4/10 Post Game Thread: Come on

[UMFan83]

bad - cubs lose

good - i was right not to overreact about marquis (unlike everyone else)

 

How?

 

1.60 WHIP

5.40 ERA

 

That's flat out terrible.

 

Woah there sparky, three errors and a horrible day in the field should also be factored into account on those stats. I bet Lou is going to have a field day with this kind of effort... YIKES! Hate to be in the locker room.

 

You understand that errors don't contribute to ERA or WHIP, right?

 

No they don't but without the errors, one could make a case that his ERA could have been lowered just by virtue of pitching deeper in the game. The errors extended the innings and raised his pitch count which contributed to Marquis only pitching 5 innings. That's what he's saying.

 

Bah..he could have pitched longer and given up 5 more runs too. The what-if game is a dangerous game. Lets go on what he actually did.

 

 

well, what he actually did was keep the team in the game.

 

I agree! He did! He did keep his team in the game.

 

So if the offense scored 7 runs and he allowed 10, did he do a good job of 'keeping his team in the game'?

 

that's different and you know it

 

It's the same type of logic though. Kevin Millwood won the AL ERA title in 2005 with a 2.86 ERA but he was only 9-11 for the Indians....does that mean he did a poor job that year? No he did a fantastic job that year. Meanwhile, Randy Johnson goes 17-11 with a 5.00 ERA last year. Did he do something special that allowed him to "keep his team in the game"? Is it because the Yankees have a great offense that he's allowed to throw up a meatball every once in awhile?

[Derwood]

bad - cubs lose

good - i was right not to overreact about marquis (unlike everyone else)

 

How?

 

1.60 WHIP

5.40 ERA

 

That's flat out terrible.

 

Woah there sparky, three errors and a horrible day in the field should also be factored into account on those stats. I bet Lou is going to have a field day with this kind of effort... YIKES! Hate to be in the locker room.

 

You understand that errors don't contribute to ERA or WHIP, right?

 

No they don't but without the errors, one could make a case that his ERA could have been lowered just by virtue of pitching deeper in the game. The errors extended the innings and raised his pitch count which contributed to Marquis only pitching 5 innings. That's what he's saying.

 

Bah..he could have pitched longer and given up 5 more runs too. The what-if game is a dangerous game. Lets go on what he actually did.

 

 

well, what he actually did was keep the team in the game.

 

I agree! He did! He did keep his team in the game.

 

So if the offense scored 7 runs and he allowed 10, did he do a good job of 'keeping his team in the game'?

 

that's different and you know it

 

It's the same type of logic though. Kevin Millwood won the AL ERA title in 2005 with a 2.86 ERA but he was only 9-11 for the Indians....does that mean he did a poor job that year? No he did a fantastic job that year. Meanwhile, Randy Johnson goes 17-11 with a 5.00 ERA last year. Did he do something special that allowed him to "keep his team in the game"? Is it because the Yankees have a great offense that he's allowed to throw up a meatball every once in awhile?

 

and I would argue that Millwood had the better year. What I'm saying though is that in the 10-7 scenario you proposed, no one would say anyone was keeping the team in the game. It's a faulty argument, and one that doesn't disprove the fact that Marquis held the Astros down (after making his own mess) whle the Cubs did nothing at all to get back in teh game

[gflore34]

I'm as fustrated as anyone however, realtive to last season there is far too much quality in this lineup. They're, to borrow a term from Hockey, gonna get her going, its not like were talking of a lineup with Slappy and Perez hitting 1&2 along with whatever crap Dusty decided to pencil in at 1B. I still believe 1-7 this is the best lineup in the NL Central, they'll bare it out.

[oldstyle81]

the main problem is Soriano isint getting on base enough, once he starts hitting that will change

 

Marquis wasant great today but he wasant dreadful either. He kept us in the game and if it wasant for slappy Jr, the score wouldve only been 3-0

 

That change up Guzman threw to K Lee was pretty good in my opinon. Lee was miles ahead of that pitch

[BigbadB]

BTW, would you really care if Marquis won 20 games with a 5.40 ERA and 1.60 WHIP? I sure wouldn't.

 

Personally, I'd be furious that the Cubs left a starter in all year long that couldn't provide better numbers than that. I don't care if they have to promote Veal or Gallagher to make it happen.

 

5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP is for AAA, not the major leagues.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

BTW, would you really care if Marquis won 20 games with a 5.40 ERA and 1.60 WHIP? I sure wouldn't.

 

Personally, I'd be furious that the Cubs left a starter in all year long that couldn't provide better numbers than that. I don't care if they have to promote Veal or Gallagher to make it happen.

 

5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP is for AAA, not the major leagues.

 

I believe that's actually the definition of "status quo".

[98navigator]

BTW, would you really care if Marquis won 20 games with a 5.40 ERA and 1.60 WHIP? I sure wouldn't.

 

Personally, I'd be furious that the Cubs left a starter in all year long that couldn't provide better numbers than that. I don't care if they have to promote Veal or Gallagher to make it happen.

 

5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP is for AAA, not the major leagues.

 

 

LOL, if Marquis was winning those games (20) there would be no movement at all. There would be constant talk of his ability to "grit" out starts and put the team in position to win. :wink: Who could argue with the results?

[3Dog]

In his pre-game and post-game comments, Lou expressed that the Cubs' lineup may not exactly be suited to hitting in cold-weather conditions.

 

I'll leave the "this is/isn't an excuse" debate to others. The point I want to make is that if Lou believes this then he should strongly consider tweaking the order. Until it gets warmer, move the low-OBP guys like Soriano and Jones lower in the order and bat Murton/DeRosa/Theriot atop the lineup.

[98navigator]

In his pre-game and post-game comments, Lou expressed that the Cubs' lineup may not exactly be suited to hitting in cold-weather conditions.

 

I'll leave the "this is/isn't an excuse" debate to others. The point I want to make is that if Lou believes this then he should strongly consider tweaking the order. Until it gets warmer, move the low-OBP guys like Soriano and Jones lower in the order and bat Murton/DeRosa/Theriot atop the lineup.

 

Actually he didn't. Comcast Sports Net played the whole interview in the postgame. Lou was merely answering a question about the cold but he made a point of going back to clarify his comments. He said that the opposition is playing in the same weather and they have to score runs. No excuse was made.

 

So to your main point, I don't think he believes the weather is the problem. Murton will probably bat second tomorrow just by virtue of facing a LHP.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Well, we have the first three game losing streak a little over one week into the season. Will it reach four?

[Laura]

Cubs.com suggests that Soriano could have caught the ball that went for a Luke Scott double in the first. I didn't see the play; is it true?

 

The Astros rapped out four straight hits off Cubs starter Marquis (0-1) with one out in the first, starting with a double by Morgan Ensberg. Lance Berkman and Carlos Lee each singled, with Ensberg scoring on Lee's hit. Scott doubled over Soriano in center to score both Berkman and Lee and make it 3-0.

 

Could Soriano have caught the ball?

 

"It's a tough play," Piniella said. "The ball was hit pretty well on the line. It's not an easy play."

 

"It's a hard line drive, and it's difficult to see if I could've caught that ball," Soriano said. "Maybe if I had a better jump, who knows?"

 

ETA: In the long run, Murton has to worry more about Soriano moving to LF than anyone else. I think we all know who wins that fight.

Edited April 11, 2007 by Laura

[USSoccer]

BTW, would you really care if Marquis won 20 games with a 5.40 ERA and 1.60 WHIP? I sure wouldn't.

 

Personally, I'd be furious that the Cubs left a starter in all year long that couldn't provide better numbers than that. I don't care if they have to promote Veal or Gallagher to make it happen.

 

5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP is for AAA, not the major leagues.

 

I'd be livid that the pitcher with the 5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP wasn't DFA'd. Those are pathetic numbers regardless of the run support and "keeping his team in games" nonsense that would be spewed.

[Rob]

I'm not upset at all with the way things are looking so far this year.

 

The approach at the plate has been better than expected for almost all of our hitters... Soriano and Murton being the notable exceptions. The pitching is looking good... especially when it has to be noted that Gooz or Prior should be replacing Miller soon. Even the bullpen has been pretty good.

 

The results aren't there yet for the offense, granted. But I'd prefer to keep this approach up, as it is more likely to bear dividends in the future than a "contact and small ball" approach. The power will come.

[rocket]

1 more loss and i'm starting a 2008 anticipation thread

[Mizzou]

BTW, would you really care if Marquis won 20 games with a 5.40 ERA and 1.60 WHIP? I sure wouldn't.

 

Personally, I'd be furious that the Cubs left a starter in all year long that couldn't provide better numbers than that. I don't care if they have to promote Veal or Gallagher to make it happen.

 

5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP is for AAA, not the major leagues.

 

I'd be livid that the pitcher with the 5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP wasn't DFA'd. Those are pathetic numbers regardless of the run support and "keeping his team in games" nonsense that would be spewed.

Man, when you become so (for lack of a better term) angry? It seems like every post from you is just filled with ire.

 

If we have a 20 game winner, livid would probably be the last emotion used to describe my feelings towards him.

[rocket]

BTW, would you really care if Marquis won 20 games with a 5.40 ERA and 1.60 WHIP? I sure wouldn't.

 

Personally, I'd be furious that the Cubs left a starter in all year long that couldn't provide better numbers than that. I don't care if they have to promote Veal or Gallagher to make it happen.

 

5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP is for AAA, not the major leagues.

 

I'd be livid that the pitcher with the 5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP wasn't DFA'd. Those are pathetic numbers regardless of the run support and "keeping his team in games" nonsense that would be spewed.

Man, when you become so (for lack of a better term) angry? It seems like every post from you is just filled with ire.

 

If we have a 20 game winner, livid would probably be the last emotion used to describe my feelings towards him.

 

i'd be blissfully happy with our offense. but i'd be mad at the pitcher, and hope to god that he isn't given a contract extension. actually, i'd hope we'd trade him in the offseason.

[E.J.]

BTW, would you really care if Marquis won 20 games with a 5.40 ERA and 1.60 WHIP? I sure wouldn't.

 

Personally, I'd be furious that the Cubs left a starter in all year long that couldn't provide better numbers than that. I don't care if they have to promote Veal or Gallagher to make it happen.

 

5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP is for AAA, not the major leagues.

 

I'd be livid that the pitcher with the 5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP wasn't DFA'd. Those are pathetic numbers regardless of the run support and "keeping his team in games" nonsense that would be spewed.

Man, when you become so (for lack of a better term) angry? It seems like every post from you is just filled with ire.

 

If we have a 20 game winner, livid would probably be the last emotion used to describe my feelings towards him.

 

i'd be blissfully happy with our offense. but i'd be mad at the pitcher, and hope to god that he isn't given a contract extension. actually, i'd hope we'd trade him in the offseason.

 

Agreed. I'm pretty sure we could find at least a couple guys in the minor leagues who could pitch better than a 5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP.

 

I just think it's funny people are ready to rip each other's throats out because we're off to a bad start. The Cubs definitely aren't the lovable losers anymore.

[ConstableRabbit]

Cubs.com suggests that Soriano could have caught the ball that went for a Luke Scott double in the first. I didn't see the play; is it true?

 

The Astros rapped out four straight hits off Cubs starter Marquis (0-1) with one out in the first, starting with a double by Morgan Ensberg. Lance Berkman and Carlos Lee each singled, with Ensberg scoring on Lee's hit. Scott doubled over Soriano in center to score both Berkman and Lee and make it 3-0.

 

Could Soriano have caught the ball?

 

"It's a tough play," Piniella said. "The ball was hit pretty well on the line. It's not an easy play."

 

"It's a hard line drive, and it's difficult to see if I could've caught that ball," Soriano said. "Maybe if I had a better jump, who knows?"

 

ETA: In the long run, Murton has to worry more about Soriano moving to LF than anyone else. I think we all know who wins that fight.

 

Because it was a liner, he took a few steps back before realizing that he'd have to move up. If he dove I think he would've been able to catch it -- there was just very little margin for error. I think he would've had to run full out with a good jump (or take a risky dive) in order for him to make the play.

[abuck1220]

BTW, would you really care if Marquis won 20 games with a 5.40 ERA and 1.60 WHIP? I sure wouldn't.

 

Personally, I'd be furious that the Cubs left a starter in all year long that couldn't provide better numbers than that. I don't care if they have to promote Veal or Gallagher to make it happen.

 

5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP is for AAA, not the major leagues.

 

I'd be livid that the pitcher with the 5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP wasn't DFA'd. Those are pathetic numbers regardless of the run support and "keeping his team in games" nonsense that would be spewed.

 

if the cubs would have had a decent pitcher making those starts, he would have won 30 games with that ridiculous offense. so, yeah, i'd care.

[MPrior]

Cubs.com suggests that Soriano could have caught the ball that went for a Luke Scott double in the first. I didn't see the play; is it true?

 

The Astros rapped out four straight hits off Cubs starter Marquis (0-1) with one out in the first, starting with a double by Morgan Ensberg. Lance Berkman and Carlos Lee each singled, with Ensberg scoring on Lee's hit. Scott doubled over Soriano in center to score both Berkman and Lee and make it 3-0.

 

Could Soriano have caught the ball?

 

"It's a tough play," Piniella said. "The ball was hit pretty well on the line. It's not an easy play."

 

"It's a hard line drive, and it's difficult to see if I could've caught that ball," Soriano said. "Maybe if I had a better jump, who knows?"

 

ETA: In the long run, Murton has to worry more about Soriano moving to LF than anyone else. I think we all know who wins that fight.

 

Because it was a liner, he took a few steps back before realizing that he'd have to move up. If he dove I think he would've been able to catch it -- there was just very little margin for error. I think he would've had to run full out with a good jump (or take a risky dive) in order for him to make the play.

 

I think you're talking about Lee's single, which Soriano probably could have caught, as you say, with a perfect play. What the quotation is referencing is Scott's double that went over Soriano's head. Having seen it, I really doubt he could have gotten there without, again, a perfect play. The ball was hit very deep to straightaway center.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Scott's double that went over Soriano's head. Having seen it, I really doubt he could have gotten there without, again, a perfect play. The ball was hit very deep to straightaway center.

 

I concur. I think he would have to have been drifting back with the pitch to make that catch.

[treebird]

Scott's double that went over Soriano's head. Having seen it, I really doubt he could have gotten there without, again, a perfect play. The ball was hit very deep to straightaway center.

 

I concur. I think he would have to have been drifting back with the pitch to make that catch.

 

yup, im watching the replay of the game on comcast right now. the only way you can fault soriano on that play is if you think he should've been positioned 15 feet deeper before the pitch.

[Pushfrog98]

Is Marquis the new Matt Clement? Run support always coming up just short... losing 1-0, 2-1, 3-1?

[Derwood]

BTW, would you really care if Marquis won 20 games with a 5.40 ERA and 1.60 WHIP? I sure wouldn't.

 

Personally, I'd be furious that the Cubs left a starter in all year long that couldn't provide better numbers than that. I don't care if they have to promote Veal or Gallagher to make it happen.

 

5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP is for AAA, not the major leagues.

 

I'd be livid that the pitcher with the 5.40 ERA/1.60 WHIP wasn't DFA'd. Those are pathetic numbers regardless of the run support and "keeping his team in games" nonsense that would be spewed.

 

you must have been LIVID that the Cubs didn't DFA Guzman last year (or Rich Hill early in the season)