ESPN1K says Cubs trying to finish a deal for Pierre

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

You talking about Wilkerson, Pierre or Furcal?

 

I'm talking about Wilkerson. I don't understand the love affair. Maybe using "a lot" was an exaggeration, but there are definitely better options out there.

 

For center field? He had a down year and still was above average for a CF, and better than other options like Pierre. He's still only one year removed from an .874 OPS, which is outstanding for a CF. He plays average defense, he's still young and relatively cheap. There's not much downside, considering even if he stays at last year's down level he's about as productive as someone like Pierre was in their best years.

 

In addition, Wilkerson has routinely put up an OBP 100 points higher than his batting average. This guy has an amazing knack for drawing a walk.

[Lefty]

Pedro, who's the girl with the fake stuff?

[JeffH]

There are other possible reasons for Wilkerson's slide last season, but don't discount the possibility of the big "S".

[Ding Dong Johnson]

In addition, Wilkerson has routinely put up an OBP 100 points higher than his batting average. This guy has an amazing knack for drawing a walk.

 

Listen, I don't think the guy's garbage, I just don't think he's the answer.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I like the prospect of doing better.

 

Who's better? Bradley? I'll take him. Brady Clark? I'll take him too, but he may not repeat his numbers and isn't young. After that, unless you're getting Sizemore, Edmonds, Griffey, or Andruw Jones, you're hard pressed to do better.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

There are other possible reasons for Wilkerson's slide last season, but don't discount the possibility of the big "S".

 

Could that also be a reason for Pierre's slide?

[abuck1220]

i've been on the wilkerson wagon since last offseason.

 

i'd soooo rather have him than pierre.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

There are other possible reasons for Wilkerson's slide last season, but don't discount the possibility of the big "S".

 

Could that also be a reason for Pierre's slide?

 

Pierre's dropoff is at least partially BABIP related. Wilkerson could be because of the "S", but I'd like to see him play a season away from RFK before coming to that conclusion(I know his road splits weren't stellar either).

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I like the prospect of doing better.

 

Who's better? Bradley? I'll take him. Brady Clark? I'll take him too, but he may not repeat his numbers and isn't young. After that, unless you're getting Sizemore, Edmonds, Griffey, or Andruw Jones, you're hard pressed to do better.

 

Or Beltran or Lofton. Unless you want to consider the top 10 CF in the game outstanding (which he may be in), he's really nothing more than average. What he brings in OBP, he loses in so-so defense and less than spectacular baserunning. Like I said, I don't think the guy's a bum, I just think he's highly overrated on this board.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I like the prospect of doing better.

 

Who's better? Bradley? I'll take him. Brady Clark? I'll take him too, but he may not repeat his numbers and isn't young. After that, unless you're getting Sizemore, Edmonds, Griffey, or Andruw Jones, you're hard pressed to do better.

 

Or Beltran or Lofton. Unless you want to consider the top 10 CF in the game outstanding (which he may be in), he's really nothing more than average. What he brings in OBP, he loses in so-so defense and less than spectacular baserunning. Like I said, I don't think the guy's a bum, I just think he's highly overrated on this board.

 

I like Beltran, but he's got a monster contract and would require a bunch in return. Lofton is about to fall of a cliff production wise, his BABIP this year disguised that.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

i've been on the wilkerson wagon since last offseason.

 

i'd soooo rather have him than pierre.

 

Same here, I think he'd be just as good as 2003 if he left RFK. He still hit a s-load of doubles and triples, the most in his career in either category, but that park was a place where HRs go to die.

 

If we got anything like the THREE YEARS before last year, I'd be very happy. Especially when you consider he plays very good D.

[goonys evil twin]

I like the prospect of doing better.

 

Who's better? Bradley? I'll take him. Brady Clark? I'll take him too, but he may not repeat his numbers and isn't young. After that, unless you're getting Sizemore, Edmonds, Griffey, or Andruw Jones, you're hard pressed to do better.

 

Or Beltran or Lofton. Unless you want to consider the top 10 CF in the game outstanding (which he may be in), he's really nothing more than average. What he brings in OBP, he loses in so-so defense and less than spectacular baserunning. Like I said, I don't think the guy's a bum, I just think he's highly overrated on this board.

 

Lofton is not better than Wilkerson, and I'm not even a huge BW fan. Lofton has a better reputation, but he's a parttime player will deteriorating skills who can hardly play the position defensively anymore.

[Careless]

I like the prospect of doing better.

 

Who's better? Bradley? I'll take him. Brady Clark? I'll take him too, but he may not repeat his numbers and isn't young. After that, unless you're getting Sizemore, Edmonds, Griffey, or Andruw Jones, you're hard pressed to do better.

 

Or Beltran or Lofton. Unless you want to consider the top 10 CF in the game outstanding (which he may be in), he's really nothing more than average. What he brings in OBP, he loses in so-so defense and less than spectacular baserunning. Like I said, I don't think the guy's a bum, I just think he's highly overrated on this board.

 

I like Beltran, but he's got a monster contract and would require a bunch in return. Lofton is about to fall of a cliff production wise, his BABIP this year disguised that.

When lofton signs with someone, I'm gonna do a search for BABIP+lofton in your posts, cpat, and see how many there are :wink:

[Roast]

There are other possible reasons for Wilkerson's slide last season, but don't discount the possibility of the big "S".

 

I hate how every player that had a down year in 2005 will be suspected of steroids.**

 

 

**Just a general observation, nothing against your specific statment.

[sonicdethmonkey0]

i think wilkerson is a far better option than pierre, and frankly, might be the best option out there for the cubs to play CF. pierre's speed is nice, but unless he gets on base, his speed is useless. wilkerson can GET ON BASE. that's what he does, and historically, he's had power. i don't know where that power went last year, but i'd be willing to bet you that wilkerson hits more than 11 HRs in 2006. ensberg lost his power stroke two years ago, and look at the monster year he put up last year.

 

the cubs' biggest problem is OBP. pierre might address that problem, but only if he hits for a high average. if he has a year like last year, he's an average player at best. wilkerson is going to get on base. i believe vance said it earlier: he knows how to take a walk. that is what the cubs need at the top of the order. believe it or not, baserunning and defense were not the reason the cubs sucked last year, it was because our pitching staff walked everybody and our position players never walked. if our lineup had any semblance of patience, you'd see derrek lee with the mvp trophy today.

 

the cubs can only do so much this offseason. i'm not a huge juan pierre fan, but i guess he (potentially) could be an improvement. wilkerson IS an improvement. go get him, jim.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Wilkerson would be a much better option that Pierre. If you acquire Wilkerson and miss out on Furcal, Brad can lead off just as you'd expect Pierre to do. On the other hand, if you acquire Wilkerson and then sign Furcal, Wilkerson can hit second, fifth, or sixth much better than Pierre would.

[jmajew]

Wilkerson can also play first base. Which would also help solve the problem of finding a backup for Lee. I see him being a right fielder if not a bench player. Eventhough Wilkeron has a solid OBP he still isn't a good top of the order option. He doesn't have enough speed to bat leadoff and he strikes out too much to be bat second. His BB/K ratio is basically 3/5. You need a two hitter who will make a lot of contact so he can advance the runner. 147 Ks last year.

 

Wilkerson also is ten times better against lefties than righties. He batted 296, with a OBP 390, and an OPS of 804 last year against lefties. Righties on the other hand he was 228, 335, 737. If anything this shows Wilkerson is no better than a platoon player.

 

My point is Wilkerson is not the answer. He would be a great guy to have coming off the bench and giving guys a day off but thats it.

Edited November 15, 2005 by jmajew

[Sabermetrician]

My point is Wilkerson is not the answer. He would be a great guy to have coming off the bench and giving guys a day off but thats it.

 

Whoa.

[Andy]

My point is Wilkerson is not the answer. He would be a great guy to have coming off the bench and giving guys a day off but thats it.

 

Whoa.

Wilkerson is MUCH better than a bench player. He may not be the ideal CF for the Cubs but he is not a bench-caliber player.

[NorthsideAvenger]

My point is Wilkerson is not the answer. He would be a great guy to have coming off the bench and giving guys a day off but thats it.

 

Whoa.

 

 

jmajew;

 

Let's not be saying things you don't mean. His average is just that...average....but the kid does get on base at a .350 clip over the course of his career. He has 20 homerun talent (RFK was just killer on power last yr) He doesn't run particularly well, but is by no means slow. IMO, Wilkerson would be a solid corner OF acquisiton, but by no means what I want him in CF. Wilkerson is much more then a "4 OFer" your implying. Wilkerson is an everyday player. And this is coming from a person, who is not that high on Wilkerson, but I would take him, in a heartbeat. I could live with Murton/Pierre/Wilkerson OF.

[imb]

Are you saying that you want Wilkerson for the corner, but NOT cf? wow.

[jmajew]

My point is Wilkerson is not the answer. He would be a great guy to have coming off the bench and giving guys a day off but thats it.

 

Whoa.

 

 

jmajew;

 

Let's not be saying things you don't mean. His average is just that...average....but the kid does get on base at a .350 clip over the course of his career. He has 20 homerun talent (RFK was just killer on power last yr) He doesn't run particularly well, but is by no means slow. IMO, Wilkerson would be a solid corner OF acquisiton, but by no means what I want him in CF. Wilkerson is much more then a "4 OFer" your implying. Wilkerson is an everyday player. And this is coming from a person, who is not that high on Wilkerson, but I would take him, in a heartbeat. I could live with Murton/Pierre/Wilkerson OF.

 

What I said was a little bit off, I would agree. But my point is that Wilkerson does not a really good fit for this Cubs team. I think we can fill our 1-2 slots by going out and hopefully getting Furcal and Pierre or Lofton. Yes, Wilkerson would be an upgrade over the guys we had last year out there but I don't think he is a big enough upgrade. Wilkerson is not the ideal five hitter. I think we'd be better off going out and getting Bradley, Mench, or even Juan Encarnacion to to play right and bat fifth. Actually now that I think about it our ideal right fielder and fifth hitter would be Aubrey Huff. You could even bat him 4 because he is a a lefty.

[BCVM22]

Actually now that I think about it our ideal right fielder and fifth hitter would be Aubrey Huff. You could even bat him 4 because he is a a lefty.

 

I don't want Huff in RF. There's a reason that a good number of the teams looking to acquire him are intending to play him in LF or at 1B, because his defense in RF is, at best, sub-par.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Actually now that I think about it our ideal right fielder and fifth hitter would be Aubrey Huff. You could even bat him 4 because he is a a lefty.

 

Have you seen the numbers Huff put up last year?

[USSoccer]

Actually now that I think about it our ideal right fielder and fifth hitter would be Aubrey Huff. You could even bat him 4 because he is a a lefty.

 

Have you seen the numbers Huff put up last year?

 

I don't want Huff near this team. Bad numbers last year, he's not that good defensively, and there are rumors of him being a really, really bad clubhouse guy. I'd almost rather have Jones or Encarnacion that Huff.