More Brad Wilkerson talk

[mg420]

 

but still no true leadoff hitter.

 

What is a "true" leadoff hitter. Paint a picture for me. Give me some numbers to work with.

 

the classic lead off guy has a good obp (.350+) & can steal bases (30+) and has some speed. that seems to be the kind of guy the cubs are looking for to lead off imo.

[XZero771679666304]

 

but still no true leadoff hitter.

 

What is a "true" leadoff hitter. Paint a picture for me. Give me some numbers to work with.

 

If he's saying not a true leadoff hitter in the Cubs eyes, I think I understand. The Cubs have their central casting version of the true leadoff hitter, and when they are focused on one thing, they usually get it. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a true leadoff man, and narrowing down your search for greater production to fit the mold of your scouts' preconceived notions of what each position should look like is only doing a disservice to your team.

 

If he is saying that Wilkerson isn't a good option for leadoff, then I completely disagree with him.

 

My criteria for a leadoff man: .350+ OBP and legs not made completely of lead.

 

Wilkerson would be great.

[goonys evil twin]

I keep reading that trading will be better this year because of the poor FA class. If you look at a guy like abreu, who can the phillies replace him with if they move him? They might have to wait till next year to aquire a replacement. So in fact the FA class just pushes the price of average players up, Pie for pierre ? come on.................

 

I would think that any trade of Abreu would result in them spending cash on a pitcher and shuffling their own OF personel to fill the spot. I could see them go with Burrell, Rowand, Michaels, relying heavily on Utley and Howard for offense. They could also afford a make good deal with Nomar to be their third baseman. In fact, if I was Philly I'd be making a play for Nomar at 3B right now. I don't see them getting anybody close to a Zambrano/Prior for Abreu. So quantity might take precedent over quality.

[abuck1220]

i wouldnt consider a .875+ ops as being moderate to low production. if he's healthy, wilkerson can be a 30+ hr, .375+ obp .500+ slg right fielder. he also good defensively & has a very good arm. i would like to see abreu in rf but if not, either wilkerson or floyd would be a good fit.

 

That would be acceptable production for RF, but it's not close to a guarantee, and wouldn't even be top notch. Wilkerson, if anything, is likely to be in the low to mid 800s in OPS next year, very solid for a CF.

 

Couple that with Abreu in RF and suddenly you've got a very good offense, with good production in the OF as a whole.

 

I agree, but everything I have heard is that the Phillies want a front end SP, the Cubs aren't going to give them Prior or Z. I would trade Patterson to the Nats for Wilkerson, and throw Williams, Hill, Pinto and spare parts at the Reds for Dunn.

 

yeah, and boras is saying he wants seven years for damon. nobody's going to give up a prior/z type for two years of 30+ abreu, especially at 15 mil/year.

 

i would think it would take more to get dunn than it would to get abreu.

[The Voice of Reason]

 

but still no true leadoff hitter.

 

What is a "true" leadoff hitter. Paint a picture for me. Give me some numbers to work with.

 

If he's saying not a true leadoff hitter in the Cubs eyes, I think I understand. The Cubs have their central casting version of the true leadoff hitter, and when they are focused on one thing, they usually get it. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a true leadoff man, and narrowing down your search for greater production to fit the mold of your scouts' preconceived notions of what each position should look like is only doing a disservice to your team.

 

If he is saying that Wilkerson isn't a good option for leadoff, then I completely disagree with him.

 

 

The latest from Rosenthal

 

The Cubs continue to push hard for Marlins center fielder Juan Pierre, but the Nationals' Brad Wilkerson could emerge as another option. Nationals GM Jim Bowden has long been interested in Cubs center fielder Corey Patterson, and the Cubs have a number of young pitchers who might appeal to the Nationals.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5141070

[Bote McBoteface]

I would do Wilkerson for Williams in a heartbeat and not think twice about it.

 

I'd then turn around and make an offer for either Bradley or Pierre and call it an offseason.

 

I'd try to make both deals without including Walker.

 

Where does Hendry throw away all that money if he gets Wilkerson and Bradley? You know he has to spend it or people will riot.

Kevin Millwood.

 

I'm pretty sure last year the Cubs were among a list of teams mentioned that Kevin Millwood would never play for. Something about him not liking the uniforms.

 

Sorry if its already been discussed, I stopped reading

[E.J.]

I would do Wilkerson for Williams in a heartbeat and not think twice about it.

 

I'd then turn around and make an offer for either Bradley or Pierre and call it an offseason.

 

I'd try to make both deals without including Walker.

 

Where does Hendry throw away all that money if he gets Wilkerson and Bradley? You know he has to spend it or people will riot.

Kevin Millwood.

 

I'm pretty sure last year the Cubs were among a list of teams mentioned that Kevin Millwood would never play for. Something about him not liking the uniforms.

 

Sorry if its already been discussed, I stopped reading

 

:?:

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

 

but still no true leadoff hitter.

 

What is a "true" leadoff hitter. Paint a picture for me. Give me some numbers to work with.

 

If he's saying not a true leadoff hitter in the Cubs eyes, I think I understand. The Cubs have their central casting version of the true leadoff hitter, and when they are focused on one thing, they usually get it. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a true leadoff man, and narrowing down your search for greater production to fit the mold of your scouts' preconceived notions of what each position should look like is only doing a disservice to your team.

 

If he is saying that Wilkerson isn't a good option for leadoff, then I completely disagree with him.

 

 

The latest from Rosenthal

 

The Cubs continue to push hard for Marlins center fielder Juan Pierre, but the Nationals' Brad Wilkerson could emerge as another option. Nationals GM Jim Bowden has long been interested in Cubs center fielder Corey Patterson, and the Cubs have a number of young pitchers who might appeal to the Nationals.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5141070

 

Wilkerson in CF, please. Forget Gathright and Pierre. I hate Pierre. Gathright's not horrible, but if we're going to give up a ton of talent, let's get someone that can produce at the ML level, since we're going to lean on them to set the table for Lee and Ramirez.

 

I realize Wilkerson had a power drop, which may/may not be b/c of RFK, but he lead off for a good portion of the year. He probably wasn't trying to demolish the ball, just get on base.

[CuseCubFan69]

 

but still no true leadoff hitter.

 

What is a "true" leadoff hitter. Paint a picture for me. Give me some numbers to work with.

 

If he's saying not a true leadoff hitter in the Cubs eyes, I think I understand. The Cubs have their central casting version of the true leadoff hitter, and when they are focused on one thing, they usually get it. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a true leadoff man, and narrowing down your search for greater production to fit the mold of your scouts' preconceived notions of what each position should look like is only doing a disservice to your team.

 

If he is saying that Wilkerson isn't a good option for leadoff, then I completely disagree with him.

 

 

The latest from Rosenthal

 

The Cubs continue to push hard for Marlins center fielder Juan Pierre, but the Nationals' Brad Wilkerson could emerge as another option. Nationals GM Jim Bowden has long been interested in Cubs center fielder Corey Patterson, and the Cubs have a number of young pitchers who might appeal to the Nationals.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5141070

 

IMO this is such a no brainer if CPatt and a young pitcher is all it takes.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

The latest from Rosenthal

 

The Cubs continue to push hard for Marlins center fielder Juan Pierre, but the Nationals' Brad Wilkerson could emerge as another option. Nationals GM Jim Bowden has long been interested in Cubs center fielder Corey Patterson, and the Cubs have a number of young pitchers who might appeal to the Nationals.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5141070

 

IMO this is such a no brainer if CPatt and a young pitcher is all it takes.

 

If our young arms aren't going to get shots in the rotation or the pen, I'm less hesitant to trade them.

[Bruno7481]

[quote name=

 

Wilkerson in CF' date=' please. Forget Gathright and Pierre. I hate Pierre. Gathright's not horrible, but if we're going to give up a ton of talent, let's get someone that can produce at the ML level, since we're going to lean on them to set the table for Lee and Ramirez.

 

I realize Wilkerson had a power drop, which may/may not be b/c of RFK, but he lead off for a good portion of the year. He probably wasn't trying to demolish the ball, just get on base.[/quote]

 

Hitting for power isn't a result of "trying to demolish" the ball. Good hitters take the same approach every time up. If you try and "demolish the ball" your going to mess up your swing. Power happens as a result of your approach and execution, not be swinging as hard as you can.

 

That said, I'd welocme Wilkerson on this team.

[abuck1220]

in addition to rfk, it's important to remember that the nl east, overall, isn't a great hitter's division. the central, on the other hand, w/ mil, hou, cin, is a pretty darn good hitter's division.

[ThePenguin11]

My bad, didn't know Rosenthal's article was as old as it was...

[erik316wttn]

I would do Wilkerson for Williams in a heartbeat and not think twice about it.

 

I'd then turn around and make an offer for either Bradley or Pierre and call it an offseason.

 

I'd try to make both deals without including Walker.

 

Either this line-up:

 

Pierre

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Wilkerson

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno/Perez

 

or

 

Wilkerson

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Bradley

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno/Perez

 

would not be too bad.

 

I'd see if you could get Nomar back here at a reasonable price. If you can, great, but if not, then give it to Cedeno.

 

Cedeno would be a super sub anyway. He could give Nomar every 4th or 5th game off, as well as resting Aram's hammies and giving Walker a day or two off here or there. He could get about 3 starts a week.

 

I think I'd do Williams for Wilkerson straight up, although I think Williams is going to be a solid #3 guy somewhere down the road.

[WrigleyField 22]

Oh man, I would really love Wilkerson on this team.

One of Wilerson/Bradley and one of Abreu/Dunn would be fantastic. Depending on how we resolve 2B/SS would decide who was a better fit between Wilkerson/Bradley

[Diffusion]

Couple that with Abreu in RF and suddenly you've got a very good offense, with good production in the OF as a whole.

 

I agree, but everything I have heard is that the Phillies want a front end SP, the Cubs aren't going to give them Prior or Z. I would trade Patterson to the Nats for Wilkerson, and throw Williams, Hill, Pinto and spare parts at the Reds for Dunn.

 

This is where a three way deal with the A's comes in. Barry Zito I think would be roughly what the Phillies are looking for. What are the A's looking for? A first baseman/designated hitter type? Brandon Sing would be helpful, perhaps. I'm sure they wouldn't say no to some young pitching like Jerome Williams. Throw in maybe Pinto. What are we thinking?

[Jazz]

Couple that with Abreu in RF and suddenly you've got a very good offense, with good production in the OF as a whole.

 

I agree, but everything I have heard is that the Phillies want a front end SP, the Cubs aren't going to give them Prior or Z. I would trade Patterson to the Nats for Wilkerson, and throw Williams, Hill, Pinto and spare parts at the Reds for Dunn.

 

This is where a three way deal with the A's comes in. Barry Zito I think would be roughly what the Phillies are looking for. What are the A's looking for? A first baseman/designated hitter type? Brandon Sing would be helpful, perhaps. I'm sure they wouldn't say no to some young pitching like Jerome Williams. Throw in maybe Pinto. What are we thinking?

 

does:

 

Cubs get: Abreu

Phillies get: Zito

A's get: Sing, Michaels, and Williams

 

sound right?

[JeffH]

Sing has essentially zero trade value.

[CubinNY]

Sing has essentially zero trade value.

 

Sub Sing for Dopiark and take out Michaels and I like the deal.

[Diffusion]

Couple that with Abreu in RF and suddenly you've got a very good offense, with good production in the OF as a whole.

 

I agree, but everything I have heard is that the Phillies want a front end SP, the Cubs aren't going to give them Prior or Z. I would trade Patterson to the Nats for Wilkerson, and throw Williams, Hill, Pinto and spare parts at the Reds for Dunn.

 

This is where a three way deal with the A's comes in. Barry Zito I think would be roughly what the Phillies are looking for. What are the A's looking for? A first baseman/designated hitter type? Brandon Sing would be helpful, perhaps. I'm sure they wouldn't say no to some young pitching like Jerome Williams. Throw in maybe Pinto. What are we thinking?

 

does:

 

Cubs get: Abreu

Phillies get: Zito

A's get: Sing, Michaels, and Williams

 

sound right?

 

It does, I think. Maybe the Phillies would want a marginal prospect from the Cubs for throwing in Michaels too. Sergio Mitre perhaps.

 

Then we trade Patterson and Grant Johnson for Wilkerson, say?

[Diffusion]

Sing has essentially zero trade value.

 

That's not exactly true. You can trade the right for another team to put him in the minors. That's a luxury they don't get if they take him in the Rule 5 draft.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Couple that with Abreu in RF and suddenly you've got a very good offense, with good production in the OF as a whole.

 

I agree, but everything I have heard is that the Phillies want a front end SP, the Cubs aren't going to give them Prior or Z. I would trade Patterson to the Nats for Wilkerson, and throw Williams, Hill, Pinto and spare parts at the Reds for Dunn.

 

This is where a three way deal with the A's comes in. Barry Zito I think would be roughly what the Phillies are looking for. What are the A's looking for? A first baseman/designated hitter type? Brandon Sing would be helpful, perhaps. I'm sure they wouldn't say no to some young pitching like Jerome Williams. Throw in maybe Pinto. What are we thinking?

 

does:

 

Cubs get: Abreu

Phillies get: Zito

A's get: Sing, Michaels, and Williams

 

sound right?

 

It does, I think. Maybe the Phillies would want a marginal prospect from the Cubs for throwing in Michaels too. Sergio Mitre perhaps.

 

Then we trade Patterson and Grant Johnson for Wilkerson, say?

 

IMO, either Philly would want more, or an extension for Zito in Philly would have to be worked out beforehand.

 

As a follow up, I'd prefer Lowe + Bradley to fix the hole in the rotation, but I'm not going to complain in the slightest if we get Wilkerson.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Sing has essentially zero trade value.

 

That's not exactly true. You can trade the right for another team to put him in the minors. That's a luxury they don't get if they take him in the Rule 5 draft.

 

I think his point was that at some juncture this offseason, anyone could have had Sing for free, and they all passed. Might've been because he's a 6 year minor league FA.

[beowulf28]

Rotoworld via WaPost speculates it was once Cedeno for Wilkerson, pre-Furcal signing, now it might be Williams for Wilkerson. I'd do that.

 

Me too! In a heart beat! :D

[Diffusion]

Couple that with Abreu in RF and suddenly you've got a very good offense, with good production in the OF as a whole.

 

I agree, but everything I have heard is that the Phillies want a front end SP, the Cubs aren't going to give them Prior or Z. I would trade Patterson to the Nats for Wilkerson, and throw Williams, Hill, Pinto and spare parts at the Reds for Dunn.

 

This is where a three way deal with the A's comes in. Barry Zito I think would be roughly what the Phillies are looking for. What are the A's looking for? A first baseman/designated hitter type? Brandon Sing would be helpful, perhaps. I'm sure they wouldn't say no to some young pitching like Jerome Williams. Throw in maybe Pinto. What are we thinking?

 

does:

 

Cubs get: Abreu

Phillies get: Zito

A's get: Sing, Michaels, and Williams

 

sound right?

 

It does, I think. Maybe the Phillies would want a marginal prospect from the Cubs for throwing in Michaels too. Sergio Mitre perhaps.

 

Then we trade Patterson and Grant Johnson for Wilkerson, say?

 

IMO, either Philly would want more, or an extension for Zito in Philly would have to be worked out beforehand.

 

As a follow up, I'd prefer Lowe + Bradley to fix the hole in the rotation, but I'm not going to complain in the slightest if we get Wilkerson.

 

I can't get Cot's to load, but I'm pretty sure that Zito's deal has another two years to run. As such, I don't think an extension is essential to any deal. The Phillies have time yet.