So it's begun... (Lawton to Yankees)

[CP_414]

Surely the poster can't be advocating playing Neifi every day.

 

If defense won championships, you'd see a heck of a lot more Augie Ojedas around.

 

Defense is important, yes, but not so important to sacrifice offensive production.

 

Now, if we could find a guy who can hit like Walker who is a wizard with the glove, ok, pull the trigger. However, don't go for that defensive wizard who can't hit a lick. That gets you nowhere.

I agree with you. I'm just sick of watching Walker takling the baseball @ 2nd. Not to single him out, but Aram,Barrett & Nomar are also avg. to below avg defenders. Hitting is very important to create runs. However, a good defense behind a decent pitching staff is also very important & is a major ingredient in winning championships. Ex. Marlins of 03'. There was not a better defensive IF in MLB. The key here is finding the complete ball player. I just feel, Todd Walker is not it.

 

And you may be right. However, there aren't really any "complete" 2B men out there to be had right now, and Walker is the best option we have.

 

If they do happen to find a "complete" 2B in the offseason, fine, trade Walker. However, they'd be stupid to do anything without an adequate backup.

Orlando Hudson is a more complete player than is T. Walker. O. Hudson would be a great fit for the Cubs.

 

He's also a great fit for the Blue Jays.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I doubt it will happen, but I would love to see the Cubs trade for O.Hudson. Isn't he a FA this coming off-season?

 

No, not until after 2008.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Surely the poster can't be advocating playing Neifi every day.

 

If defense won championships, you'd see a heck of a lot more Augie Ojedas around.

 

Defense is important, yes, but not so important to sacrifice offensive production.

 

Now, if we could find a guy who can hit like Walker who is a wizard with the glove, ok, pull the trigger. However, don't go for that defensive wizard who can't hit a lick. That gets you nowhere.

I agree with you. I'm just sick of watching Walker takling the baseball @ 2nd. Not to single him out, but Aram,Barrett & Nomar are also avg. to below avg defenders. Hitting is very important to create runs. However, a good defense behind a decent pitching staff is also very important & is a major ingredient in winning championships. Ex. Marlins of 03'. There was not a better defensive IF in MLB. The key here is finding the complete ball player. I just feel, Todd Walker is not it.

 

And you may be right. However, there aren't really any "complete" 2B men out there to be had right now, and Walker is the best option we have.

 

If they do happen to find a "complete" 2B in the offseason, fine, trade Walker. However, they'd be stupid to do anything without an adequate backup.

Orlando Hudson is a more complete player than is T. Walker. O. Hudson would be a great fit for the Cubs.

 

Hudson is pretty subpar at the plate. It's one thing to argue that his combination of hitting and defense is better than Walker's, but he's not a more "complete" second baseman. His strength is just in another aspect of the game.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I know alot of people on here wont like the suggestion, but i think that trading walker may be a good move. The twins have been looking for a 2b all season and they have some good prospects, if the Cubs could get some good prospects for him i think they should consider moving him.

That would be an excellent move, Walker is a defensive liability & the Cubs do have Hairston & Neifi who can play 2nd along with rosters expanding on Sept. 1st.

 

I've been hearing that knock on Walker for awhile and yet I've not seen anything definitive to prove that point. From what I've seen, Hairston was more a defensive liability at second than Walker has been, and whatever defense Perez may bring does not make up for his blackhole of offense. Walker's defense + offensive contributuins > >>>> Perez's defensive + offensive contributions.

[YearofDaCubs]

The Score is reporting that the fire sale has begun, and Burnitz and Walker are the 2 most likely candidates to be the next to be traded.

 

We might be able to get something relatively decent for Burnitz, as condenders are (seemingly) always looking for a lefty power bat.

 

However, if we trade Walker I will be really pissed. He's our best hitter this year behind Lee and Ramirez, he has a cheap option, and there aren't a lot of better options out there in the offseason.

 

Now, if we upgrade at 2nd in the offseason, ok, then trade him. But not until.

It's to the point that I could care less if Walker goes as well. SHip him off for a prospect and play Hairston next year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The Score is reporting that the fire sale has begun, and Burnitz and Walker are the 2 most likely candidates to be the next to be traded.

 

We might be able to get something relatively decent for Burnitz, as condenders are (seemingly) always looking for a lefty power bat.

 

However, if we trade Walker I will be really pissed. He's our best hitter this year behind Lee and Ramirez, he has a cheap option, and there aren't a lot of better options out there in the offseason.

 

Now, if we upgrade at 2nd in the offseason, ok, then trade him. But not until.

It's to the point that I could care less if Walker goes as well. SHip him off for a prospect and play Hairston next year.

 

Why? We'd just be getting worse for the sake of change.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The Score is reporting that the fire sale has begun, and Burnitz and Walker are the 2 most likely candidates to be the next to be traded.

 

We might be able to get something relatively decent for Burnitz, as condenders are (seemingly) always looking for a lefty power bat.

 

However, if we trade Walker I will be really pissed. He's our best hitter this year behind Lee and Ramirez, he has a cheap option, and there aren't a lot of better options out there in the offseason.

 

Now, if we upgrade at 2nd in the offseason, ok, then trade him. But not until.

It's to the point that I could care less if Walker goes as well. SHip him off for a prospect and play Hairston next year.

 

If we swap Walker's production for Hairston, we will take a step down in secondbase production for 2006.

[TXCubsFan]

The Score is reporting that the fire sale has begun, and Burnitz and Walker are the 2 most likely candidates to be the next to be traded.

 

We might be able to get something relatively decent for Burnitz, as condenders are (seemingly) always looking for a lefty power bat.

 

However, if we trade Walker I will be really pissed. He's our best hitter this year behind Lee and Ramirez, he has a cheap option, and there aren't a lot of better options out there in the offseason.

 

Now, if we upgrade at 2nd in the offseason, ok, then trade him. But not until.

It's to the point that I could care less if Walker goes as well. SHip him off for a prospect and play Hairston next year.

 

If we swap Walker's production for Hairston, we will take a step down in secondbase production for 2006.

 

I wonder if Garciaparra is ready to try 2B in 2006. A troika of Cedeno at SS, Nomar at 2B and Neifi! as backup would work well. Ronny could gradually break into the bigs, and you could rest Nomar to keep him healthy.

 

Besides, having Nomar at 2B would give time for EPatt to develop.

[TXCubsFan]

The Score is reporting that the fire sale has begun, and Burnitz and Walker are the 2 most likely candidates to be the next to be traded.

 

We might be able to get something relatively decent for Burnitz, as condenders are (seemingly) always looking for a lefty power bat.

 

Is it still legal to sell players? I would rather get $1 million in cash plus the buyout for Burnitz than some mid-level propect. $1.5 is the difference between a Macias and a 2 million dollar bench bat (Branyan or someone with a big bat).

 

Usually GMs include an organizational minor league player as a fig leaf in those deals.

[AAApittsburgh]

The Score is reporting that the fire sale has begun, and Burnitz and Walker are the 2 most likely candidates to be the next to be traded.

 

We might be able to get something relatively decent for Burnitz, as condenders are (seemingly) always looking for a lefty power bat.

 

However, if we trade Walker I will be really pissed. He's our best hitter this year behind Lee and Ramirez, he has a cheap option, and there aren't a lot of better options out there in the offseason.

 

Now, if we upgrade at 2nd in the offseason, ok, then trade him. But not until.

It's to the point that I could care less if Walker goes as well. SHip him off for a prospect and play Hairston next year.

 

If we swap Walker's production for Hairston, we will take a step down in secondbase production for 2006.

 

I wonder if Garciaparra is ready to try 2B in 2006. A troika of Cedeno at SS, Nomar at 2B and Neifi! as backup would work well. Ronny could gradually break into the bigs, and you could rest Nomar to keep him healthy.

 

Besides, having Nomar at 2B would give time for EPatt to develop.

But can Nomar outproduce Walker? At this point in his career, I'm not sure he can. So you'd basically be paying shortstop money for a 2B when Walker can give you the same production for less money without changing positions.

[erik316wttn]

The Score is reporting that the fire sale has begun, and Burnitz and Walker are the 2 most likely candidates to be the next to be traded.

 

We might be able to get something relatively decent for Burnitz, as condenders are (seemingly) always looking for a lefty power bat.

 

However, if we trade Walker I will be really pissed. He's our best hitter this year behind Lee and Ramirez, he has a cheap option, and there aren't a lot of better options out there in the offseason.

 

Now, if we upgrade at 2nd in the offseason, ok, then trade him. But not until.

It's to the point that I could care less if Walker goes as well. SHip him off for a prospect and play Hairston next year.

 

If we swap Walker's production for Hairston, we will take a step down in secondbase production for 2006.

 

I wonder if Garciaparra is ready to try 2B in 2006. A troika of Cedeno at SS, Nomar at 2B and Neifi! as backup would work well. Ronny could gradually break into the bigs, and you could rest Nomar to keep him healthy.

 

Besides, having Nomar at 2B would give time for EPatt to develop.

 

In theory you may be right. May.

 

However, if Neifi is on this roster, he'll be staring somewhere as long as Dusty is managing. It's foolish to think otherwise.

[CUBZ99]

The Score is reporting that the fire sale has begun, and Burnitz and Walker are the 2 most likely candidates to be the next to be traded.

 

We might be able to get something relatively decent for Burnitz, as condenders are (seemingly) always looking for a lefty power bat.

 

However, if we trade Walker I will be really pissed. He's our best hitter this year behind Lee and Ramirez, he has a cheap option, and there aren't a lot of better options out there in the offseason.

 

Now, if we upgrade at 2nd in the offseason, ok, then trade him. But not until.

It's to the point that I could care less if Walker goes as well. SHip him off for a prospect and play Hairston next year.

 

If we swap Walker's production for Hairston, we will take a step down in secondbase production for 2006.

 

I'm pretty sure that Hairston isn't in the Cubs plans for next year either.

[TXCubsFan]

The Score is reporting that the fire sale has begun, and Burnitz and Walker are the 2 most likely candidates to be the next to be traded.

 

We might be able to get something relatively decent for Burnitz, as condenders are (seemingly) always looking for a lefty power bat.

 

However, if we trade Walker I will be really pissed. He's our best hitter this year behind Lee and Ramirez, he has a cheap option, and there aren't a lot of better options out there in the offseason.

 

Now, if we upgrade at 2nd in the offseason, ok, then trade him. But not until.

It's to the point that I could care less if Walker goes as well. SHip him off for a prospect and play Hairston next year.

 

If we swap Walker's production for Hairston, we will take a step down in secondbase production for 2006.

 

I wonder if Garciaparra is ready to try 2B in 2006. A troika of Cedeno at SS, Nomar at 2B and Neifi! as backup would work well. Ronny could gradually break into the bigs, and you could rest Nomar to keep him healthy.

 

Besides, having Nomar at 2B would give time for EPatt to develop.

 

In theory you may be right. May.

 

However, if Neifi is on this roster, he'll be staring somewhere as long as Dusty is managing. It's foolish to think otherwise.

 

True, that is a real risk with Dusty. But perhaps with a different manager...

[TXCubsFan]

The Score is reporting that the fire sale has begun, and Burnitz and Walker are the 2 most likely candidates to be the next to be traded.

 

We might be able to get something relatively decent for Burnitz, as condenders are (seemingly) always looking for a lefty power bat.

 

However, if we trade Walker I will be really pissed. He's our best hitter this year behind Lee and Ramirez, he has a cheap option, and there aren't a lot of better options out there in the offseason.

 

Now, if we upgrade at 2nd in the offseason, ok, then trade him. But not until.

 

Trading Walker and Burnitz might give Hendry a chance to trade Mitre or Aardsma as well to meet some of the Cubs' pressing needs.

[YearofDaCubs]

The Score is reporting that the fire sale has begun, and Burnitz and Walker are the 2 most likely candidates to be the next to be traded.

 

We might be able to get something relatively decent for Burnitz, as condenders are (seemingly) always looking for a lefty power bat.

 

However, if we trade Walker I will be really pissed. He's our best hitter this year behind Lee and Ramirez, he has a cheap option, and there aren't a lot of better options out there in the offseason.

 

Now, if we upgrade at 2nd in the offseason, ok, then trade him. But not until.

 

Trading Walker and Burnitz might give Hendry a chance to trade Mitre or Aardsma as well to meet some of the Cubs' pressing needs.

If we truly want to be successful next year we will have to trade.

[Quakers]

How much money did the Cubs save by trading away Lawton?

[ToupeeOnFire]

It would be a huge mistake to get rid of Walker. As others have pointed out, he provides a good bat for a relatively cheap price. But more importantly, next year the Cubs -- depending on what direction they decide to take -- could be looking at holes to fill at all three OF positions along with SS (not to mention the potential retirement of Greg Maddux). Why create another uncertainty when you already have a perfectly good in-house option? Given the fact that the Cubs will have a limited amount to spend, I would prefer that they have fewer holes to fill, thus using the available money on a few higher caliber players rather than having to spread it around amongst lower priced detritus. The Cubs haven't actually grasped the concept of low cost replacement talent.

[JeffH]

the potential retirement of Greg Maddux

 

Ha! There's no way he's walking away from nine million bucks.

 

After all, a guy's gotta eat (and play golf, too).

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

is this the Lawton thread? :?

[NorthsideAvenger]

Since I have been at work on a Saturday, and then come home to a Cubs loss :( , I figure I cliff notes my thoughts:

 

On the trade of Matt Lawton:

 

I wasn't disappointed in trading Dubois, and I am still not disappointed in that Jason Dubois turned out to be Justin Berg. So, this series of events wasn't too suprising. Lawton's a FA, and the Cubs gave him a LEGIT chance at winning. I wish they could've gotten my boy Andy Phillips, but oh well.

 

 

On the Bartosh for Bay deal:

 

I definately in the minority here, but I still see Bartosh as a solid 2nd LEFTY in the bullpen. What people don't realize that the Cubs have the MOST INCOMPETENT coaching staff---this side of Kansas City. With a REAL PC---wish we could get Rick Petersen---I think he could turn into solid reliever. I don't regret the trade, at all.

 

 

Walker/Burnitz trade?

 

Trading Burnitz, is a foregone conclusion. But trading Walker is a murkier decision. If it doesn't improve the team for 2006 and beyond (considering his production, and his $$$, the Cubs SHOULD get a very good---not necessarily a blue-chip prospect---prospect or two seeing as they DON'T have to trade him) then it isn't a good deal. Walker for JC Romero would be a great deal (not that I expect that kind of offer) for the Cubs. Walker for 2 25 yr old "org players" is not a good deal. Don't trade for the sake of trade, make a trade with a PURPOSE.

Edited August 28, 2005 by NorthsideAvenger

[wastra]

So was McClain already on the 40-man, or is he yet another guy taking a spot that JVB could have?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

So was McClain already on the 40-man, or is he yet another guy taking a spot that JVB could have?

 

McClain was not on the 40 man. He took Lawton's spot. I don't think the organization shares your opinion of JVB.

[Mizzou]

So we traded Jason Dubois.................. for a Yankee prospect? Youch.

 

As for trading Walker, that would be one of the dumbest moves yet. The Cubs have an option on him for what, 2.5 million next season? Unless they come away with a PHENOMENAL trade, then Walker shouldn't go anywhere. Burnitz, sure, dump him. His option is a bit high if I recall, so I don't see him fitting in next year. Might as well get something for him.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

So we traded Jason Dubois.................. for a Yankee prospect? Youch.

 

As for trading Walker, that would be one of the dumbest moves yet. The Cubs have an option on him for what, 2.5 million next season? Unless they come away with a PHENOMENAL trade, then Walker shouldn't go anywhere. Burnitz, sure, dump him. His option is a bit high if I recall, so I don't see him fitting in next year. Might as well get something for him.

Dubois will be a career minor leaguer, nothing else.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

So we traded Jason Dubois.................. for a Yankee prospect? Youch.

 

As for trading Walker, that would be one of the dumbest moves yet. The Cubs have an option on him for what, 2.5 million next season? Unless they come away with a PHENOMENAL trade, then Walker shouldn't go anywhere. Burnitz, sure, dump him. His option is a bit high if I recall, so I don't see him fitting in next year. Might as well get something for him.

Dubois will be a career minor leaguer, nothing else.

 

Normally when people make statements as fact, they try and back that up with some sort of rationale, logic, statistics, etc.