Giles a redbird???(sigh......)

[sethuel1]

Giles goes to Cards and we are done for.

 

hyperbole

 

If Prior, Z and Wood are all healthy, the Cubs can beat anyone.

 

That's proven to be a big if.

 

The law of averages are with the Cubs. Hopefully the baseball gods are too. Prior and Z should be fine. If Wood goes down again, I hope he isn't wearing Cubbie blue after 2006.

 

"I just threw a coin and got heads five times in a row. Therefore, this time I will get tails."

 

I think people forget that Wood did pitch 200+ innngs in 2002 and 2003. Now he has his shoulder cleaned up. It is far from a sure thing he will pitch a full season, but the chances are at least even that he will, IMO.

 

I have no problem with that reasoning. i do however, have a problem with the 'law of averages' reasoning.

[Balsa]

Can we get Fred in here? Fred how was Prior during before he got injured this year compared to the same amount of time in 2003?

 

Also, unless Wood has a bad season, or another injury that takes half the season, I see him re-signing. He likes Chicago, and let's face it, talented pitchers are rare.

 

Also,

 

"Told his friends "You know the law of averages says:

Anything will happen that can"

That's what it says

"But the last time the Cubs won a National League pennant

Was the year we dropped the bomb on Japan"

[da bears]

I really don't understand where Sullivan is getting his information from. Has anybody heard any prior reports that would go along with him saying Giles is headed to St. Louis? Im taking this claim with a grain of salt, but I would like to know if Sullivan is basing his claim off anything or just making stuff up. It would be nice to know where he's getting this information from.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Can we get Fred in here? Fred how was Prior during before he got injured this year compared to the same amount of time in 2003?

 

 

Ask, and ye shall receive.

 

Prior                IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR    PC  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
04/13 - 05/27      58.3   42   21   19   18   62    9   900  2.78  9.57  1.39  1.03  2.93
06/26 - 09/28     108.3  101   52   49   41  126   16  1925  3.41 10.47  1.33  1.31  4.07

2005 season tot   166.7  143   73   68   59  188   25  2825  3.19 10.15  1.35  1.21  3.67

Prior in 2003     211.3  183        57   50  228   15  3402  2.13 10.43  0.64  1.10  2.43

[Outshined_One]

I thought they would increase their budget because of the increased revenue from their new ballpark. Unless they have already spent that money elsewhere?

 

It's remaining at $92m. Accounting for the changes listed in the thread, STL might only have about $20m to play around with despite having some big need positions. They don't have the farm system to effectively fill those holes from within, so if they get Giles, they will potentially be short-changing their potential to fill holes in the rotation, bullpen, and in the lineup in a big way.

[David]

I thought they would increase their budget because of the increased revenue from their new ballpark. Unless they have already spent that money elsewhere?

 

It's remaining at $92m. Accounting for the changes listed in the thread, STL might only have about $20m to play around with despite having some big need positions. They don't have the farm system to effectively fill those holes from within, so if they get Giles, they will potentially be short-changing their potential to fill holes in the rotation, bullpen, and in the lineup in a big way.

 

I like to hear this...reasons why the Cards won't sign Giles.. I love it..

 

With our luck, he'll take his salary deferred for 50 years to play for the "world's greatest fans."

[Mark Priors Calves]

I thought they would increase their budget because of the increased revenue from their new ballpark. Unless they have already spent that money elsewhere?

 

It's remaining at $92m. Accounting for the changes listed in the thread, STL might only have about $20m to play around with despite having some big need positions. They don't have the farm system to effectively fill those holes from within, so if they get Giles, they will potentially be short-changing their potential to fill holes in the rotation, bullpen, and in the lineup in a big way.

 

I like to hear this...reasons why the Cards won't sign Giles.. I love it..

 

With our luck, he'll take his salary deferred for 50 years to play for the "world's greatest fans."

 

Hometown discount? 3 years/3 mill per?

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I thought they would increase their budget because of the increased revenue from their new ballpark. Unless they have already spent that money elsewhere?

 

It's remaining at $92m. Accounting for the changes listed in the thread, STL might only have about $20m to play around with despite having some big need positions. They don't have the farm system to effectively fill those holes from within, so if they get Giles, they will potentially be short-changing their potential to fill holes in the rotation, bullpen, and in the lineup in a big way.

 

I like to hear this...reasons why the Cards won't sign Giles.. I love it..

 

With our luck, he'll take his salary deferred for 50 years to play for the "world's greatest fans."

 

The more I think and read about it the smaller chance I think the Cards will sign Giles. Here's the reasons:

 

1) Less payroll then I had expected.

2) How many major FA's have the Card's signed in years past?

3) There is a bigger market for Giles then I had expected.

 

I hope I'm wrong!

[CuseCubFan69]

I thought they would increase their budget because of the increased revenue from their new ballpark. Unless they have already spent that money elsewhere?

 

It's remaining at $92m. Accounting for the changes listed in the thread, STL might only have about $20m to play around with despite having some big need positions. They don't have the farm system to effectively fill those holes from within, so if they get Giles, they will potentially be short-changing their potential to fill holes in the rotation, bullpen, and in the lineup in a big way.

 

I like to hear this...reasons why the Cards won't sign Giles.. I love it..

 

With our luck, he'll take his salary deferred for 50 years to play for the "world's greatest fans."

 

The more I think and read about it the smaller chance I think the Cards will sign Giles. Here's the reasons:

 

1) Less payroll then I had expected.

2) How many major FA's have the Card's signed in years past?

3) There is a bigger market for Giles then I had expected.

 

I hope I'm wrong!

 

If the Cards have Edmonds and Giles maybe they would get a senior discount?

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I thought they would increase their budget because of the increased revenue from their new ballpark. Unless they have already spent that money elsewhere?

 

It's remaining at $92m. Accounting for the changes listed in the thread, STL might only have about $20m to play around with despite having some big need positions. They don't have the farm system to effectively fill those holes from within, so if they get Giles, they will potentially be short-changing their potential to fill holes in the rotation, bullpen, and in the lineup in a big way.

 

I like to hear this...reasons why the Cards won't sign Giles.. I love it..

 

With our luck, he'll take his salary deferred for 50 years to play for the "world's greatest fans."

 

The more I think and read about it the smaller chance I think the Cards will sign Giles. Here's the reasons:

 

1) Less payroll then I had expected.

2) How many major FA's have the Card's signed in years past?

3) There is a bigger market for Giles then I had expected.

 

I hope I'm wrong!

 

If the Cards have Edmonds and Giles maybe they would get a senior discount?

 

I beileve that comes with the Reggie Sanders resigning.

[Balsa]

 

Ask, and ye shall receive.

 

Prior                IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR    PC  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
04/13 - 05/27      58.3   42   21   19   18   62    9   900  2.78  9.57  1.39  1.03  2.93
06/26 - 09/28     108.3  101   52   49   41  126   16  1925  3.41 10.47  1.33  1.31  4.07

2005 season tot   166.7  143   73   68   59  188   25  2825  3.19 10.15  1.35  1.21  3.67

Prior in 2003     211.3  183        57   50  228   15  3402  2.13 10.43  0.64  1.10  2.43

 

Very interesting. I see that pre-injury 2005 was a little worse than Prior 2003. Man, those 2003 stats are unbelievable...although holy crap he threw a lot of pitches...

 

Another interesting point is that although post-injury Prior gave up less homers and struck out more per inning, gave up a lot more walks and hits per inning.

 

Would it be too much to ask to get the last three starts before he was injured?

 

Thanks Fred your in my hall of fame.

[craig]

The Cardinals could definitely use Giles, no question about that. And since they aren't obsessed with youngsters, getting a vet like that would fit their habits.

 

That said, when the Cubs played most of their Cardinals games this year, I didn't feel like the Cardinals really had that imposing of a lineup. Edmonds ended up with his usual wonderful numbers, but I admit I don't fear him like I used to. Maybe the fact that he hit .263 this year, and will turn 36 in June is part of that? Rolen was out for most of the Cub games, and that really makes a difference. He may be back strong, but is that a safe bet? They got really good years from Grudz and Eckstein, but I admit I don't really fear them, and think either could go down. They got very solid play from all the 2nd-fiddles, Nunez and Gall and Rodriguez and all those cats. But I wouldn't be shocked to see any of those guys do worse next year.

 

My point being, they've had an awesome offense for years, and put up excellent offensive numbers again this year. But it was really their consistently strong pitching second half which made them so good.

 

If they *fail* to get giles, if some of their other guys sag some (well possible), and if either of Rolen or Edmonds doesn't come back strong, it's possible that they could end up with an unusually mediocre lineup. That could add a little pressure on pitchers who are solid but not necessarily dominant, like Suppan or marquis.

 

I think they may be more vulnerable than I sometimes realize.

 

Course, if they sign Giles, Edmonds and Rolen come back healthy and stay healthy, a lineup with Giles, Pujols, Edmonds, and Rolen in the middle in some order would be really scary, especailly when matched with one of the better pitching staffs in the league.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Would it be too much to ask to get the last three starts before he was injured?

 

Thanks Fred your in my hall of fame.

 

05/17 - 05/27        IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR    PC  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
Prior              19.3   15    7    7    5   16    5   282  2.33  7.45  2.33  1.03  3.26

[Balsa]

So his walk rate was going down before the injury....oh well, I'm just trying to extrapolate what he would have done had he not been injured, I was thinking maybe that he was getting better as the season went along, but then I rememberd he started off really hot going something like 30 innings without an earned run.

[jiml60]

I guess I didn't think the Giants sustained that sort of success. I have always been Dodgers-centric b/c my family is (in large part) from Brooklyn and I lived there for some time. I have a great throw-back 1955 Brooklyn hat and a poster with the 1955 team picture, which I love. Had they been in Brooklyn during my childhood (they were long gone by then), I might never have been a Cubs fan.

 

Great question, Fred. Keep em' coming.

 

Thanx for the kind words. I'm sure you'll appreciate the great contrast between the Dodgers and the Giants, with the Dodgers winning their first WS in 1955 the year after the Giants won their last one. Consider these 2 time frames......

 

          1876 thru 1954                            World Series
team                        W       L     pct    PA     W     L

Los Angeles Dodgers      4939    4740   0.510     7     0     7
San Francisco Giants     5851    4652   0.557    14     5     9


         1955 thru 2005                            World Series
team                        W       L     pct    PA     W     L

Los Angeles Dodgers      4364    3717   0.540    16     6     5
San Francisco Giants     4190    3895   0.518     8     0     3

 

That's quite a reversal of fortunes, even though neither team was ever bad for any prolonged period of time.

 

So the Giants won the 10,000th game in their history this season. I don't recall any hype about it. It seems that would be something MLB would rally around, or did the Bonds scandal put a damper on it?

[Fred Hornkohl]

So the Giants won the 10,000th game in their history this season. I don't recall any hype about it. It seems that would be something MLB would rally around, or did the Bonds scandal put a damper on it?

 

Yeah, it happened on Fri 01 July in a 3-2 win in San Diego. I remember it cause I was at the CUBS game that day. I checked the paper and some websites and couldn't find a word about it. That did surprise me a little, as I can remember some hoopla when the CUBS won their 8,000th game back in the early part of the '82 season.

[nilodnayr]

I thought they would increase their budget because of the increased revenue from their new ballpark. Unless they have already spent that money elsewhere?

 

It's remaining at $92m. Accounting for the changes listed in the thread, STL might only have about $20m to play around with despite having some big need positions. They don't have the farm system to effectively fill those holes from within, so if they get Giles, they will potentially be short-changing their potential to fill holes in the rotation, bullpen, and in the lineup in a big way.

 

Pujols:14M

Rolen:9M (+2M deferred)

Edmonds:11M (+1M deferred)

Izzy:8.75M

Mulder:7.75M

Suppan:4M

Marquis;~4M

Eckstein:3.25M

Carp; 5M (+"significant appearance incentives")

King:2.45M

Molina: ~.4M

 

So thats 11 players at a bit over 70M with holes at 2nd (Grudz will probably come back for 1.5M again), both corner OF (Sanders might come back for 4M again), and a starter (resign Mo or hand it over to a prospect), not to mention pen and bench. It really depends on what they want to do with the other OF spot and Mattys rotation, but realisticly they will need to expand the payroll to be able to sign Giles.

[MPrior]

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside looking at Prior's 2003 #'s. That's some pretty sick stuff. And only numbers like that will justify my saying that he "only" won 18 games that year.

 

Secondly, it looks like one of the big problems for Prior, in addition to his walk rate, is his HR rate. He gives up way more now than he used to.

[jiml60]

So the Giants won the 10,000th game in their history this season. I don't recall any hype about it. It seems that would be something MLB would rally around, or did the Bonds scandal put a damper on it?

 

Yeah, it happened on Fri 01 July in a 3-2 win in San Diego. I remember it cause I was at the CUBS game that day. I checked the paper and some websites and couldn't find a word about it. That did surprise me a little, as I can remember some hoopla when the CUBS won their 8,000th game back in the early part of the '82 season.

 

I remember the big deal about the Cubs 8000th win also. I vaguely recall a dispute with the Giants over who reached it first. Do you recall any details about it?

[vaball]

Giles goes to Cards and we are done for.

 

hyperbole

 

If Prior, Z and Wood are all healthy, the Cubs can beat anyone.

 

That's proven to be a big if.

very big if.

 

It's also a very big if that Rolen and Edmonds will stay healthy for an entire year or that the Cards' bullpen will remain solid. Or that the Cards rotation will remain healthy for that matter.

 

 

I'd just like to remind everyone that Rolen was injured because of a freak collision. He is NOT an injury prone player. And while Edmonds had a down year compared to the last two years he still played in 142 games and put up a .918 OPS.

[JC]

And while Edmonds had a down year compared to the last two years he still played in 142 games and put up a .918 OPS.

 

And exhausted a personal best 280 eyeliner pencils through the 2006 season.

[Jehrico]

Giles goes to Cards and we are done for.

 

hyperbole

 

If Prior, Z and Wood are all healthy, the Cubs can beat anyone.

 

That's proven to be a big if.

very big if.

 

It's also a very big if that Rolen and Edmonds will stay healthy for an entire year or that the Cards' bullpen will remain solid. Or that the Cards rotation will remain healthy for that matter.

 

 

I'd just like to remind everyone that Rolen was injured because of a freak collision. He is NOT an injury prone player. And while Edmonds had a down year compared to the last two years he still played in 142 games and put up a .918 OPS.

 

Rolen had back problems on a couple of occasions in Philly. Once someone has had back problems, they're always susceptible to more.

[Fred Hornkohl]

So the Giants won the 10,000th game in their history this season. I don't recall any hype about it. It seems that would be something MLB would rally around, or did the Bonds scandal put a damper on it?

 

Yeah, it happened on Fri 01 July in a 3-2 win in San Diego. I remember it cause I was at the CUBS game that day. I checked the paper and some websites and couldn't find a word about it. That did surprise me a little, as I can remember some hoopla when the CUBS won their 8,000th game back in the early part of the '82 season.

 

I remember the big deal about the Cubs 8000th win also. I vaguely recall a dispute with the Giants over who reached it first. Do you recall any details about it?

 

I too, vaguely remember some flack over the issue, but I don't remember any details. My bias rejected the argument out of hand at the time, so it was much easier to forget. In checking the records, I see that the Giants had already won their 8,000th game during the '81 season, so it would seem like a moot point now.

 

          1876 thru 1981                            World Series
team                        W       L     pct    PA     W     L

Chicago Cubs             7987    7324   0.522    10     2     8
San Francisco Giants     8060    6705   0.546    16     5    10

[vaball]

Giles goes to Cards and we are done for.

 

hyperbole

 

If Prior, Z and Wood are all healthy, the Cubs can beat anyone.

 

That's proven to be a big if.

very big if.

 

It's also a very big if that Rolen and Edmonds will stay healthy for an entire year or that the Cards' bullpen will remain solid. Or that the Cards rotation will remain healthy for that matter.

 

 

I'd just like to remind everyone that Rolen was injured because of a freak collision. He is NOT an injury prone player. And while Edmonds had a down year compared to the last two years he still played in 142 games and put up a .918 OPS.

 

Rolen had back problems on a couple of occasions in Philly. Once someone has had back problems, they're always susceptible to more.

 

yes, and he's had them while in st. louis too, but it rarely takes him out of the linuep.

[NorthsideAvenger]

The more I think and read about it the smaller chance I think the Cards will sign Giles. Here's the reasons:

 

1) Less payroll then I had expected.

2) How many major FA's have the Card's signed in years past?

3) There is a bigger market for Giles then I had expected.

 

I hope I'm wrong!

 

Aww....come on.... what about Tino Martinez?