The 2006 Thread, Current topic: Center Field

[Tim]

I may have mentioned this once or twice, but I'd like Brian Giles for RF, please. :D

[USSoccer]

What would giles cost, do you think?

 

3/$36m with a club option for a 4th year gets it done.

[Roast]

What would giles cost, do you think?

 

3/$36m with a club option for a 4th year gets it done.

 

I could live with that.

[Tim]

I predict the Cubs have to guarantee the 4th year to get him off the west coast.

 

I'd do it. Without any hesitation whatsoever.

[USSoccer]

I predict the Cubs have to guarantee the 4th year to get him off the west coast.

 

I'd do it. Without any hesitation whatsoever.

 

 

Me too. It fits pretty nicely with what's basically our window of opportunity.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Yeah, I'd go with 4 years with Brian Giles. Like Tim, I'd like to trade him before his decline.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Give Giles a 4/42 contract.

[Jazz]

Give Giles a 4/42 contract.

 

Hopefully Pie and Murton pan out well so that even if giles is underproducing 2-3 years into his contract, it wont hurt as badly.

[mhuber92211]

Putting Huff and Manny in the same group is not a good comparison. Huff is much cheaper then Manny and would provide better offensive numbers then Murton.

 

But I think that the question you raise warrants discussion and that is would Huff's projected offense be worth the expense he would incur (likely close to 6 million). Personally I believe that we can afford Huff's contract and still acquire another impact OF bat and not be tied up for future raises for Prior and Z. I think that part of the bonus with Huff is that he can fill in for AR & Lee without a huge drop off in offensive production (assuming Murton would play LF during these rest times) and thus protecting AR from injury and Lee from becoming too tired to continue being at his most effective.

 

To me Huff is a more logical acquisition then just giving Murton the job. It gives the team more offensive options and wouldn't come at a great cost or block any development. Huff is going into his last year of Arb eligibilty so potentially if it doesn't work out the Cubs could just let him walk and allow Pie and others to take over (or start again). The other cost question would be how much in terms of talent would Huff cost? Likely less then last offseason when (allegedlly) the Cubs attempted to deal. Would you trade Hill and a rule 5 eligible pitcher for him? Would that get it done? I think that it would be a fair trade (maybe you would have to include another throw in like Lewis). I think that its worth it.

 

Have you seen Huff's numbers this year? They're pretty terrible for a corner OF.

 

Agreed, thats why he would be cheaper this offseason after his better year in '04 we we all wanted him to replace Sosa.

[mhuber92211]

As for RF I would like to acquire Ibanez from the Mariners. Less expensive then Giles and would allow for the Cubs to spend FA money in '06 offseason when there are better FA available.

 

Also Luis Gonzalez might be available for cheap.

[CubsWin]

As for RF I would like to acquire Ibanez from the Mariners. Less expensive then Giles and would allow for the Cubs to spend FA money in '06 offseason when there are better FA available.

 

Also Luis Gonzalez might be available for cheap.

Luis Gonzalez? Raul Ibanez? Why? How can getting these guys give the Cubs a better chance of winning a World Series than signing Brian Giles.

 

The difference in production between Huff/Ibanez and Giles/Murton, is pretty big. The difference in OBP alone makes Giles/Murton the clear winner, and that's just from a production standpoint. Giles is likely to cost around 11-12 million a year. Murton will make league minimum. When you consider that Huff/Ibanez made just under 10 million last season, and that Giles/Murton wouldn't cost the Cubs any players to get, then one has to wonder why you are recommending Huff/Ibanez.

 

About the only benefit getting Ibanez gives the Cubs is the ability to spend money on '06 free agents. Is that worth giving up on the entire '05 season? Of the players that are scheduled to be free agents in '06, who is that much better than Brian Giles that the Cubs should "wait" for him?

 

Have you looked at Giles' numbers away from the spacious Petco Park this season? .333/.463/.545. That's a road OPS of over 1.000. I realize this next stat has a very small sample size, but over a three year span (2002-2004), Giles has hit .463/.593/1.073 in Wrigley Field. Enough with the penny pinching. Brian Giles is the answer. I wanted the Cubs to sign Beltran last year but not throw the bank at him. I want the Cubs to throw the bank at Brian Giles this off season. If he is at all willing to leave the west coast, then there are no excuses. Get it done.

[CubsWin]

Just to recap. We have discussed SS, 2B, LF and we're now on RF, correct?

 

1. Nomar at 5 mill plus incentives with Cedeno backing up.

2. Pick up the option on Walker. (Possible trade)

3. Murton

 

I see Giles taking this in a landslide, so I'm penciling him in RF.

 

But this is just message board talk. If the Cubs actually sign Brian Giles, do we realize the impact he would have on this team? His one signing alone could change everything. He can be counted on to produce at the low end .290/.390/.510, and he's left-handed.

 

Now add the emergence of Cedeno and the possibility of a healthy Nomar for 130 games. Now add the pretty strong possibility of Murton putting up .285/.360/.450 in LF. Walker is Walker. He'll give you an OPS around .800. He may miss a few games, but Cedeno is there. Now add Lee, who takes a couple of steps back but still puts up .290/.380/.520. Now add Ramirez, Barrett, and whomever in CF. That's better than good.

 

But, if you remove Giles from that picture, the Cubs aren't that much different than what they were this year.

 

I'll say it again. Break the bank if you have to, but sign Brian Giles.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Just to recap. We have discussed SS, 2B, LF and we're now on RF, correct?

 

1. Nomar at 5 mill plus incentives with Cedeno backing up.

2. Pick up the option on Walker. (Possible trade)

3. Murton

 

I see Giles taking this in a landslide, so I'm penciling him in RF.

 

But this is just message board talk. If the Cubs actually sign Brian Giles, do we realize the impact he would have on this team? His one signing alone could change everything. He can be counted on to produce at the low end .290/.390/.510, and he's left-handed.

 

Now add the emergence of Cedeno and the possibility of a healthy Nomar for 130 games. Now add the pretty strong possibility of Murton putting up .285/.360/.450 in LF. Walker is Walker. He'll give you an OPS around .800. He may miss a few games, but Cedeno is there. Now add Lee, who takes a couple of steps back but still puts up .290/.380/.520. Now add Ramirez, Barrett, and whomever in CF. That's better than good.

 

But, if you remove Giles from that picture, the Cubs aren't that much different than what they were this year.

 

I'll say it again. Break the bank if you have to, but sign Brian Giles.

 

Giles power numbers are falling and I think it's safe to assume they'll be declining in the next 3-4 years as well. His SLG hasn't been over .490 since he's been in San Diego (IMO it's not reasonable to assume a line of .290/.390/.510. It looks like his plate discipline is returning though, after his OBP nose dived after '02 (75 points).

 

Giles is a good deal better than what we have in RF, but it seems like he's going to regress in the next couple of years. I'm not sold on him, that's all.

 

Break the bank for him? Sure, why not. His OPS is 2nd in MLB for right fielders. :)

[RynoRules]

I like Giles, don't get me wrong.

 

But, as I have poisted several times, Manny is a once-in-a-time hitter, arguably the most consistent in the game over the last 5-7 years. His career OPS is 1.1.00, his on-base is always over .400, and he's two years younger than Giles.

 

The notion that Manny is a "butcher" in the field has taken on a life of its own at this point. You don't win a title with a guy in LF who can't play; and remember, half of those games are not in Fenway. If we get a CFer with good range, that should compensate.

 

I know that Giles is an FA, so we only need fork over some dough to get him. But, c'mon fellas, lets take this talent we have been stocking in the minors for a ride! Epstein wants talent, yes, but he also craves payroll flexibility, much like his mentor.

 

Manny is an amazingly consistent hitter and a HOFer. Lets do this.

[Jazz]

I like Giles, don't get me wrong.

 

But, as I have poisted several times, Manny is a once-in-a-time hitter, arguably the most consistent in the game over the last 5-7 years. His career OPS is 1.1.00, his on-base is always over .400, and he's two years younger than Giles.

 

The notion that Manny is a "butcher" in the field has taken on a life of its own at this point. You don't win a title with a guy in LF who can't play; and remember, half of those games are not in Fenway. If we get a CFer with good range, that should compensate.

 

I know that Giles is an FA, so we only need fork over some dough to get him. But, c'mon fellas, lets take this talent we have been stocking in the minors for a ride! Epstein wants talent, yes, but he also craves payroll flexibility, much like his mentor.

 

Manny is an amazingly consistent hitter and a HOFer. Lets do this.

 

2 things

 

1. Getting the right deal for him:

There are a couple ways that you can go about it. You can give up the farm for him, and the red sox would only pickup a little more than half of the his salary. You can also offer to take on most of the contract, and give mininal prospects.

 

2. Boston isnt necessarily aching him to trade him. Hes still the same manny that hes been for the past 3-4 years, and hes worth every penny. I think the wanting to be trading hype is just construed by the New England media at the trade deadline.

 

 

Giles can give us about 75% of the production that Manny would give us at a smaller price, now i would be all for getting Manny if the circumstances would allow it, but Giles is the biggest Offensive threat to come into the FA market in the last 2 years, and we need to jump on this oppurtunity. Im drooling at what his home power splits would be at wrigley.

[ittoxx]

I'm not worry about Giles low slg%, Giles will provide the plate dicipline that Cubs hitters dont have (besides Lee & Walker).

 

I think that Giles will sign a lower contract than everybody thinks. What about 3/32, 4/40?

 

Furcal ss

Murton lf

Lee 1B

Giles RF

Ramirez 3B

Nomar 2B

Pie CF

Barrett C

[mg420]

i would like to see the cubs trade for wilkerson to play cf & floyd for rf with murton in lf. the 06 lineup would then be:

 

wilkerson

murton

lee

floyd

aram

walker

cedeno

barrett

[rawaction]

I'm not worry about Giles low slg%, Giles will provide the plate dicipline that Cubs hitters dont have (besides Lee & Walker).

 

I think that Giles will sign a lower contract than everybody thinks. What about 3/32, 4/40?

 

Furcal ss

Murton lf

Lee 1B

Giles RF

Ramirez 3B

Nomar 2B

Pie CF

Barrett C

 

There's gonna be a lot of competition for Giles. Both LA teams, St Louis, and his current San Diego team are gonna bid high for him. I think it takes at least $12M/season and probably 4 years.

 

And there's no way the Cubs are signing Giles, Furcal, and Nomar. I'd take Giles if I only had the choice of one. And I'd go with Cedeno at SS, Walker at 2B, and anyone but Pie in CF.

[rawaction]

i would like to see the cubs trade for wilkerson to play cf & floyd for rf with murton in lf. the 06 lineup would then be:

 

wilkerson

murton

lee

floyd

aram

walker

cedeno

barrett

 

That's a solid plan B. Giles should be Plan A. If you can't get him, get 2 solid players of the caliber you mentioned.

[mg420]

i would like to see the cubs trade for wilkerson to play cf & floyd for rf with murton in lf. the 06 lineup would then be:

 

wilkerson

murton

lee

floyd

aram

walker

cedeno

barrett

 

That's a solid plan B. Giles should be Plan A. If you can't get him, get 2 solid players of the caliber you mentioned.

 

from what i've heard, floyd is available but wilkerson is a ? mark. he's had a very bad year but just signed a multi year contract. maybe if robinson likes patterson as much as i'e heard he does, the nats would take novoa & cp for wilkerson. no idea what the mets would want for floyd.

[rawaction]

 

from what i've heard, floyd is available but wilkerson is a ? mark. he's had a very bad year but just signed a multi year contract. maybe if robinson likes patterson as much as i'e heard he does, the nats would take novoa & cp for wilkerson. no idea what the mets would want for floyd.

 

You never know with Wilkerson. The Nats have a ton of OFs. Jose Guillen is gonna be in RF next year. They have Ryan Church who has outproduced Wilkerson in limited time this year. Then they still have Sledge, Wilson, Byrd and others. The other position Wilkerson can play is 1B, and Nick Johnson is there. I think they let Wilson go this offseason, but they will look for a big bat this offseason. If they can't get a proven OF bat, I think they happily hold on to Wilkerson.

[USSoccer]

I like Giles, don't get me wrong.

 

But, as I have poisted several times, Manny is a once-in-a-time hitter, arguably the most consistent in the game over the last 5-7 years. His career OPS is 1.1.00, his on-base is always over .400, and he's two years younger than Giles.

 

The notion that Manny is a "butcher" in the field has taken on a life of its own at this point. You don't win a title with a guy in LF who can't play; and remember, half of those games are not in Fenway. If we get a CFer with good range, that should compensate.

 

I know that Giles is an FA, so we only need fork over some dough to get him. But, c'mon fellas, lets take this talent we have been stocking in the minors for a ride! Epstein wants talent, yes, but he also craves payroll flexibility, much like his mentor.

 

Manny is an amazingly consistent hitter and a HOFer. Lets do this.

 

What talent? I'm sorry, but our minor league system is lucky if it's in the top 10 of all ML. We have 1 blue chip position prospect even close to ML ready, and the rest of our decent position prospects are either high-celing guys in A ball, or guys who have only had one year of success. We don't even have all that much great pitching right now. Nolasco doesn't project to be a top starter, and Pinto has control issues. Hill isn't a blue chipper, but could be a good 4th or 5th starter. Boston, if they trade Manny at all isn't going to want our marginal prospects, and we're not going to trade Pie. So what if Theo wants payroll flexibility?He's not in Oakland with $50 million dollars to play with. The whole "Beane Protoge" thing simply extends to the philosiphy he uses when constructing a team, but Epstein has $150m to work with. He's want that felxibility to spend it one someone and the FA class this winter is thin. IF they trade Manny, they will want a major leaguer who is an impact player. Can you imagine the Boston press if they traded Manny to us for prospects? They'd be all over it. And Manny in LF is one thing-Manny in RF is an entirely different beast.

 

Giles is the logical choice, hands down, and we can outbid any team for him if necessary.

[BigbadB]

Just to recap. We have discussed SS, 2B, LF and we're now on RF, correct?

 

1. Nomar at 5 mill plus incentives with Cedeno backing up.

2. Pick up the option on Walker. (Possible trade)

3. Murton

 

I see Giles taking this in a landslide, so I'm penciling him in RF.

 

But this is just message board talk. If the Cubs actually sign Brian Giles, do we realize the impact he would have on this team? His one signing alone could change everything. He can be counted on to produce at the low end .290/.390/.510, and he's left-handed.

 

Now add the emergence of Cedeno and the possibility of a healthy Nomar for 130 games. Now add the pretty strong possibility of Murton putting up .285/.360/.450 in LF. Walker is Walker. He'll give you an OPS around .800. He may miss a few games, but Cedeno is there. Now add Lee, who takes a couple of steps back but still puts up .290/.380/.520. Now add Ramirez, Barrett, and whomever in CF. That's better than good.

 

But, if you remove Giles from that picture, the Cubs aren't that much different than what they were this year.

 

I'll say it again. Break the bank if you have to, but sign Brian Giles.

 

Giles power numbers are falling and I think it's safe to assume they'll be declining in the next 3-4 years as well. His SLG hasn't been over .490 since he's been in San Diego (IMO it's not reasonable to assume a line of .290/.390/.510. It looks like his plate discipline is returning though, after his OBP nose dived after '02 (75 points).

 

Giles is a good deal better than what we have in RF, but it seems like he's going to regress in the next couple of years. I'm not sold on him, that's all.

 

Break the bank for him? Sure, why not. His OPS is 2nd in MLB for right fielders. :)

 

Giles' power numbers are not falling. He's just as strong now as he was in Pittsburgh. He is a perfect example of "park effect". His only drop off in anything since he left Pittsburgh (extreme hitter's park) for San Diego (extreme pitcher's park) is XBH's. He's even been vocal about it. He's not the only one complaining about it. Everyone on the team sees a huge spike in their SLG numbers when calling Petco Park home.

 

Someone gave Giles road numbers so I won't repeat them. But, I will show you his 3 year splits on OPS of 2002-2004 in the two divisions he has played the most.

 

LA-.858

SD-

AZ-.831

CO-.839

SF-.855

 

CHC-1.666

CIN-1.280

STL-1.069

MIL-1.075

HOU-.690

PIT-1.047

 

Petco isn't listed. His 2005 splits at Petco are .795 this year and 1.008 on the road. In 2004, his splits were .864 at home and .834 away.

 

Giles has an OPS that mirrors what Derrek Lee did all year or better in the division that would matter most. If you look at his stats, the only real drop off in anything since he moved to San Diego is SLG and HR's. And as stated above, there is a perfectly good reason for that drop off. Park effect. San Diego ranks 25th in the Major Leagues in home runs this year. They ranked 27th in 2004, their first year in Petco.

 

Giles will be worth whatever money needs to be spent to bring him here.

[Backtobanks]

The Dayton Daily News is reporting that Pena and/or Kearns might be available this offseason now that Griffey has proven to be able to play for the whole season. Obviously, they want pitching. If the Cubs can resign Rusch and use any combination of Rusch, Williams, Mitre, Hill, Welly, plus position players like Patterson, Walker, and prospects, I think that might solve one OF position. For free agents, Giles is the choice if we can outbid all of the other teams. The advantage of getting Kearns or Pena is that they are both young enough to fit into plans for the next 5 years.

[Gunned]

I haven't scrolled through this entire thread, so maybe this has been mentioned. But it surprised me.

 

A snippet from a Philly.com article:

 

The Arizona GM's job appears to be wide-open, with Diamondbacks CEO Jeff Moorad, a former agent, saying that highly regarded scouting director Mike Rizzo will not be a candidate ... As an agent, Moorad had many dealings with the Phillies. It would not be surprising to see him interview Ruben Amaro Jr., the Phils' assistant GM. It's likely that the Phils will investigate trading Pat Burrell and Bobby Abreu, both of whom have no-trade clauses. Burrell might waive his to play for Moorad's D'backs. Moorad was his agent

 

That's just in the tidbits section of the article, which is about several other things. But with Abreu's little post-HR Derby hiccup, maybe his price tag is down a little bit.

 

OK, probably not. But it's fun to think about, and if he's at all available, Hendry should be beating down the door.