Ankiel and HGH

[The Voice of Reason]

Here's the only excuse I've ever given. I know that if I could take HGH or testosterone and it would help me play better, I would do it. I would do it because it could be the difference in 20 homers a year and 40 homers a year. The difference between those two are millions and millions of dollars.

 

Would you also teach your kids it's OK to cheat their way through college so they could get better grades and presumably a higher paying job? Or to trade on inside information in violation of the securities laws because it would allow them to make a great deal of money?

 

Absolutely not, but those aren't games meant for public enjoyment.[/quote]

 

So you would be OK teaching your kids that being unethical, not following the rules and cheating is OK as long as it's in a "game meant for public enjoyment" and it allowed them to make a lot of money?

 

Not the lesson I would want to teach my kids but hey to each his own.

 

Let me ask you a question.

 

Imagine you are a 24 year old minor league pitcher. You know the only thing keeping you from becoming a major leaguer is a better fastball. If you thought you could take something that would give you an extra 5-8mph on your fastball and get you to the big leagues, would you take it or just continue to toil in the minors for no money knowing you're not going to make it?

 

Would I place fame and fortune above honesty and integrity?

 

NO, I couldn't live with myself. I would hang up the cleats and find a way to make a honest living. I'd have less money but at least when I talked to my kids about values like honesty and integrity I could look them in the eye and wouldn't be a hypochrite.

 

Now how about answering my question.

 

Sure. What's the question?

 

So you would be OK teaching your kids that being unethical, not following the rules and cheating is OK as long as it's in a "game meant for public enjoyment" and it allowed them to make a lot of money?

 

No, I wouldn't teach them that.

 

Oh I see. Your one of those do as I say not as I do guys.

 

Not a walk the talk guy like me. Oh well like I said to each his own.

 

I guess if you just want to speak in generalities. I can own up to having made mistakes and bad decisions. But hey, the rest of us can't be perfect right?

 

I don't think someone that doesn't advocate cheating in order to make more money (like you do) and isn't a hypochrite to their kids makes them perfect.

 

BTW, do you think Ankiel will own up to having made mistakes and bad decisions like you or will he follow McGwire's lead?

[illiniguy]

I also don't know if it is just a coincidence or not, but man Tony Larussa seems to be around a lot of this. The bash brothers, McGwire chasing Maris, and Ankiel.

[BigbadB]

Bob, I get the sense that that's the rub with you and others and I dig it. But, in my neighborhood alone I can probably find several guys who have either cheated on their wife or on their taxes or on a test when they were in school. Those people get a pass because they're not ball players? I don't want to judge them that severely and I don't think they teach their kids to do what they may have done and now regret.

 

Who is Bob?

[The Voice of Reason]

Here's the only excuse I've ever given. I know that if I could take HGH or testosterone and it would help me play better, I would do it. I would do it because it could be the difference in 20 homers a year and 40 homers a year. The difference between those two are millions and millions of dollars.

 

Would you also teach your kids it's OK to cheat their way through college so they could get better grades and presumably a higher paying job? Or to trade on inside information in violation of the securities laws because it would allow them to make a great deal of money?

 

Absolutely not, but those aren't games meant for public enjoyment.[/quote]

 

So you would be OK teaching your kids that being unethical, not following the rules and cheating is OK as long as it's in a "game meant for public enjoyment" and it allowed them to make a lot of money?

 

Not the lesson I would want to teach my kids but hey to each his own.

 

Let me ask you a question.

 

Imagine you are a 24 year old minor league pitcher. You know the only thing keeping you from becoming a major leaguer is a better fastball. If you thought you could take something that would give you an extra 5-8mph on your fastball and get you to the big leagues, would you take it or just continue to toil in the minors for no money knowing you're not going to make it?

 

Would I place fame and fortune above honesty and integrity?

 

NO, I couldn't live with myself. I would hang up the cleats and find a way to make a honest living. I'd have less money but at least when I talked to my kids about values like honesty and integrity I could look them in the eye and wouldn't be a hypochrite.

 

Now how about answering my question.

 

Sure. What's the question?

 

So you would be OK teaching your kids that being unethical, not following the rules and cheating is OK as long as it's in a "game meant for public enjoyment" and it allowed them to make a lot of money?

 

No, I wouldn't teach them that.

 

Oh I see. Your one of those do as I say not as I do guys.

 

Not a walk the talk guy like me. Oh well like I said to each his own.

 

I guess if you just want to speak in generalities. I can own up to having made mistakes and bad decisions. But hey, the rest of us can't be perfect right?

 

I don't think someone that doesn't advocate cheating in order to make more money (like you do) and isn't a hypochrite to their kids makes them perfect.

 

BTW, do you think Ankiel will own up to having made mistakes and bad decisions like you or will he follow McGwire's lead?

[NonProfitCow]

I don't think someone that doesn't advocate cheating in order to make more money (like you do) and isn't a hypochrite to their kids makes them perfect.

 

BTW, do you think Ankiel will own up to having made mistakes and bad decisions like you or will he follow McGwire's lead?

 

I think that you should read the thread again, because I am not advocating cheating in any way. I will flat out say that it is wrong. However, I have stated that I understand why guys use PED's and I probably would as well. Again, not advocating it, just saying I would do it.

 

I think that Ankiel will say that it was a long time ago and he was wrong for having used it.

[wade]

Bob, I get the sense that that's the rub with you and others and I dig it. But, in my neighborhood alone I can probably find several guys who have either cheated on their wife or on their taxes or on a test when they were in school. Those people get a pass because they're not ball players? I don't want to judge them that severely and I don't think they teach their kids to do what they may have done and now regret.

 

Who is Bob?

 

I thought the last B stood for Bob! I don't know why, but I've always thought that and now realize I have no idea why. :D

[Faceman]

BTW, do you think Ankiel will own up to having made mistakes and bad decisions like you or will he follow McGwire's lead?

 

Give me a break. Did Sosa, or Palmeiro, or anyone do this?

 

Why does Ankiel get burdened with it? He needs to come out with an apology for a report? It hasn't even been investigated yet.

 

Stunning conviction within 24 hours of first report. Stunning.

[BigbadB]

Bob, I get the sense that that's the rub with you and others and I dig it. But, in my neighborhood alone I can probably find several guys who have either cheated on their wife or on their taxes or on a test when they were in school. Those people get a pass because they're not ball players? I don't want to judge them that severely and I don't think they teach their kids to do what they may have done and now regret.

 

Who is Bob?

 

I thought the last B stood for Bob! I don't know why, but I've always thought that and now realize I have no idea why. :D

 

Well, my name does start with a B, so you were close. :D

 

It's Brian.

[JoshiQ]

Gah. My eyes. Can we stop quoting like thirty posts when replying? 2-3 is more than enough.

[JoshiQ]

Bob, I get the sense that that's the rub with you and others and I dig it. But, in my neighborhood alone I can probably find several guys who have either cheated on their wife or on their taxes or on a test when they were in school. Those people get a pass because they're not ball players? I don't want to judge them that severely and I don't think they teach their kids to do what they may have done and now regret.

 

Who is Bob?

 

I thought the last B stood for Bob! I don't know why, but I've always thought that and now realize I have no idea why. :D

 

Well, my name does start with a B, so you were close. :D

 

It's Brian.

 

Big Bad Bob sounds scarier.

[XZero771679666304]

BTW, do you think Ankiel will own up to having made mistakes and bad decisions like you or will he follow McGwire's lead?

 

Give me a break. Did Sosa, or Palmeiro, or anyone do this?

 

Why does Ankiel get burdened with it? He needs to come out with an apology for a report? It hasn't even been investigated yet.

 

Stunning conviction within 24 hours of first report. Stunning.

 

What would Palmeiro say? He was caught lying. He ran like a scalded dog. Sosa was never caught, or even linked to PED's (though most people have little doubt he used them).

 

Ankiel's reputation is kaput. Whether he used them or not, when he used them, etc. are sadly irrelevant at this point. The same applies to Glaus. Of course the players probably all know better, but as far a the media and public are concerned it's a done deal. People suspect everyone, and clamor for even a shred of evidence. Unfortunately, this constitutes far more than a shred.

 

All that warm, fuzzy comeback story mojo? Gone.

 

Sad but true.

[ManCrushOnNomar]

I also don't know if it is just a coincidence or not, but man Tony Larussa seems to be around a lot of this. The bash brothers, McGwire chasing Maris, and Ankiel.

That was my first thought. I was reading the story with my wife (a Cardinals fan) and the first thing I said was "wow, this happened under the eagle-eye watch of Tony LaRussa?"

 

Maybe silly coincidence, but who knows.

[UBlink]

The 3 things it helps most with an athlete:

 

Increase energy and stamina

Build muscle and strength, improve fitness

Accelerate healing

 

Slate[/url]"]Growth hormone may not lengthen your lifespan, but it can certainly improve your looks. (While HGH isn't as bad for you as anabolic steroids, it does have some minor side effects. Click here for more information.)

 

That doesn't mean very much for athletes: A chiseled physique won't help you hit a baseball or throw a punch. So far, no one has been able to connect the increase in lean body tissue caused by HGH with enhancement of athletic performance. Unlike steroids, growth hormone hasn't been shown to increase weight-lifting ability; in the lab, it has a greater effect on muscle definition than muscle strength. And it doesn't seem to help much with cardiovascular fitness, either.

 

So, why do so many athletes take HGH? One possibility is that the drug really does enhance performance but that the effect is too subtle to measure in a controlled setting. An elite athlete might be able to detect very slight improvements in strength and agility that would be invisible to lab scientists or statistical tests. At the highest levels of sport, a tiny edge can make a big difference. Athletes might also derive some added benefit by mixing HGH with other drugs—anti-aging doctors often prescribe growth hormone in combination with testosterone.

 

It's also possible that baseball players aren't using HGH to beef up at all. Almost everyone who gets caught red-handed claims they were using the drug to recover from an injury. This might be more than a ploy to win sympathy: Some doctors believe that growth hormone can speed up tissue repair. There isn't much clinical work to support this idea, however. One study even found that HGH actually shortened the lifespan of patients in an intensive-care unit.

 

The most likely reason that athletes use HGH, though, is superstition. A ballplayer might shoot up with HGH for the same reason we take vitamin C when we have a cold: There's no good reason to think it does anything, but we're willing to give it a try. The fact that the major sports leagues have banned growth hormone only encourages the idea that the drug has tangible benefits. Why would they ban something unless it worked?

[BigbadB]

Big Bad Bob sounds scarier.

 

Oh yeah? How 'bout I come over to your house and kick......

 

Ah, nevermind. BigbadB is an actual nickname, thus the screen name. I'm not necessarily big (6'1) and I'm not necessarily bad (I don't have a record of any kind), but someone threw BigbadB against the wall one day and it stuck.

 

Ironically, I went into a bar one day and a guy who barely knows me and most assuredly doesn't know the people who call me BigbadB said "hey BigbadB" to me one day when I walked in.

 

Apparently, I look like someone people like to call BigbadB.

 

That's my life story and I'm sticking to it.

 

Now that my life story is known, people may not be nearly as intimidated by me now that they know I'm not really all that big or bad, but all I have to say to that is.........

 

Modzilla is a very dear friend of mine.

Edited September 7, 2007 by BigbadB

[reggiemiller rules]

I also don't know if it is just a coincidence or not, but man Tony Larussa seems to be around a lot of this. The bash brothers, McGwire chasing Maris, and Ankiel.

That was my first thought. I was reading the story with my wife (a Cardinals fan) and the first thing I said was "wow, this happened under the eagle-eye watch of Tony LaRussa?"

 

Maybe silly coincidence, but who knows.

 

Well this would have happened when Ankiel was in spring training down in Florida. So it would be pretty hard for Larussa to know what he was doing down there.

[ManCrushOnNomar]

I also don't know if it is just a coincidence or not, but man Tony Larussa seems to be around a lot of this. The bash brothers, McGwire chasing Maris, and Ankiel.

That was my first thought. I was reading the story with my wife (a Cardinals fan) and the first thing I said was "wow, this happened under the eagle-eye watch of Tony LaRussa?"

 

Maybe silly coincidence, but who knows.

 

Well this would have happened when Ankiel was in spring training down in Florida. So it would be pretty hard for Larussa to know what he was doing down there.

Pretty sure TLR goes with the team to Spring Training in Jupiter.

[Fro]

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's still on something... his comeback has been pretty unnatural.

 

LaRussa can't get a free pass for letting this go on at this point either, and one could speculate that the fact that bad players go to the Cards and suddenly get good is more than just dumb luck.

[illiniguy]

I also don't know if it is just a coincidence or not, but man Tony Larussa seems to be around a lot of this. The bash brothers, McGwire chasing Maris, and Ankiel.

That was my first thought. I was reading the story with my wife (a Cardinals fan) and the first thing I said was "wow, this happened under the eagle-eye watch of Tony LaRussa?"

 

Maybe silly coincidence, but who knows.

 

Well this would have happened when Ankiel was in spring training down in Florida. So it would be pretty hard for Larussa to know what he was doing down there.

This is true, it just seems like that LaRussa is always around the crap. I wonder if he knew Chris Benoit. LOL.

[The Voice of Reason]

I also don't know if it is just a coincidence or not, but man Tony Larussa seems to be around a lot of this. The bash brothers, McGwire chasing Maris, and Ankiel.

That was my first thought. I was reading the story with my wife (a Cardinals fan) and the first thing I said was "wow, this happened under the eagle-eye watch of Tony LaRussa?"

 

Maybe silly coincidence, but who knows.

 

Well this would have happened when Ankiel was in spring training down in Florida. So it would be pretty hard for Larussa to know what he was doing down there.

 

I'll say, you can't expect a guy that spends spring training going on drunken benders and passing out behind the wheel of the car he is driving to know what is going on with his team. :lol:

[Chocolate Milk]

lol. From the ESPN comments section:

 

 

INGY_BINGLEBOP (9/8/2007 at 12:00 AM)

 

ANKIEL, I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU. YOU ARE NOW A STEROID USER JUST LIKE JOSE CANSECO AND BARRY BONDS. YOU SIGNED A BASEBALL FOR MY SON, BUT AFTER THIS NEWS GAME OUT, WE WENT OUTSIDE AND BURNED THE BASEBALL. EVERY BASEBALL CARD YOU HAVE EVER MADE, IT IS GOING TO BE BURNED. YOU HAVE RUINED THE GAME OF BASEBALL IN THIS HOUSEHOLD. I HOPE YOU LIVE WITH THIS IN YOUR SOUL.

[Soul]

lol. From the ESPN comments section:

 

 

INGY_BINGLEBOP (9/8/2007 at 12:00 AM)

 

ANKIEL, I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU. YOU ARE NOW A STEROID USER JUST LIKE JOSE CANSECO AND BARRY BONDS. YOU SIGNED A BASEBALL FOR MY SON, BUT AFTER THIS NEWS GAME OUT, WE WENT OUTSIDE AND BURNED THE BASEBALL. EVERY BASEBALL CARD YOU HAVE EVER MADE, IT IS GOING TO BE BURNED. YOU HAVE RUINED THE GAME OF BASEBALL IN THIS HOUSEHOLD. I HOPE YOU LIVE WITH THIS IN YOUR SOUL.

 

He's right!!

 

No, J/K.

 

I definitely got a chuckle thinking about some Cards fan going out back and burning baseball cards of Ankiel. LOL.

[CuseCubFan69]

lol. From the ESPN comments section:

 

 

INGY_BINGLEBOP (9/8/2007 at 12:00 AM)

 

ANKIEL, I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU. YOU ARE NOW A STEROID USER JUST LIKE JOSE CANSECO AND BARRY BONDS. YOU SIGNED A BASEBALL FOR MY SON, BUT AFTER THIS NEWS GAME OUT, WE WENT OUTSIDE AND BURNED THE BASEBALL. EVERY BASEBALL CARD YOU HAVE EVER MADE, IT IS GOING TO BE BURNED. YOU HAVE RUINED THE GAME OF BASEBALL IN THIS HOUSEHOLD. I HOPE YOU LIVE WITH THIS IN YOUR SOUL.

 

He's right!!

 

No, J/K.

 

I definitely got a chuckle thinking about some Cards fan going out back and burning baseball cards of Ankiel. LOL.

 

I'm sure he was sober at the time too.

[RynoRules]

I wonder if that guy has ever done anything wrong in his life. To get that upset over baseball is a bit over the top.

[rocket]

lol. From the ESPN comments section:

 

 

INGY_BINGLEBOP (9/8/2007 at 12:00 AM)

 

ANKIEL, I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU. YOU ARE NOW A STEROID USER JUST LIKE JOSE CANSECO AND BARRY BONDS. YOU SIGNED A BASEBALL FOR MY SON, BUT AFTER THIS NEWS GAME OUT, WE WENT OUTSIDE AND BURNED THE BASEBALL. EVERY BASEBALL CARD YOU HAVE EVER MADE, IT IS GOING TO BE BURNED. YOU HAVE RUINED THE GAME OF BASEBALL IN THIS HOUSEHOLD. I HOPE YOU LIVE WITH THIS IN YOUR SOUL.

 

He's right!!

 

No, J/K.

 

I definitely got a chuckle thinking about some Cards fan going out back and burning baseball cards of Ankiel. LOL.

 

it's probably cubbette's cousin in st. louis

[The Voice of Reason]

Boy was the Ankiel "press conference" a joke. Way to dodge the tough questions Rick and hide behind doctor/client privledge. Obviously he didn't learn anything from the McGwire fiasco and Ankiel can't use the "under oath" excuse.

 

All he had to do to get the benefit of the doubt was answer a couple of easy and direct questions but instead evaded them. I wonder why? He claims do have done nothing illegal.

 

Why did Ankiel receive medical treatment from a physician who wasn't affiliated with the team?

 

Why did he receive care from a doctor who's under investigation for writing prescriptions to athletes he's never met?

 

Why pick up medicine from a shady clinic if it were prescribed by a licensed physician?

 

"That's just the way it happened," The Natural said. I really don't have any further statements about this."

 

If the Natural can't be a man and answer the easy questions, what happens when he starts getting the hard ones?