Bring Back Moises

[Transmogrified Tiger]

4-5mil is quite a bit for a platoon guy. Thats getting into Neifi and Rusch type money there. That mopney would be much better spent on our bigger needs(pitching and a slugger)

 

Essientially, yes 4-5 million is a lot for a platoon guy. But Jones makes 5 million and if Alou signed for 5 million, then 10 million is alotted for RF. You'd find it hard to get a slugger at 10 million who would give you the combined production of Alou + Jones. Don't look at it as paying 5 million for a platoon player, but instead paying 10 million for all-star level production from RF.

 

Something to keep in mind is that Jones and Alou both had their best platoon numbers in this past season. Jones put up an .886 OPS this year, but was only .826 the previous 3 years. Alou was nearly 1.100 this year, and the last three years is just under 1.020. I don't think that platoon is any type of guarantee for a .900 OPS(and it will be an OPS carried by SLG at that). At 10 million I'd rather go after Drew with a similar OPS that's OBP driven that will play better defense.

[Bruno7481]

Dubois was awful.

 

There were outcries for Dubois like crazy that offseason. He got the job and preceded to lose it pretty quickly.

 

I wanted Dubois to get a chance. What I didn't want was an outfield of Dubois, Patterson and Burnitz. Likewise, I wanted Murton to get a chance, but I didn't want an OF of Murton, Pierre and Jones. You need some big time production out of your OF. Going with a guy like Dubois, or Murton, should allow you to afford big time production elsewhere in that OF. The problem wasn't giving a kid the chance. The problem was giving him the chance, but them constructing a team that needed that kid to produce big time, right away, in order to succeed.

 

I see your point. But part of is that Dubois just wasn't very good. Murton is 3x the player of Dubois.

 

I'm not all that confident Dubois' stats would have been any better with more production out of CF and RF.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Has Alou given any hints as to what he wants to do? I would think a DH/OF stint with a crappy AL team would be a pretty good match.

[Bruno7481]

And I'm not sure how much of a shot Dubois actually received.

 

But regardless, yes I wanted Dubois to get a shot, but like Goony, I didn't want Burnitz. Had I known Sosa was going to be traded for nothing, I'd have preferred to keep Alou in left and let Dubois/Hollandsworth attempt in right. At least in that scenario we would have had only two thirds of the OF sucking rather than the whole shebang! (And yes, I've been waiting all day to use the phrase "whole shebang".)

 

Dubois got a shot with the Cubs, and he was moved to Cleveland where he didn't do much either. He had an OK year with Cleveland's AAA team. I think Dubois and Restovich are long lost brothers.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

There are much cheaper options out there such as with similar production:

 

Eli Marrero- vs. Left: .415 vs. Right: .250

 

Gabe Kapler- vs. Left: .317 vs. Right: .238

 

Stats from MLB website player Bio page.

 

First of all, those stats are only batting averages and are incomplete. Let's look at the total productivitiy of each player vs what Alou would bring.

 

Kapler vs LH for 2006

265/367/372

 

Compared to Alou

349/687/407

 

That's like the difference between Chase Utley and Mark Grudzielanek.

 

Marrero vs LH

234/315/531

 

It still pales in comparison to Alou.

 

Furthermore, what sets Alou apart is that if needed, he actually can perform against righties.

 

Kapler vs RH

242/309/323

 

You wouldn't want him anywhere near a RH pitcher.

 

Marrero vs RH

138/342/241

 

Once again, horrible.

 

Alou vs RH

286/334/534

 

That's pretty good right there.

 

So, while it is more money, Alou is a better platoon option and a better replacement regardless of who is on the mound. Alou could be the power hitting bat on the bench regardless of the handedness of the pitcher, while the above are useless unless a LH is on the mound.

 

I'll admit, I don't know if Alou would accpet a part time role, but even if the cost is 5 million, he'd be worth the gamble.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

And I'm not sure how much of a shot Dubois actually received.

 

But regardless, yes I wanted Dubois to get a shot, but like Goony, I didn't want Burnitz. Had I known Sosa was going to be traded for nothing, I'd have preferred to keep Alou in left and let Dubois/Hollandsworth attempt in right. At least in that scenario we would have had only two thirds of the OF sucking rather than the whole shebang! (And yes, I've been waiting all day to use the phrase "whole shebang".)

 

Dubois got a shot with the Cubs, and he was moved to Cleveland where he didn't do much either. He had an OK year with Cleveland's AAA team. I think Dubois and Restovich are long lost brothers.

 

I'm not going to defend Dubois any longer. He had his shot. His minor league numbers indicated he should have done better. On the other hand, just because we had Dubois didn't mean we should have let Alou walk. Hendry knew he was moving Sosa no matter what and he shouldn't have been left with Burnitz as his only other option.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Has Alou given any hints as to what he wants to do? I would think a DH/OF stint with a crappy AL team would be a pretty good match.

 

True, but with what team and how much will they pay? If we offer five million for a part-time role and a team such as Texas offers 3 million for a fulltime DH job, would he take more money to play less?

[TruffleShuffle]

moises alou will get more than 4-5 million per

[CubinNY]

And I'm not sure how much of a shot Dubois actually received.

 

But regardless, yes I wanted Dubois to get a shot, but like Goony, I didn't want Burnitz. Had I known Sosa was going to be traded for nothing, I'd have preferred to keep Alou in left and let Dubois/Hollandsworth attempt in right. At least in that scenario we would have had only two thirds of the OF sucking rather than the whole shebang! (And yes, I've been waiting all day to use the phrase "whole shebang".)

 

Dubois got a shot with the Cubs, and he was moved to Cleveland where he didn't do much either. He had an OK year with Cleveland's AAA team. I think Dubois and Restovich are long lost brothers.

 

I'm not going to defend Dubois any longer. He had his shot. His minor league numbers indicated he should have done better. On the other hand, just because we had Dubois didn't mean we should have let Alou walk. Hendry knew he was moving Sosa no matter what and he shouldn't have been left with Burnitz as his only other option.

 

I'll defend Dubois. His arch enemy is Todd F. Hollandsworth. Dubois never got a shot with either the Cubs or Cleveland. We're just lucky Dusty and Jim didn't have a viable aging vetran alternative to Murton.

 

I never understand why the Cubs and Cleveland would rather play and pay a guy much more money to put up similar numbers. Both clubs are stupid. Same thing with Restovich. None of those two will probably make an all-star team, however for the money they make a team could have done a lot worse. Which brings me back to Todd Hollandsworth.

 

RE Moises> I agree with Truffle.

[goonys evil twin]

Dubois was awful.

 

There were outcries for Dubois like crazy that offseason. He got the job and preceded to lose it pretty quickly.

 

I wanted Dubois to get a chance. What I didn't want was an outfield of Dubois, Patterson and Burnitz. Likewise, I wanted Murton to get a chance, but I didn't want an OF of Murton, Pierre and Jones. You need some big time production out of your OF. Going with a guy like Dubois, or Murton, should allow you to afford big time production elsewhere in that OF. The problem wasn't giving a kid the chance. The problem was giving him the chance, but them constructing a team that needed that kid to produce big time, right away, in order to succeed.

 

I see your point. But part of is that Dubois just wasn't very good. Murton is 3x the player of Dubois.

 

I'm not all that confident Dubois' stats would have been any better with more production out of CF and RF.

 

I didn't say they would have been. Had he gotten 500 PA, maybe. But even if they stayed bad, it would have affected the team less if they didn't do such a bad job with the other positions. I'm not going to debate whether or not Dubois would have been better. I think he should have gotten a better shot, but that's not the point.

[CubinNY]

Dubois was awful.

 

There were outcries for Dubois like crazy that offseason. He got the job and preceded to lose it pretty quickly.

 

I wanted Dubois to get a chance. What I didn't want was an outfield of Dubois, Patterson and Burnitz. Likewise, I wanted Murton to get a chance, but I didn't want an OF of Murton, Pierre and Jones. You need some big time production out of your OF. Going with a guy like Dubois, or Murton, should allow you to afford big time production elsewhere in that OF. The problem wasn't giving a kid the chance. The problem was giving him the chance, but them constructing a team that needed that kid to produce big time, right away, in order to succeed.

 

I see your point. But part of is that Dubois just wasn't very good. Murton is 3x the player of Dubois.

 

I'm not all that confident Dubois' stats would have been any better with more production out of CF and RF.

 

I didn't say they would have been. Had he gotten 500 PA, maybe. But even if they stayed bad, it would have affected the team less if they didn't do such a bad job with the other positions. I'm not going to debate whether or not Dubois would have been better. I think he should have gotten a better shot, but that's not the point.

 

This is rehashing old topics but it points out the modus operandi of the Hendry era. Goony is exactly right. A team can afford to have a player like Dubois (cheap) if they have stengthend themselves in other areas.

 

Hendry builds weak teams and Dusty exacerbated the situations with his daily lineup card. Even in 2003 and 2004.

[abuck1220]

Great. Alou and Jones can compare their blunders on the basepaths in their spare time.

 

Murton, ?, and Jones/Alou across the outfield? That's some pretty weak defense. Alou doesn't bring enough with his bat (as a platoon partner) to make it worth the bad knees and baserunning gaffes.

 

I think he brings more than enough with the bat, as a platoon partner, to offset his bad knees and baserunning gaffes.

 

Alou/Jones would be a tremendously productive platoon. Unfortunately, they are two guys who probably would balk at sitting while a kid like Murton gets to play.

 

i think i'd rather trade jones, bring in geoff jenkins, and semi-platoon him with a guy like restovich.

 

from strictly a production standpoint, jones + alou >>>>> jenkins + restovich.

[NorthsideAvenger]

All this talk for Alou is moot (just like trading for Dunn), as I think he will either go to a team with a DH, or New York Mets. At least in NY, he could platoon with both Green and Floyd and form a solid platoon with both. So, I don't see Moises Alou as a viable option.

[SouthSideRyan]

must...not...ban...just...because...someone...wants...alou...back...

 

oh...the...pain...

 

Was waiting for this as soon as I saw the title.

[RichHillIsABeast]

The only time I saw Dubois mash a ML breaking ball was when it was hung right over the middle of the plate.

 

Dubois = AAAA

 

 

But, back to Alou. He's not worth the money, injury concerns, defensive liability, or bad baserunning as a platoon partner.

 

If we're going to go injury prone, let's go after Drew (which I don't advocate in general) and just flat out get rid of Jacque Jones.

[BigbadB]

before or after he pisses on them?

somehow im surprised that this comment didnt come from BBB

 

Why, I would never say such a thing. :shock:

 

But, the Wrigley Field custodians are still trying to figure out a way to get rid of the urine smell in the Cubs clubhouse ever since Peehands left.

[BigbadB]

The only time I saw Dubois mash a ML breaking ball was when it was hung right over the middle of the plate.

 

Dubois = AAAA

 

 

But, back to Alou. He's not worth the money, injury concerns, defensive liability, or bad baserunning as a platoon partner.

 

If we're going to go injury prone, let's go after Drew (which I don't advocate in general) and just flat out get rid of Jacque Jones.

 

Dubois versus LHP>>>Jacque Jones vs. LHP.

 

But, I'm all for getting rid of Jones for someone who can hit major league pitching, no matter which arm is doing the throwing.

[Shavo]

Who else doubts Alou and Jones would be willing to be in a platoon situation?

[BigbadB]

Who else doubts Alou and Jones would be willing to be in a platoon situation?

 

There's no way it happens. What will likely happen if they went out and got Alou is Murton would sit the pines.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Alou in his last year with the Cubbies had to be one of my favorite players. I was frequently critizied for being and advocate of him. I didn't want him to leave and hated to see Dubois/Holla platoon. Ironic how 2 years later we want him back.... just odd!

[TruffleShuffle]

Alou in his last year with the Cubbies had to be one of my favorite players. I was frequently critizied for being and advocate of him. I didn't want him to leave and hated to see Dubois/Holla platoon. Ironic how 2 years later we want him back.... just odd!

 

you're using the royal "we" there, i guess

[CubinNY]

The only time I saw Dubois mash a ML breaking ball was when it was hung right over the middle of the plate.

 

Dubois = AAAA.

 

Joe Morgan is that you?

[Mizzou]

Alou in his last year with the Cubbies had to be one of my favorite players. I was frequently critizied for being and advocate of him. I didn't want him to leave and hated to see Dubois/Holla platoon. Ironic how 2 years later we want him back.... just odd!

Agreed.

 

Hendry chose a crappy pinch hitter and a career minor leaguer to replace Alou.... that's what pissed me off moreso than just letting Alou walk.

[treebird]

Alou in his last year with the Cubbies had to be one of my favorite players. I was frequently critizied for being and advocate of him. I didn't want him to leave and hated to see Dubois/Holla platoon. Ironic how 2 years later we want him back.... just odd!

Agreed.

 

Hendry chose a crappy pinch hitter and a career minor leaguer to replace Alou.... that's what pissed me off moreso than just letting Alou walk.

 

everyone's a career minor leaguer before they make it to the major legues.

[Mizzou]

Alou in his last year with the Cubbies had to be one of my favorite players. I was frequently critizied for being and advocate of him. I didn't want him to leave and hated to see Dubois/Holla platoon. Ironic how 2 years later we want him back.... just odd!

Agreed.

 

Hendry chose a crappy pinch hitter and a career minor leaguer to replace Alou.... that's what pissed me off moreso than just letting Alou walk.

 

everyone's a career minor leaguer before they make it to the major legues.

I realize that. I was referring to Dubois's potential, not his past.