What's gone right since Bartman?

JonnyRed · July 24, 2006

I'll say up front that I don't believe in curse (human or animal), but I do feel that something in the baseball universe shifted after a certain fan interrupted the Cubs momentum (and some say concentration) just 5 outs from the 04WS. Really, has ANYTHING gone right for this hardluck franchise since that moment? Two pitchers capable of being the best Cubs hurlers in a generation are falling apart before our eyes. Our major trade acquisition followed up 1 1/3 injured packed seasons by returning to his top 10 hitter status now that he's in LA. Our MVP gets injured in a freak accident that has rendered his 2006 useless. And, I almost forgot, our best hitter in a generation left town with a dark cloud hanging over his head. Meanwhile, to make matters worse, the hated team on the southside can't seem to do anything wrong. Please help me find a glimmer of hope in all of this dispair. The only thing I can come up with is that when we final win the World Series, it will be all the more sweet because of truly how bad things have gotten.

SouthSideRyan · July 24, 2006

The first ~150 games or so of the '04 season weren't so bad.

Kerry Wood's homerun in game 7 is still my favorite baseball memory of all time in isolation.

Ding Dong Johnson · July 24, 2006

It's not a curse, it's inept management.

MustangMike · July 24, 2006

...and lots of bad luck. I hate the word "curse" cause I think its a copout, but I can't ignore the string of bad luck with injuries. Doesn't it seem odd that everyone is always hurt?

halplm · July 24, 2006

No, it's not odd, when you use young arms irresponsably for years, there's goign to be problems.

When you don't have good backups for when the freak injuries happen, you lose a lot more games.

When you make bad moves, and have a poorly conditioned team with poor fundamentals, injuries will happen more often and they will have a bigger impact.

It's not odd, it's a bad basebally organization.

beowulf28 · July 24, 2006

Maybe more like inept management and poor training/medical management.

Chocolate Milk · July 24, 2006

It's the curse of inept management!!!

Ding Dong Johnson · July 24, 2006

Bad luck is an acceptable reason, but curse is a copout?

nboldt11 · July 24, 2006

to me it looks like they just walk around blaming injuries, managers, management, etc when something goes wrong. Other good teams, such as the Cardinals, Yankees and others have had years with horrendous injuries, yet shut their mouth and grinded out the season. I DO believe that starts with the manager. The two teams I mentioned have LaRussa and Torre, and neither of those managers are going to sit their and let their players blame ANYTHING on their losing. That's why I like watching those teams play the game; cause they shut their mouths and play hard every day every inning.

If the Cubs want to become a year in and year out playoff team, they need to find players/coaches who shut their mouths and just play baseball for nine innings every day, instead walking around with a chip on their shoulder.

JonnyRed · July 24, 2006

I agree completely. I can't think of another team that has lost 2 young aces to injuries and to top it off with an freak injury to its MVP and its biggest trade acquisition.

On a related subject: How realistic is it that the Cubs could have planned for both Prior and Wood to be out and supplemented them with another #2-3 pitcher? We could have overspent on Washburn, Weaver or Morris this past offseason, but would we be much better? In fairness, you can't replace two aces. Other teams haven't been able to do it any better than the Cubs.

cubsjunky95 · July 24, 2006

Big Z has become one of the best pitchers in the game. Other than that you're right everything else has gone downhill. Truthfully I believe that we need to clean house (especially from a front office standpoint) before this team can become a contender again.

MustangMike · July 24, 2006

I think to say you are cursed or use that as an excuse as to why we are bad is a copout, but I think there is some reality in the fact that we've had some bad luck(nomar, Lee).

I'm not saying there isn't problems in conditioning, overuse of arms, but you can't blame overuse on Marmol...maybe marshall but he said he felt great 2 days before he got hurt.

Electron Blue · July 24, 2006

Yes.

Bad luck is simply a string of unfortunateness (for lack of a real word). It already happened and has no bearing on the future. It could have happened for any number of reasons. It, in and of itself, is not the Causer of unfortunateness.

A curse assumes, not only that the bad luck happened for a reason, but will continue to happen unless the evil magic is broken, perhaps by unicorns, three-leaf clovers or blowing up the bartman ball.

There's a big (though, by some people's definitions, arguably semantic) difference. But IMO, the curse is a copout b/c it preemptively uses Bad Luck as an excuse for things that haven't yet gone wrong.

I don't love Bad Luck as an excuse, but I don't know what else to call our string of injuries, Bartman, etc . . .

Larry Horse · July 24, 2006

And no mention of Alex Gonzalez.

Please let the "Bartman" thing go.

Enough.

Fro · July 24, 2006

Most of it is inept management. A small part of it is the power of collective negative mass consciousness and players buying into the "curse" nonsense".

Ding Dong Johnson · July 24, 2006

Bad luck = curses -- they're both imaginary.

People get hurt, it's part of life. Teams lose vital pieces all the time, yet this one is the one that can't seem to get through it. It's not luck or a curse, it's piss-poor management with the "woe is us" attitude. It's losing Derrek Lee and replacing him with Tony Womack. It's losing Mark Prior and Kerry Wood and replacing them with Glendon Rusch and a kid who had barely seen AA. Did the Cardinals regress to NL doormats when Pujols was out? How about the Yankees when they lost Matsui and Sheffield? Give it a rest with the goats and the cats and the Bartmans. This franchise is horrible because the wrong people are in charge.

CubColtPacer · July 24, 2006

Any team can have bad luck in any season. It is managements job to structure the team in a way that minimizes the effects of that bad luck on a team. The Cubs in 04, 05, and 06 have had exceptionally bad luck. Also, though, the teams have been structured on the head of a pin-if everything went right, any of these teams could have been very good. When just one or two things go wrong, the team starts to fall apart though. When we lose more people like this year, the team becomes horrible. So, yes the team has had worse luck then most teams-and we couldn't have prepared for all the bad luck. We should have been prepared for much more of it than we actually did prepare though.

JonnyRed · July 24, 2006

People do get hurt, but how often do you see this frequency of injuries? The Cards didn't lose Carpenter and Marquis along with Pujols. I think it's too easy to blame everything on Dusty/Hendry and their overuse, misuse of players. Wood and Prior were horses, and more than a few commented on the perfect mechanics of Prior, so he should have been able to take higher pitch counts.

Honestly, it's hard seeing absolutely everything going wrong for the Cubs (even seeing our somewhat promising fill-ins for Prior and Wood get hurt) while the Sox never seem to get hurt and have a DH playing like he's 25 rather than 36.

Chris · July 24, 2006

:-s

sethuel1 · July 24, 2006

I got married.

Oh, you mean for the Cubs.

bobbyd20 · July 24, 2006

I hope your wife doesn't find out you are blaming your marriage on Bartman.

jjgman21 · July 25, 2006

even injuries aside, there is alot in this game that is considered luck. the accepted line is that luck balances out, but it sure doesn't seem to.

admittedly I watch mostly Cubs games wehn I watch baseball, but I seriously never see the types of things that happens to the Cubs happening to other teams. look at the game tonight. how many times have Cubs pitchers shattered bats the past three years, only to have the ball fall in for a key bloop hit that changes the outcome of a game. or Ronnie's second K tonight. how many times have you seen Cubs players take pitches that were close, but probably out of the zone, only to have the ump ring them up.

the big inning last week when the Mets scored 11. let's not forget the first three hitters of that inning should have been out. IIRC there was a dribbler to Walker that he momentarily bobbled but Beltran was hustling. then an infield hit, then a blooper in the bermuda triangle, followed by Floyd flicking his bat out and reaching the basket. 1 foot either way on any of the four, and the inning is over.

Preston Wilson goes opposite field for the first time in his career to get the key hit against the Cubs in a game this year. Prior was abused, but the in season injuries have had nothing to do with anything but bad luck. does anybody honestly believe the non ball/strike bad calls we have dealt with the past three years have evenned out in any way?

watching the midseason webgem nominees in 2004. fully 40% of them were against the Cubs. watching the midsummer top plays for all of espn in 2004. three of them were agaisnt the Cubs. three of the top plays in all of sports against the Cubs. is that bad luck or did the Cubs somehow bring that on themselves?

there's so much that goes wrong for the Cubs that can not be explained with anything but bad luck.

TB_11 · July 25, 2006

Derrek was playing on the other side in 2003.

soccer10k · July 25, 2006

Z. DLee in 2005.

Derwood · July 25, 2006

If we're going to cite luck as a reason for anything, I'd say the Cubs winning the central with just 88 wins in '03 would fall into that category

What's gone right since Bartman?

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