy one of those cheating baseball players, or is he a football player just doing his selfless best to get healthy and help his team get to the big game?

 

If we're looking for the perfect test case for all those double standards, you can't beat this Rick Ankiel tale. It overlaps just about every one of them

[KyHen]

People that condem Bonds but support Ankiel are either racists or fools.

Yeah, you're completely right -- except the fact that Bonds is notoriously known for being one of the biggest jerks in the game of baseball (this coming from someone who faults Ankiel in this case more than he defends him).

 

 

Topics like these are why I really like coming to NSBB. You can say this is obvious and expected, but the general "tones" of the topic here compared to GWB are drastically different. It's really neat seeing perspectives from both sides of the spectrum.

[Wheelimus]

Yeah, it really isn't even fair to bring race into this. People hate Barry Bonds because he's a jerk and he broke an incredibly high profile record that a ton of people care deeply about.

 

If Bonds were a retired player who held no records and we found out he cheated, nobody would give a damn beyond the media over-sensationalizing it for a few weeks.

 

Case in point, if Bonds would have retired prior to last season I do not think anyone would be talking about Barry Bonds. We damn sure aren't talking about Mark McGwire or Raffy.

[The Voice of Reason]

People that condem Bonds but support Ankiel are either racists or fools.

Yeah, you're completely right -- except the fact that Bonds is notoriously known for being one of the biggest jerks in the game of baseball (this coming from someone who faults Ankiel in this case more than he defends him).

 

 

Topics like these are why I really like coming to NSBB. You can say this is obvious and expected, but the general "tones" of the topic here compared to GWB are drastically different. It's really neat seeing perspectives from both sides of the spectrum.

 

I don't think anyone would disagree with you (outside of San Francisco) that Bonds is a jerk but despite the great job the authors of the Game of Shadows did documenting Bonds steroid use (mostly with circumstantial evidence), as far as I know, no one has ever tied him directly to the receipt of HGH. The same can't be said for the "Natural."

 

Sorry, I don't think "Jerks" should be held to a higher standard than "Fairy Tales."

[wade]

Yeah, it really isn't even fair to bring race into this. People hate Barry Bonds because he's a jerk and he broke an incredibly high profile record that a ton of people care deeply about.

 

If Bonds were a retired player who held no records and we found out he cheated, nobody would give a damn beyond the media over-sensationalizing it for a few weeks.

 

Case in point, if Bonds would have retired prior to last season I do not think anyone would be talking about Barry Bonds. We damn sure aren't talking about Mark McGwire or Raffy.

 

But, I can't discount race because people aren't talking about Raffy and Mac because they're not black.

 

You're completely right- the record plays a huge role. Maybe even 100%, I don't know. And maybe his jerk personality plays a role.

 

But, I can't help but wonder about race in this situation when the darkest dude catches the most heat.

 

In the NFL, black players are getting a pass when they get busted (Harrison, Merriman), so maybe that should set me at ease and let me know for sure it's the record or his personality or baseball's poetic higher standard even though the game's had cheaters since it started.

[B]

Yeah, it really isn't even fair to bring race into this. People hate Barry Bonds because he's a jerk and he broke an incredibly high profile record that a ton of people care deeply about.

 

If Bonds were a retired player who held no records and we found out he cheated, nobody would give a damn beyond the media over-sensationalizing it for a few weeks.

 

Case in point, if Bonds would have retired prior to last season I do not think anyone would be talking about Barry Bonds. We damn sure aren't talking about Mark McGwire or Raffy.

 

But, I can't discount race because people aren't talking about Raffy and Mac because they're not black.

 

You're completely right- the record plays a huge role. Maybe even 100%, I don't know. And maybe his jerk personality plays a role.

 

But, I can't help but wonder about race in this situation when the darkest dude catches the most heat.

 

In the NFL, black players are getting a pass when they get busted (Harrison, Merriman), so maybe that should set me at ease and let me know for sure it's the record or his personality or baseball's poetic higher standard even though the game's had cheaters since it started.

 

Ummm....they got suspended. What MLB player has been suspended for HGH?

[wade]

Yeah, it really isn't even fair to bring race into this. People hate Barry Bonds because he's a jerk and he broke an incredibly high profile record that a ton of people care deeply about.

 

If Bonds were a retired player who held no records and we found out he cheated, nobody would give a damn beyond the media over-sensationalizing it for a few weeks.

 

Case in point, if Bonds would have retired prior to last season I do not think anyone would be talking about Barry Bonds. We damn sure aren't talking about Mark McGwire or Raffy.

 

But, I can't discount race because people aren't talking about Raffy and Mac because they're not black.

 

You're completely right- the record plays a huge role. Maybe even 100%, I don't know. And maybe his jerk personality plays a role.

 

But, I can't help but wonder about race in this situation when the darkest dude catches the most heat.

 

In the NFL, black players are getting a pass when they get busted (Harrison, Merriman), so maybe that should set me at ease and let me know for sure it's the record or his personality or baseball's poetic higher standard even though the game's had cheaters since it started.

 

Ummm....they got suspended. What MLB player has been suspended for HGH?

 

I think Merriman was suspended for steroids.

 

When I say they "get a pass", I mean in the public perception. Yes, they are suspended for a 1/4 of the season. That is huge. It hurts their team.

 

But, Bob Costas doesn't have an Inside Sports special on their cheating. There are no books written about them. No one is calling for them to be banned for life.

 

All these things happen in baseball and more so to Bonds, in my observations.

 

Those NFL guys are treated during the suspensions about like they're out with an ankle sprain, not that they are god-awful cheaters keeping honest youngsters from ever getting a shot and teaching the world that it's o.k. to cheat your way to the top.

[Wheelimus]

Yeah, it really isn't even fair to bring race into this. People hate Barry Bonds because he's a jerk and he broke an incredibly high profile record that a ton of people care deeply about.

 

If Bonds were a retired player who held no records and we found out he cheated, nobody would give a damn beyond the media over-sensationalizing it for a few weeks.

 

Case in point, if Bonds would have retired prior to last season I do not think anyone would be talking about Barry Bonds. We damn sure aren't talking about Mark McGwire or Raffy.

 

But, I can't discount race because people aren't talking about Raffy and Mac because they're not black.

 

You're completely right- the record plays a huge role. Maybe even 100%, I don't know. And maybe his jerk personality plays a role.

 

But, I can't help but wonder about race in this situation when the darkest dude catches the most heat.

 

In the NFL, black players are getting a pass when they get busted (Harrison, Merriman), so maybe that should set me at ease and let me know for sure it's the record or his personality or baseball's poetic higher standard even though the game's had cheaters since it started.

 

I can only speak for myself, of course. I do not doubt that some peoples hatred is rooted in his race. Just like there is a very small percentage of Chicago Cubs fans whose hatred of Dusty Baker was rooted in his race. Probably you could even say that about Jacque Jones.

 

But I would hope that the percentage of baseball fans who dislike Barry Bonds for reasons other than his race would be in the mid to high 90's. At least I hope so. I don't need to lose anymore faith in the human race.

 

For me it's the record, that's it. He didn't take this heat when he broke the single season homerun record. And we certainly didn't need to see the smoking gun to know it was there. Why? Because nobody really cared about Mark McGwire. Same reason that we didn't care when McGwire broke the record the first time. Nobody really cared about Roger Maris. I guarantee you if that record had of belonged to an Aaron, or a Ruth, or a Mantle (someone iconic) McGwire would have gotten a lot more scrutiny when he broke the record. But otherwise it's just a fun fact. What really matters and what people really care about is the long haul. Sure, Neifi Perez probably holds the "greenies popped in 15 seconds" record, but what we care about is longevity! :D

 

To be serious though, I know growing up as a baseball fan I was told of Maris but I was indoctrinated with Aaron. My father spoke of that record like it was written on a stone tablet and handed to Moses.

 

So I think the reason Bonds gets so much hate is that there are so many reasons to hate him. He broke the untouchable record. Artificially. It wasn't supposed to be broken. People have lived their lives since Aaron took it just assuming they'd die with Aaron still the home run king. So obviously it doesn't help that he's a jerk, an apparent tax cheat, a bad husband, and so on and so on.

[wade]

Well said Wheelimus, and I do believe that the majority are upset about the record.

 

I'm not usually cynical about this kind of stuff, but I find myself wondering sometimes in this case- especially if Ankiel and Gibbons and whoever else tied to the pharmacy are downplayed for doing PEDs.

[NewUserName]

He has really hit the skids since the story broke. I think he has only 1 hit since Friday. Including 4 Ks today. I think it may be wrong to say he is mentally weak, but after what happened to him as a pitcher. He would seem to have a fragile psyche. Maybe this HGH allegations have hit his psyche again

[Prior4CyYoung]

He must have stopped using the HGH after the story came out lol.

[Sammy Sofa]

Seeing Ankiel strike out 4 times tonight in person was so sweet. The bleachers were giving him the business from batting practice onwards, and I was talking to my uncle before the game about how his increasing strikeouts and lack of walks were indicative of how his current swell would likely fall off once everyone "figures him out." I hope this is the start of the end of the "Ankiel era."

[The Voice of Reason]

Seeing Ankiel strike out 4 times tonight in person was so sweet. The bleachers were giving him the business from batting practice onwards, and I was talking to my uncle before the game about how his increasing strikeouts and lack of walks were indicative of how his current swell would likely fall off once everyone "figures him out." I hope this is the start of the end of the "Ankiel era."

 

Any creative or clever Ankiel abuse? Please share with the class.

[Cubfanintheknow]

Any creative or clever Ankiel abuse? Please share with the class.

 

I listened to part of the game on the radio and it sounded as if the fans were chanting "H-G-H" every time Ankiel stepped to the plate.

 

It doesn't surprise me that a guy who had "mental problems" and suddenly couldn't throw strikes would now buckle under the pressure of the controversy.

[Sammy Sofa]

Any creative or clever Ankiel abuse? Please share with the class.

 

I listened to part of the game on the radio and it sounded as if the fans were chanting "H-G-H" every time Ankiel stepped to the plate.

 

It doesn't surprise me that a guy who had "mental problems" and suddenly couldn't throw strikes would now buckle under the pressure of the controversy.

 

Yeah, pretty much just boo's and "H-G-H" and "cheeeeeeeeeeaterrrrrrr" a la "Daaaaaaaaarrrrrrryllllll" and then thunderous appluase and cheers when he'd strike out. A lovely symphony.

[gflore34]

Len and Bob were talking about busting him inside, does he have a hole in his swing? Was it possible to see this from stands?