Trachsel a Cub (this should be fun)

[Chocolate Milk]

Why do people get so defensive when others rightfully point out that Trachsel isn't very good?

[sethuel1]

Why do people get so defensive when others rightfully point out that Trachsel isn't very good?

because the people that point that out hate the cubs

[A New Era]

Trachsel will get a start here or there as the cubs will go with a matchup dictaded six man rotation for september. According to cubs.com.

 

This actually isn't so bad. I don't mind him getting a spot start here and there to keep the main guys fresh for a potential playoff push. Replacing anyone besides Marquis in the rotation is silly though.

 

The way rothschild worded it. It's about giving some guys some rest, but more about matchups. It will be interesting to guess day in and day out "who's gonna start today"? Should be fun. 8-)

[Outshined_One]

Moore and Cherry? Seriously?

 

Cripes...what a stupid, stupid move.

[CUBZ99]

Moore and Cherry? Seriously?

 

Cripes...what a stupid, stupid move.

 

Both had no future with the Cubs. I don't see what the big deal is.

[Illini Iceman]

Why do people get so defensive when others rightfully point out that Trachsel isn't very good?

 

Why do people get so defensive when others rightfully point out that he is not awful?

 

But to answer your question, it is probably because it is tiring to constantly see every trade here analyzed by certain people from a perspective that vastly overvalues the Cubs assets and undervalues anything received in return.

 

C'mon, Cherry, Moore, Rapada, Blevins? This is all just minor league roster filler. These aren't bona fide prospects.

[CoolHandLuke]

minor league roster filler becomes major league roster filler. And Trachsel does pretty much suck.

[Illini Iceman]

minor league roster filler becomes major league roster filler. And Trachsel does pretty much suck.

 

No more than Moore and Cherry do. And I don't want the major league roster filled with guys that are marginal AAA players.

 

As great as Cherry and Moore are I wonder how they made it through waivers?

 

Typical September deal - mediocre veteran to a contender in exchange for mediocre prospects.

[CubinNY]

 

Typical September deal - mediocre veteran to a contender in exchange for mediocre prospects.

 

Steve hasn't seen mediocre for a couple of years.

 

It's not about who the Cubs gave up, it's about who they got.

 

I'd rather they gave Cherry and Moore to Baltimore and gotten back a signed autograph of Cal Ripken and Jim Palmer to put in the Diner in CF.

[Chocolate Milk]

Why do people get so defensive when others rightfully point out that Trachsel isn't very good?

 

Why do people get so defensive when others rightfully point out that he is not awful?

 

No one has done this

 

 

C'mon, Cherry, Moore, Rapada, Blevins? This is all just minor league roster filler. These aren't bona fide prospects.

 

I agree. Still the trade doesn't make a whole lot of sense and Trachsel isn't good.

[A New Era]

Why do people get so defensive when others rightfully point out that Trachsel isn't very good?

 

Why do people get so defensive when others rightfully point out that he is not awful?

 

No one has done this

 

 

C'mon, Cherry, Moore, Rapada, Blevins? This is all just minor league roster filler. These aren't bona fide prospects.

 

I agree. Still the trade doesn't make a whole lot of sense and Trachsel isn't good.

 

He has been good in august. Where as Kendall was cold and improved, maybe trach is hot and can stay hot? I kinda trust our scouting guys this year. They've hit the nail on the head most of the time.

[Derwood]

Just like the Kendall and Monroe deals, i'm going to reserve judgment until i see some numbers in a Cubs uniform. then, when he plays better than he did with his old team, i can laugh at you all and quote all your hilarious hyperbole

[abuck1220]

Feel free to check the numbers yourself.

 

WHIP over 1.50 and absolutely ridiculously terrible K/BB, what else needs to be checked? He's awful. He was awful last year with an ERA of nearly 5, he was over 5 this year until he started getting lucky in August. He still can't strike anybody out, he's walking more than he strikes out and giving up too many baserunners.

 

He's awful.

Again, he's a number 3 or 4 starter if you compare him to his peers. That's not awful. This is pretty simple, I don't understand what's so hard to understand about it.

 

honest question...if you really think trachsel is a 3-4, what do you consider rich hill?

[badnews]

Trachsel's strikeout-to-walk ratio is one of the worst in baseball history. He's pure crap. Sorry, there is no pitcher with 24 more walks than strikeouts, a righthander with a K/9 of 2.88, a WHIP above 1.50, and a G/F ratio below 1.50 that is any good at all. None. Dig through the stats and see if you can find one to prove me wrong. You can't.

 

A K/BB ratio of 0.65 is trash. No good pitcher has that. You've got to be kidding.

 

As for talking about giving up Moore and Cherry is "nothing," that's more than the Phillies gave up for Jamie Moyer, that's more than they gave up for Kyle Lohse, it's more than the Dodgers gave up for Greg Maddux, it's more than the Mets gave up for Kris Benson, it's more than the Rockies gave up for Mark Redman, it's more than the A's gave up for Joe Kennedy, basically, except for maybe David Wells at the deadline, it's more given up than any comparable pitcher at the deadline the past few years.

 

The Cubs always get cheated on these spare parts deals. You can bet when we're shopping pitching as shitty as Trachsel, we won't get a deal as good as this one. Heck, the proposed Jacque Jones deal that would've had us pay most of his salary and get no one in return wouldn't (reportedly) have netted us anyone as good as the Tigers got from Monroe.

 

People don't understand - the Cubs get ripped off on these deals more than any other team. Other teams don't give up one of their top prospects for these guys, and sadly, Moore was a top prospect in this club.

 

Let me put it this way - the Padres had to give up nothing to acquire Morgan Ensberg and Marcus Giles this year. If it were the Cubs after those guys they'd probably be out 4 prospects.

 

In conclusion, Trachsel is crap. If he pitches well, it's just a fluke, like Eric Milton pitching well or Jay Payton getting traded to the A's from the Red Sox and hitting like a monster for 40 days.

[SouthSideRyan]

FTR, Scott Moore was only 23 in AAA, certainly not old for his level. I couldn't care less about dumping Cherry, but trading away Moore stings.

[BCVM22]

Let me put it this way - the Padres had to give up nothing to acquire Morgan Ensberg and Marcus Giles this year. If it were the Cubs after those guys they'd probably be out 4 prospects.

 

I don't strictly disagree with you, but keep in mind that Ensberg was designated for assignment and Giles was non-tendered completely. Trachsel was neither and still on Baltimore's active roster and therefore the Cubs couldn't just pull him off the scrap heap for a pittance.

[badnews]

Neither would have been I imagine if a GM had fallen over themselves to get fleeced like Hendry's been doing.

 

As I've said, I can't think of a pitcher of Trachsel's level traded for so much the past few years. The Phillies didn't give up a prospect of Moore's ranking to us in the Jamie Moyer trade, or the Kyle Lohse trade for that matter.

 

Looking at this, if the Cubs were interested in Jamie Moyer Hendry would've probably played hardball for two seconds before handing over Sean Gallagher.

[jjgman21]

not fond of the trade, but it's always frustrating to see a group of ordinarily rational people lose all sense of reality when it comes to evaluating a player that is coming to the Cubs.

 

Trachsel had a 4.13 ERA in April and a 2.84 ERA in May, so let's dispense with the myth that his league average ERA+ (which usually means above average ERA+ for a starter) is the product of one 'lucky' August.

 

not that his strikeout total this year instills confidence, but Trachsel has never had good peripherals, yet only twice over the past 12 years has he has an ERA+ below 92 (one of them last year when coming off a near season long injury). so either he has figured out a way to keep runs from crossing the plate despite bad peripherals, or he's been on the longest 'lucky' streak in the history of baseball.

 

basically Trachsel is the definition of average starting pitcher. career ERA+ of 101, not a season below 87 since 1995, not a season above 116 since 1996. yet so many are trying to make the guy out as the second coming of Willie Banks. it's truly absurd.

[frostwyrm]

Not a terrible move. Moore and Cherry were expendable. We have Marquis, Marshall, and sometimes Z getting knocked out of games early so a long reliever is desirable. Apparently Hendry wasn't confident he could get a long reliever from the farm right away.

[Backtobanks]

Trachsel's strikeout-to-walk ratio is one of the worst in baseball history. He's pure crap. Sorry, there is no pitcher with 24 more walks than strikeouts, a righthander with a K/9 of 2.88, a WHIP above 1.50, and a G/F ratio below 1.50 that is any good at all. None. Dig through the stats and see if you can find one to prove me wrong. You can't.

 

A K/BB ratio of 0.65 is trash. No good pitcher has that. You've got to be kidding.

 

As for talking about giving up Moore and Cherry is "nothing," that's more than the Phillies gave up for Jamie Moyer, that's more than they gave up for Kyle Lohse, it's more than the Dodgers gave up for Greg Maddux, it's more than the Mets gave up for Kris Benson, it's more than the Rockies gave up for Mark Redman, it's more than the A's gave up for Joe Kennedy, basically, except for maybe David Wells at the deadline, it's more given up than any comparable pitcher at the deadline the past few years.

 

The Cubs always get cheated on these spare parts deals. You can bet when we're shopping pitching as shitty as Trachsel, we won't get a deal as good as this one. Heck, the proposed Jacque Jones deal that would've had us pay most of his salary and get no one in return wouldn't (reportedly) have netted us anyone as good as the Tigers got from Monroe.

 

People don't understand - the Cubs get ripped off on these deals more than any other team. Other teams don't give up one of their top prospects for these guys, and sadly, Moore was a top prospect in this club.

 

Let me put it this way - the Padres had to give up nothing to acquire Morgan Ensberg and Marcus Giles this year. If it were the Cubs after those guys they'd probably be out 4 prospects.

 

In conclusion, Trachsel is crap. If he pitches well, it's just a fluke, like Eric Milton pitching well or Jay Payton getting traded to the A's from the Red Sox and hitting like a monster for 40 days.

 

Moore was a top prospect for the Cubs????? Moore wasn't even going to get called up this week. Both Cherry and Moore are old AAA players who had no future with the Cubs. To put it another way, if Trachsel wins 2 games this month the deal would be considered a steal. If he wins 1 game, that would be fine because Cherry and Moore weren't going to contribute anything this month. Also, consider the fact that this was a 30-day rental, because Trachsel, Moore, and Cherry wouldn't be part of the 2008 plans anyhow.

[BigbadB]

Strange argument. I'm shocked that anyone finds this deal to be a bad one. If Marquis and/or Lilly goes down to some sort of fluke injury, who gets inserted into the rotation? Some unproven arm? Some bullpen guy who would need weeks to get stretched out to 5 innings or more?

 

Tracshel is a safety valve, if nothing more.

 

He was also one of the better arms available at the deadline. Is it better to have him on your own roster or on a team that you might be playing in the playoffs?

 

St. Louis sure could have used him. He's probably better than Kip Wells.

 

I like Scott Moore, but there isn't a place for him in Chicago. Giving up Cherry hurts a little more, but no matter who traded for Tracshel, someone was going to have to give something up to get him.

[SouthSideRyan]

SCOTT MOORE IS NOT OLD FOR AAA.

[NCCubFan]

I think it's a good idea as long as Hendry sticks to his word and uses Trachsel as a safety valve rather than replacing a current starter. If he wins one game for the Cubs as a 6th starter in the St. Louis DH that could make all the difference in the world in a tight race.

[BigbadB]

I think he also provides a safety valve in the event a starter has a bad outing. Instead of burning out the bullpen for 8 innings, you can use Tracshel.

 

Every game is important from this point forward, but it's also important to be able to provide a bit of rest for the starters and the bullpen when the situation arises.

[Guest]

my take - meh

 

I'm not a big fan of Trachsel and I think he's got a better chance to be awful than great. He's probably more likely to be below average than average, too. But he's not a bad addition to the roster for Sept as a "just in case" kind of thing. It should also be noted that Marshall has been very injury-prone through his career and is probably already extending his career high IP as a pro. I don't mind moving him to the pen for the rest of sept or at least letting him skip a start here and there for that reason alone.

 

As for Moore and Cherry, here is the prelim list of top 30 prospects in the system that Raisin, O_O and I debated the other day (8-24 minor league game thread):

 

So if we're taking early nominations for next year's top 30 list, we have:

 

Iowa

 

Soto

EP

Gallagher

Petrick

Hart

 

Tennessee

 

Colvin

Reynolds

Veal

Atkins

Shark

Roquet

 

Daytona

 

Clevenger

Dope

 

Peoria

 

Castillo

Barney

Renshaw

Hernandez

Ceda

Dolis

Russell

 

Boise

 

Donaldson

Thomas

Rosa

Burke

Rundle

Huseby

Acosta

Tolentino

Cabrera

 

Arizona

 

Anderson

Carlos Perez

Marwin Gonzalez

Vitters

Oswaldo Martinez

Cedric Redmond

Larry Suarez

 

DSL

 

Jeffry Antigua

 

Given that neither Moore nor Cherry was receiving consideration for the top 30 prospects in the system, I don't feel it is a great loss. But both guys have a slight chance of being good enough one day to cause us regret. I'm just hoping that we'll use the extra 40 man slots this winter wisely.