The 2006 Thread, Current topic: Center Field

[Tim]

Park Factors anyone?

 

Abreu

 

Home: .304/.423/.535/.958

Away: .268/.390/.416/.806

 

Giles

 

Home: .267/.378/.417/.795

Away: .333/.463/.545/1.008

The Vet was a pitcher's stadium, though, and Abreu's numbers were just as good there.

 

I'm a kid in a candy store with these two, though, as they're my favorite non-Cubs.

 

Yeah, and Giles had a down season all around last year. I agree though that I would take either or both. Given the choice though, I'll take Giles because of the above, and the (lack of) player cost.

But why settle for just one? ;)

[SouthSideRyan]

Park Factors anyone?

 

Abreu

 

Home: .304/.423/.535/.958

Away: .268/.390/.416/.806

 

Giles

 

Home: .267/.378/.417/.795

Away: .333/.463/.545/1.008

 

Keep in mind thoughk, Abreu plays half his road games in RFK, Pro Player, Turner, and Shea, all pitchers stadiums.

 

Giles gets Coors, the BOB, Chavez, and SBC, probably slightly leaning towards hitting overall.

 

I think Home/Road splits can be useful when dealing with situations like a Petco and to a small extent Coors(hangover effect diminishes their value) but I'm certainly not ready to make a call on Abreu or Giles based on them alone (Ohhh the offseason.)

[mhuber92211]

Seriously speaking, what do you all place the odds of getting Giles being?

 

Personally I am guessing less then 5%. With those odds, I was looking elsewhere for talent and realistic opportunities. Klesko is a possibility, especially if SD pays Giles. He would provide the OBP people are looking for. I honestly think that Huff is not as bad as what we saw this season. IIRC many here wanted him last offseason especailly after Sosa was dealt.

 

If Giles is unattainable what other options are there? If Huff is not an option and people are saying no to Ibanez, who else?

[USSoccer]

Seriously speaking, what do you all place the odds of getting Giles being?

 

Personally I am guessing less then 5%. With those odds, I was looking elsewhere for talent and realistic opportunities. Klesko is a possibility, especially if SD pays Giles. He would provide the OBP people are looking for. I honestly think that Huff is not as bad as what we saw this season. IIRC many here wanted him last offseason especailly after Sosa was dealt.

 

If Giles is unattainable what other options are there? If Huff is not an option and people are saying no to Ibanez, who else?

 

Trot Nixon.

[Tim]

Seriously speaking, what do you all place the odds of getting Giles being?

 

Personally I am guessing less then 5%. With those odds, I was looking elsewhere for talent and realistic opportunities. Klesko is a possibility, especially if SD pays Giles. He would provide the OBP people are looking for. I honestly think that Huff is not as bad as what we saw this season. IIRC many here wanted him last offseason especailly after Sosa was dealt.

 

If Giles is unattainable what other options are there? If Huff is not an option and people are saying no to Ibanez, who else?

You mean the realistic odds of this Cubs regime signing him? Or the odds of doing it if I were in charge? Because I'd overpay enough to get him here. Heck I'd go 4/48 without even thinking hard. I'd go 3/45 and see if I could get a bite. I want Giles on this team enough that I'd think about 4/52 or even 4/56.

 

That kind of cash is almost enough money to buy a house for himself in southern california during the offseason. That might make it worthwhile.

 

 

 

But I don't think Hendry places as much emphasis on the things that I like as I do. So I'll be very, very suprised if we end up with Giles.

[BigbadB]

Seriously speaking, what do you all place the odds of getting Giles being?

 

Personally I am guessing less then 5%. With those odds, I was looking elsewhere for talent and realistic opportunities. Klesko is a possibility, especially if SD pays Giles. He would provide the OBP people are looking for. I honestly think that Huff is not as bad as what we saw this season. IIRC many here wanted him last offseason especailly after Sosa was dealt.

 

If Giles is unattainable what other options are there? If Huff is not an option and people are saying no to Ibanez, who else?

You mean the realistic odds of this Cubs regime signing him? Or the odds of doing it if I were in charge? Because I'd overpay enough to get him here. Heck I'd go 4/48 without even thinking hard. I'd go 3/45 and see if I could get a bite. I want Giles on this team enough that I'd think about 4/52 or even 4/56.

 

That kind of cash is almost enough money to buy a house for himself in southern california during the offseason. That might make it worthwhile.

 

 

 

But I don't think Hendry places as much emphasis on the things that I like as I do. So I'll be very, very suprised if we end up with Giles.

 

You've been gone too long, Tim. That kind of money won't buy a house here anymore. Maybe 3 years ago, but not now. :D

[USSoccer]

I think location is overrated when it comes to most ML players. They follow the contract and the chance to win, usually in that order.

 

We have a chance to win, and we can give up a contract that matches any other team's offer, if necessary. Loyalty goes only as far as the best offer. Just ask Beltran, ARod, Manny, Thome, Pudge, Sexson, Beltre...need I go on?

[Tim]

Seriously speaking, what do you all place the odds of getting Giles being?

 

Personally I am guessing less then 5%. With those odds, I was looking elsewhere for talent and realistic opportunities. Klesko is a possibility, especially if SD pays Giles. He would provide the OBP people are looking for. I honestly think that Huff is not as bad as what we saw this season. IIRC many here wanted him last offseason especailly after Sosa was dealt.

 

If Giles is unattainable what other options are there? If Huff is not an option and people are saying no to Ibanez, who else?

You mean the realistic odds of this Cubs regime signing him? Or the odds of doing it if I were in charge? Because I'd overpay enough to get him here. Heck I'd go 4/48 without even thinking hard. I'd go 3/45 and see if I could get a bite. I want Giles on this team enough that I'd think about 4/52 or even 4/56.

 

That kind of cash is almost enough money to buy a house for himself in southern california during the offseason. That might make it worthwhile.

 

 

 

But I don't think Hendry places as much emphasis on the things that I like as I do. So I'll be very, very suprised if we end up with Giles.

 

You've been gone too long, Tim. That kind of money won't buy a house here anymore. Maybe 3 years ago, but not now. :D

See, then he's better off in Chicago, anyway!

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Here's a new idea. Mark Prior for Miguel Cabrera. Straight up. Trading Prior necessitates signing someone like Millwood or Byrd, but the Cubs have the $$ this offseason.

 

Cabrera-Lee-Ramirez 3-4-5 gives me goosebumps. And Miggy is a lot cheaper than the FA outfielders, just like Prior is cheap for starting pitchers.

 

Then, you drop the bomb on the league and sign Brian Giles TOO. Again, Cubs can afford it if they're not bringing back Nomar and Burnitz.

 

Murton, Giles, Cabrera, Ramirez, Lee--I think our offensive problems would be over. :-)

[USSoccer]

Here's a new idea. Mark Prior for Miguel Cabrera. Straight up. Trading Prior necessitates signing someone like Millwood or Byrd, but the Cubs have the $$ this offseason.

 

Cabrera-Lee-Ramirez 3-4-5 gives me goosebumps. And Miggy is a lot cheaper than the FA outfielders, just like Prior is cheap for starting pitchers.

 

Then, you drop the bomb on the league and sign Brian Giles TOO. Again, Cubs can afford it if they're not bringing back Nomar and Burnitz.

 

Murton, Giles, Cabrera, Ramirez, Lee--I think our offensive problems would be over. :-)

 

No chance that happens. One side will point out the fact that Prior gets hurt too much, and the other will busily try and point out that Miggy has character issues.

 

And I would never trade Prior for Miggy. You can find a Miggy. It's harder to find #1 starters.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Here's a new idea. Mark Prior for Miguel Cabrera. Straight up. Trading Prior necessitates signing someone like Millwood or Byrd, but the Cubs have the $$ this offseason.

 

Cabrera-Lee-Ramirez 3-4-5 gives me goosebumps. And Miggy is a lot cheaper than the FA outfielders, just like Prior is cheap for starting pitchers.

 

Then, you drop the bomb on the league and sign Brian Giles TOO. Again, Cubs can afford it if they're not bringing back Nomar and Burnitz.

 

Murton, Giles, Cabrera, Ramirez, Lee--I think our offensive problems would be over. :-)

 

No chance that happens. One side will point out the fact that Prior gets hurt too much, and the other will busily try and point out that Miggy has character issues.

 

And I would never trade Prior for Miggy. You can find a Miggy. It's harder to find #1 starters.

 

This argument is as old as baseball, but I take the other side. A pitcher at his best can only help you win 20% of the team's games. A position player can help you win 100% of your team's games.

 

Further, in this case, I'm not so sure Prior is a #1 pitcher anymore. And even if he recovers to his 2003 form, Cabrera is already, at age 23, one of the five best hitters in the game.

 

I'd do Prior for Cabrera in a heartbeat, but I don't think the Fish would, and I KNOW Jim Hendry doesn't have the cajones for it. But it would improve the team.

[USSoccer]

Here's a new idea. Mark Prior for Miguel Cabrera. Straight up. Trading Prior necessitates signing someone like Millwood or Byrd, but the Cubs have the $$ this offseason.

 

Cabrera-Lee-Ramirez 3-4-5 gives me goosebumps. And Miggy is a lot cheaper than the FA outfielders, just like Prior is cheap for starting pitchers.

 

Then, you drop the bomb on the league and sign Brian Giles TOO. Again, Cubs can afford it if they're not bringing back Nomar and Burnitz.

 

Murton, Giles, Cabrera, Ramirez, Lee--I think our offensive problems would be over. :-)

 

No chance that happens. One side will point out the fact that Prior gets hurt too much, and the other will busily try and point out that Miggy has character issues.

 

And I would never trade Prior for Miggy. You can find a Miggy. It's harder to find #1 starters.

 

This argument is as old as baseball, but I take the other side. A pitcher at his best can only help you win 20% of the team's games. A position player can help you win 100% of your team's games.

 

Further, in this case, I'm not so sure Prior is a #1 pitcher anymore. And even if he recovers to his 2003 form, Cabrera is already, at age 23, one of the five best hitters in the game.

 

I'd do Prior for Cabrera in a heartbeat, but I don't think the Fish would, and I KNOW Jim Hendry doesn't have the cajones for it. But it would improve the team.

 

I think it's robbing Peter to pay Paul. You weaken your pitching, but improve your offense, so IMO it's a wash.

 

And besides, per Roast we're only supposed to decide between dealing for Abreu and signing Giles in this thread :P . So we'll have to take this one elsewhere.

[frostwyrm]

I'd overpay enough to get him here. Heck I'd go 4/48 without even thinking hard. I'd go 3/45 and see if I could get a bite. I want Giles on this team enough that I'd think about 4/52 or even 4/56.

 

I've given in to that type of thinking too. Our window is closing and we have to do what we have to do to get the big dog in the OF. No more Burnies, thank you. I'd also like to go cheap at SS(Cedeno) and LF(Murton) and get an expensive SP(Burnett/Millwood). We'd be on everyone's short list for the WS in 2006 if we followed this plan.

[frostwyrm]

Burnitz played great defense and was OK offensively, and the fans really took to him, the only change I would consider would be Giles, If not him keep Burnitz in place, on the infield, perez needs to go, he already said he would not play unless he was promised a starting position

 

no, burnitz is not good enough. there are several option in this year's abyssmal FA market that would be considered significant upgrades to burnitz. as goony said, you thank burnitz for trying his best by giving him 2 mil or under to accept a job as 4th outfielder (making sure dusty knows he's coming back for that reason and that reason alone). wait, now that i think about it, you don't bring him back at all if you want murton to develop in left field.

 

Yeah, you simply can't have a lefty-swinging veteran 4th OF with a multi-million salary if you want Murton to have a fair shot. There's no place for Burnitz on the Cubs.

[CubsWin]

I'd overpay enough to get him here. Heck I'd go 4/48 without even thinking hard. I'd go 3/45 and see if I could get a bite. I want Giles on this team enough that I'd think about 4/52 or even 4/56.

 

I've given in to that type of thinking too. Our window is closing and we have to do what we have to do to get the big dog in the OF. No more Burnies, thank you. I'd also like to go cheap at SS(Cedeno) and LF(Murton) and get an expensive SP(Burnett/Millwood). We'd be on everyone's short list for the WS in 2006 if we followed this plan.

I agree wholeheartedly with this plan, though, depending on how much Giles and Millwood wind up costing, the Cubs may not have to go cheap at SS, at least not league minimum cheap. They may still be able to afford Nomar. His bat would be a huge addition to the Cubs chances of winning it all.

[frostwyrm]

I'd overpay enough to get him here. Heck I'd go 4/48 without even thinking hard. I'd go 3/45 and see if I could get a bite. I want Giles on this team enough that I'd think about 4/52 or even 4/56.

 

I've given in to that type of thinking too. Our window is closing and we have to do what we have to do to get the big dog in the OF. No more Burnies, thank you. I'd also like to go cheap at SS(Cedeno) and LF(Murton) and get an expensive SP(Burnett/Millwood). We'd be on everyone's short list for the WS in 2006 if we followed this plan.

I agree wholeheartedly with this plan, though, depending on how much Giles and Millwood wind up costing, the Cubs may not have to go cheap at SS, at least not league minimum cheap. They may still be able to afford Nomar. His bat would be a huge addition to the Cubs chances of winning it all.

 

I assume we're looking at a low-base/high-incentive situation for Nomar, and if you're counting beans you have to reckon on Nomar's incentives kicking in, in which case he probably won't be very cheap at all. And do we really need his defense at SS? I can think of other needs to fill with Nomar's $$. It would be nice to have a non-terrible bench, esecially since Dusty likes to use the backups so much, and I want a respectable caretaker CF.

[mhuber92211]

Seriously speaking, what do you all place the odds of getting Giles being?

 

Personally I am guessing less then 5%. With those odds, I was looking elsewhere for talent and realistic opportunities. Klesko is a possibility, especially if SD pays Giles. He would provide the OBP people are looking for. I honestly think that Huff is not as bad as what we saw this season. IIRC many here wanted him last offseason especailly after Sosa was dealt.

 

If Giles is unattainable what other options are there? If Huff is not an option and people are saying no to Ibanez, who else?

 

Trot Nixon.

 

Why would Trot Nixon be anywhere close to available?

 

Since the prevailing thought here is for Giles but the odds are against the current regime of signing him, then who else?

 

No offense but Prior for Cabrera would never happen. Why would the Marlins trade away Cabrera for anyone at this point? I could understand if he was making some money but his salary isn't even in the 1 million dollar range yet! I seriously doubt that he is a concern for the Marlins.

 

So in the real world, who is an option if Giles is not available?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

It's possible we could see a trade for a RF. Mench is a possibility. Kearns could be made available as could Pena. There's been the Abereu rumors, but I don't put much stock in them. So, basically, if we don't get Mench, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Cubs trade for someone who can play rf.

[USSoccer]

Seriously speaking, what do you all place the odds of getting Giles being?

 

Personally I am guessing less then 5%. With those odds, I was looking elsewhere for talent and realistic opportunities. Klesko is a possibility, especially if SD pays Giles. He would provide the OBP people are looking for. I honestly think that Huff is not as bad as what we saw this season. IIRC many here wanted him last offseason especailly after Sosa was dealt.

 

If Giles is unattainable what other options are there? If Huff is not an option and people are saying no to Ibanez, who else?

 

Trot Nixon.

 

Why would Trot Nixon be anywhere close to available?

 

Since the prevailing thought here is for Giles but the odds are against the current regime of signing him, then who else?

 

No offense but Prior for Cabrera would never happen. Why would the Marlins trade away Cabrera for anyone at this point? I could understand if he was making some money but his salary isn't even in the 1 million dollar range yet! I seriously doubt that he is a concern for the Marlins.

 

So in the real world, who is an option if Giles is not available?

 

I was kidding about Nixon.

[CubfaninCA]

I'd overpay enough to get him here. Heck I'd go 4/48 without even thinking hard. I'd go 3/45 and see if I could get a bite. I want Giles on this team enough that I'd think about 4/52 or even 4/56.

 

I've given in to that type of thinking too. Our window is closing and we have to do what we have to do to get the big dog in the OF. No more Burnies, thank you. I'd also like to go cheap at SS(Cedeno) and LF(Murton) and get an expensive SP(Burnett/Millwood). We'd be on everyone's short list for the WS in 2006 if we followed this plan.

 

Giles & Milwood are two definite must gets. 4 and 52 for Giles is reasonable. Although I see his obp dropping some, as the Cubs would have more protection behind him. However, his ops should go up.

 

How would big contracts for Giles and Milwood effect deals for Prior and Z down the road though?? Am assuming Wood will be playing his last year w/ the Cubs. Since it seems Hendry really values pitching, I don't see him giving anyone a deal over 4 years or over $10 million a year, as he'll continue to sock away money for Z and Prior. Thus Furcal may be his biggest pickup.

[goonys evil twin]

Why would Trot Nixon be anywhere close to available?

 

He's been rumored to be part of many past deals in Boston. He's missed significant time in each of the past three years. He's not anywhere close to elite. His numbers against lefties practically scream platoon player. He has one year left on his deal then becomes a free agent. Boston needs pitching in the worst way. There current payroll situation is quite screwy. Clement, Renteria, Foulke, Schilling are all signed for a few more years but are not likely to live up to their salaries. If they decide to keep Damon, I could easily see them move Nixon for pitching.

[gflore34]

Is speculating about Giles realistic? We all know how this one's going to turn out, he'll let the Cubs Wine and Dine him ultimately to spurn their offer citing a desire to remain on the West Coast. Then of course, the blasted Cardinals will say boo to him and he'll sign with them for less years and money.

 

As for who is going to patrol RF, I believe Hendry is going to go the trade route. Quite probably for a Juan Encarnacion type...

[goonys evil twin]

Is speculating about Giles realistic? We all know how this one's going to turn out, he'll let the Cubs Wine and Dine him ultimately to spurn their offer citing a desire to remain on the West Coast. Then of course, the blasted Cardinals will say boo to him and he'll sign with them for less years and money.

 

It's completely realistic. They have the money and the need. There's no reason they can't sign him. Any GM worth his salt could convince that type of player to come to Chicago with the available cash.

 

Now, I won't predict it will happen, but there's absolutely no reason why it couldn't.

[soapy]

I keep having this recurring nightmare that Jacque Jones is our RFer in 2006.

[YearofDaCubs]

Is speculating about Giles realistic? We all know how this one's going to turn out, he'll let the Cubs Wine and Dine him ultimately to spurn their offer citing a desire to remain on the West Coast. Then of course, the blasted Cardinals will say boo to him and he'll sign with them for less years and money.

 

As for who is going to patrol RF, I believe Hendry is going to go the trade route. Quite probably for a Juan Encarnacion type...

That type won't get us anywhere. You can take that to the bank.