Roster Move Coming on Friday?

[abuck1220]

i'd dfa hollandsworth, as there is no need for a left handed back up to a left handed starting lf. and now that macias is swinging relatively well, hollandsworth isn't even the first lh bat off the bench.

 

i think the cubs will send welly down. w/ williams available in the pen, they would essentially have 13 pitchers if they kept todd.

 

there's also a chance they send murton down...only a baker managed team would keep hollandsworth over murton at this point in the season given the cubs place in the standings. these wins over st. lou and houston have been fun, but all they've probably done is put off the chance to see murton, hill, welly, cedeno.

[CubsWin]

i'd dfa hollandsworth, as there is no need for a left handed back up to a left handed starting lf. and now that macias is swinging relatively well, hollandsworth isn't even the first lh bat off the bench.

 

i think the cubs will send welly down. w/ williams available in the pen, they would essentially have 13 pitchers if they kept todd.

 

there's also a chance they send murton down...only a baker managed team would keep hollandsworth over murton at this point in the season given the cubs place in the standings. these wins over st. lou and houston have been fun, but all they've probably done is put off the chance to see murton, hill, welly, cedeno.

I'd rather trade Hollandsworth than designate him for assignment. Granted, the Cubs won't get much for him, but something is still better than nothing in my book.

 

And while I agree the likely result of taking 5 of 7 from St. Louis and Houston is a bunch of nothing, strange things happen in baseball all the time. Being 5 1/2 back with 41 games left to play means there is still a chance and while there is one I would rather play to win, then give up and start playing prospects. That said, I don't think playing Murton is giving up in any way shape or form. Baker's idea of who gives us the best chance at winning is different from mine, but regardless, I would run the line-up out there that gave the Cubs the best chance of winning that day until they are mathematically out of it.

 

I believe if the Astros can get hot, they can also cool off. I believe if the Astros can get hot, so can the Cubs. Its possible and so long as it is possible, I don't want to give up on anything just yet.

[NorthsideAvenger]

i'd dfa hollandsworth, as there is no need for a left handed back up to a left handed starting lf. and now that macias is swinging relatively well, hollandsworth isn't even the first lh bat off the bench.

 

i think the cubs will send welly down. w/ williams available in the pen, they would essentially have 13 pitchers if they kept todd.

 

there's also a chance they send murton down...only a baker managed team would keep hollandsworth over murton at this point in the season given the cubs place in the standings. these wins over st. lou and houston have been fun, but all they've probably done is put off the chance to see murton, hill, welly, cedeno.

I'd rather trade Hollandsworth than designate him for assignment. Granted, the Cubs won't get much for him, but something is still better than nothing in my book.

 

And while I agree the likely result of taking 5 of 7 from St. Louis and Houston is a bunch of nothing, strange things happen in baseball all the time. Being 5 1/2 back with 41 games left to play means there is still a chance and while there is one I would rather play to win, then give up and start playing prospects. That said, I don't think playing Murton is giving up in any way shape or form. Baker's idea of who gives us the best chance at winning is different from mine, but regardless, I would run the line-up out there that gave the Cubs the best chance of winning that day until they are mathematically out of it.

 

I believe if the Astros can get hot, they can also cool off. I believe if the Astros can get hot, so can the Cubs. Its possible and so long as it is possible, I don't want to give up on anything just yet.

 

Yeah, but if the Cubs are to make the playoffs, they need to better at fundamentals, but according to Baker's logic, he doesn't see fundamentals being significant.

 

With that said, the Cubs SHOULDN'T be trying to pass the Astros right now. They need to focus on getting pass the Mets, then the Nats, so and so. Pass ONE team at a time, begining with the Mets.

[cbbryan]

Sounds like Walker might not be here next season.

 

Where's that coming from? I know his option isn't likely to vest, but I figured at the price of the team option, he'd be a lock to return.

The way I see it he cleared waivers, his option won't vest, he's getting older, and we also have Hairston.

 

I may be in the minority here, but Hairston hasn't shown me anything great really, maybe with more constant playtime he will come around, could just be me in general hehe.

 

Agreed. Hairston hasn't done much of anything to blow my skirt up. He has zero power, little patience (I know he's got a decent OBP, but isn't a lot of that due to a ridiculously high HBP rate?), and a much worse glove than I could have ever expected. I'd MUCH prefer Walker full-time at 2B next season.

 

TripJ, I never knew!

 

http://www.skirtman.org/domualr2.jpg

[CubsWin]

i'd dfa hollandsworth, as there is no need for a left handed back up to a left handed starting lf. and now that macias is swinging relatively well, hollandsworth isn't even the first lh bat off the bench.

 

i think the cubs will send welly down. w/ williams available in the pen, they would essentially have 13 pitchers if they kept todd.

 

there's also a chance they send murton down...only a baker managed team would keep hollandsworth over murton at this point in the season given the cubs place in the standings. these wins over st. lou and houston have been fun, but all they've probably done is put off the chance to see murton, hill, welly, cedeno.

I'd rather trade Hollandsworth than designate him for assignment. Granted, the Cubs won't get much for him, but something is still better than nothing in my book.

 

And while I agree the likely result of taking 5 of 7 from St. Louis and Houston is a bunch of nothing, strange things happen in baseball all the time. Being 5 1/2 back with 41 games left to play means there is still a chance and while there is one I would rather play to win, then give up and start playing prospects. That said, I don't think playing Murton is giving up in any way shape or form. Baker's idea of who gives us the best chance at winning is different from mine, but regardless, I would run the line-up out there that gave the Cubs the best chance of winning that day until they are mathematically out of it.

 

I believe if the Astros can get hot, they can also cool off. I believe if the Astros can get hot, so can the Cubs. Its possible and so long as it is possible, I don't want to give up on anything just yet.

 

Yeah, but if the Cubs are to make the playoffs, they need to better at fundamentals, but according to Baker's logic, he doesn't see fundamentals being significant.

 

With that said, the Cubs SHOULDN'T be trying to pass the Astros right now. They need to focus on getting pass the Mets, then the Nats, so and so. Pass ONE team at a time, begining with the Mets.

Well, thats all you can do is pass one team at a time. The nice thing about 4 of the 5 teams ahead of the Cubs is that they will be playing each other a lot in the next 40 games. If they split a lot of series against each other, they will be standing still and a lot easier to pass in the standings.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the Cubs shouldn't be trying to pass the Astros right now, though. I don't think the Cubs are trying to pass anybody right now. I think their focus is on winning the game that they are currently playing. They haven't been very good at that so far this season, but teams get hot. Even ones that are managed by Dusty Baker. :wink:

[CubsInNC]

The biggest problem to this, is we're "So close in the Wild Card" that they won't throw in the towel.

 

I'd trade the following for anyone non-40 man rostered, or a starting CF:

Burnitz, Perez, Macias, Hollandsworth, Blanco, most of the Rule V'ers.

 

Aside from Burnitz, I'd be willing to DFA the other 4.

 

Assuming any of those guys would clear waivers, or try to make a trade with the team who would claim them...

 

Then I would activate:

Greenberg, Hairston

 

And call up:

Cedeno, Grieve, Soto

 

My lineup would look like:

RF Lawton/Murton

SS Nomar/Cedeno

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

LF Murton/Greenberg

2B Walker/Hairston

C Barrett/Soto

CF Patterson/Anyone else who can play it well defensively

 

Basically I'm saying let the youngsters play this year, and see what we can make up in the offseason.

 

 

What Dusty will do:

Stick Macias and Neifi out there every day. Demote Patterson, and platoon Macias and Hairston in CF. Because those 2 make a lot of money, so they have to play.

[biittner77]

I'd trade/ release Hollandsworth.

Demoting Wellemeyer makes too much sense.

The Cubs will demote Murton. Hairston platoons with Lawton, making the lineup vs. LH starters look like this:

 

LF Hairston

2nd Neifi F. Perez

Lee

Ramirez

Nomar

Barrett

Burnitz/ Macias

Patterson

 

Lawton and Walker against RH pitchers.

 

Why is corey patterson all of a sudden a lock in center field?....the guy hasn't changed his swing very much..before .232/.379/.270 through 8 games .236/.388/.274 , the other night he struck out on a fastball at his head and a ball in the dirt to andy pettite, patterson should platoon with hairston

 

Because defense in CF is really important. If Hairston doesn't get to a ball it's a double. From a defensive standpoint it's very hard to give up CF defense because the result is more extra base hits, more runners in scoring position and ultimately more runs.

 

If Greenberg was ready perhaps they'd give him a chance. For the time being Patterson should be the starting CF and take whatever offense he provides as a bonus. That's the advantage of having a catcher and a SS that can hit.

[Nobody youd want to know]

Then I would activate:

Greenberg, Hairston

 

Didn't I read somewhere that Greenberg's back in Mesa, still recuperating from the beanball? I feel really bad for him, and hope he recovers soon...

[biittner77]

Then I would activate:

Greenberg, Hairston

 

Didn't I read somewhere that Greenberg's back in Mesa, still recuperating from the beanball? I feel really bad for him, and hope he recovers soon...

 

I seem to remember that too. I think the article I read said he'd be a Sept. call up if all goes well.

[SAMMYWHO]

Hairston and Cedeno up. Welly down. Perez gone. Anyway you can. DFA or trade him. Hairston backs up Center, left and second and Cedeno plays short and a maybe a little second. Plus we get down to 11 pitchers.

[Wheelimus]

If there were any chance of them letting Neifi go, they would have let the claiming them have him when they put him on waivers.

[BobRoss139]

You guys would rather release Macias than send Welly down? Give me a break...

[AAApittsburgh]

You guys would rather release Macias than send Welly down? Give me a break...

Yes.

[BobRoss139]

I forgot, a lot of you guys expect the bench guys to have starter-quality stats. Of course.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I forgot, a lot of you guys expect the bench guys to have starter-quality stats. Of course.

 

Macias is terrible, there's only been a couple non-catchers in the NL worse than him this year that have near as many PA's as him. He's terrible compared to bench players too.

[SouthSideRyan]

I forgot, a lot of you guys expect the bench guys to have starter-quality stats. Of course.

 

He's not treated as what he is. He isn't treated as a guy to fill in in emergency situations. Instead, he's the first [expletive] bat off the bench in crucial situations, not to mention spot starting EVERYWHERE.

[YearofDaCubs]

I forgot, a lot of you guys expect the bench guys to have starter-quality stats. Of course.

 

He's not treated as what he is. He isn't treated as a guy to fill in in emergency situations. Instead, he's the first [expletive] bat off the bench in crucial situations, not to mention spot starting EVERYWHERE.

I also think that his double-play ratio leads the team. Not good.

[TripJ]

I forgot, a lot of you guys expect the bench guys to have starter-quality stats. Of course.

 

He's not treated as what he is. He isn't treated as a guy to fill in in emergency situations. Instead, he's the first [expletive] bat off the bench in crucial situations, not to mention spot starting EVERYWHERE.

I also think that his double-play ratio leads the team. Not good.

 

I agree that he's not a great player, but there are a lot of guys on this team that have been worse.

 

He's not even close to possessing the lowest OPS on the team (Blanco, Patterson, and Nomar are worse), and really isn't that much lower than Holla, Neifi, and Hairston.

 

Not enough?

 

He also possesses better OBP than Neifi, Holla, Blanco, and Dubois (at least when he was here).

 

Again, I'm not saying Jose Macias is a good baseball player. I won't even argue he's an average one.

 

I guess if there are only a handful of non-catchers in the NL that are worse than he is, they must be all Cubs, and I guess that would explain a lot about this season.

[CubsWin]

I forgot, a lot of you guys expect the bench guys to have starter-quality stats. Of course.

 

He's not treated as what he is. He isn't treated as a guy to fill in in emergency situations. Instead, he's the first [expletive] bat off the bench in crucial situations, not to mention spot starting EVERYWHERE.

I also think that his double-play ratio leads the team. Not good.

 

I agree that he's not a great player, but there are a lot of guys on this team that have been worse.

 

He's not even close to possessing the lowest OPS on the team (Blanco, Patterson, and Nomar are worse), and really isn't that much lower than Holla, Neifi, and Hairston.

 

Not enough?

 

He also possesses better OBP than Neifi, Holla, Blanco, and Dubois (at least when he was here).

 

Again, I'm not saying Jose Macias is a good baseball player. I won't even argue he's an average one.

 

I guess if there are only a handful of non-catchers in the NL that are worse than he is, they must be all Cubs, and I guess that would explain a lot about this season.

Bob and TripJ,

 

I have never understood the overreaction to acquiring Macias and the ongoing, outright hatred of him as a player. The moment the Cubs traded Wilton Chavez to the Expos for Jose, the condemnation of Hendry and that trade began. Macias was immediately labeled "worthless". If we look back on that trade now, one would have to say that Hendry got the better of the deal. What has Chavez done? Nothing. So the trade got the Cubs something for nothing, that seems to be Hendry's trademark.

 

Has that something been misused or overused by his manager? In my opinion, yes. Does that mean that Macias is "worthless" as a baseball player? Uh, no. He brings some athleticism, adequate defensive versatility and a history of being able to get a hit off the bench or otherwise. Is he a great player? No. Is he good? Not really. Is he a valuable 25th man? Yes. Is OBP and OPS the only valid measure of a baseball player? No.

 

I could be wrong and I don't mean to start anything here, but it seems like those that continue to call Macias "worthless" are only doing so because they don't want to admit that their knee-jerk reaction to his acquistion was inaccurate. There is just too much evidence that suggests he is not "worthless".

[CubsWin]

I forgot, a lot of you guys expect the bench guys to have starter-quality stats. Of course.

 

Macias is terrible, there's only been a couple non-catchers in the NL worse than him this year that have near as many PA's as him. He's terrible compared to bench players too.

CPatt,

 

That is simply not true.

 

I just did a check of every team's stats. I quit after looking at the first 9 teams because every one of them had at least one player (non-catchers, mind you) who was comparable to or worse than Jose Macias has been this season. We might like to believe that there are enough good players out there such that Macias wouldn't make any major league team if cut from the Cubs, but that simply isn't accurate. Those that have faulted or continue to fault Hendry for having Macias on this roster are simply mistaken and apparently haven't done their homework in this regard.

 

Macias has played the middle infield, 3B and some OF for the Cubs and has hit .294/.312/.353 in 119 ABs. Here is a short list of players who play the same positions for other teams, have comparable or worse numbers and have a similar amount of ABs or more.

 

Marlon Byrd. Jamey Carroll. Quinton McCracken. David Newhan. Pablo Ozuna. Timo Perez. D'Angelo Jimenez. Jose Hernandez. Corey Sullivan. Desi Relaford.

 

Every one of those players has more ABs than Macias this season except for Jimenez who has just 14 less than him. Also, most of those players have performed considerably worse than Jose has this season, and I only checked about 1/3 of the league. There was generally one per team and often times more. To say that "there's only been a couple non-catchers in the NL worse than him this year that have near as many PA's as him. He's terrible compared to bench players too" is simply not the truth.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I forgot, a lot of you guys expect the bench guys to have starter-quality stats. Of course.

 

Macias is terrible, there's only been a couple non-catchers in the NL worse than him this year that have near as many PA's as him. He's terrible compared to bench players too.

CPatt,

 

That is simply not true.

 

I just did a check of every team's stats. I quit after looking at the first 9 teams because every one of them had at least one player (non-catchers, mind you) who was comparable to or worse than Jose Macias has been this season. We might like to believe that there are enough good players out there such that Macias wouldn't make any major league team if cut from the Cubs, but that simply isn't accurate. Those that have faulted or continue to fault Hendry for having Macias on this roster are simply mistaken and apparently haven't done their homework in this regard.

 

Macias has played the middle infield, 3B and some OF for the Cubs and has hit .294/.312/.353 in 119 ABs. Here is a short list of players who play the same positions for other teams, have comparable or worse numbers and have a similar amount of ABs or more.

 

Marlon Byrd. Jamey Carroll. Quinton McCracken. David Newhan. Pablo Ozuna. Timo Perez. D'Angelo Jimenez. Jose Hernandez. Corey Sullivan. Desi Relaford.

 

Every one of those players has more ABs than Macias this season except for Jimenez who has just 14 less than him. Also, most of those players have performed considerably worse than Jose has this season, and I only checked about 1/3 of the league. There was generally one per team and often times more. To say that "there's only been a couple non-catchers in the NL worse than him this year that have near as many PA's as him. He's terrible compared to bench players too" is simply not the truth.

 

I already did the legwork a week or so ago. Going by Runs Created, Macias only had 5-6 non-catchers that were worse than him in the NL with at least 100 PA's. Grissom, Mondesi, Guzman, a dodgers OF(can't remember which, Grabowski?), and at least one Rockie. I'll do it again to see if anything has changed.

[CubsWin]

I forgot, a lot of you guys expect the bench guys to have starter-quality stats. Of course.

 

Macias is terrible, there's only been a couple non-catchers in the NL worse than him this year that have near as many PA's as him. He's terrible compared to bench players too.

CPatt,

 

That is simply not true.

 

I just did a check of every team's stats. I quit after looking at the first 9 teams because every one of them had at least one player (non-catchers, mind you) who was comparable to or worse than Jose Macias has been this season. We might like to believe that there are enough good players out there such that Macias wouldn't make any major league team if cut from the Cubs, but that simply isn't accurate. Those that have faulted or continue to fault Hendry for having Macias on this roster are simply mistaken and apparently haven't done their homework in this regard.

 

Macias has played the middle infield, 3B and some OF for the Cubs and has hit .294/.312/.353 in 119 ABs. Here is a short list of players who play the same positions for other teams, have comparable or worse numbers and have a similar amount of ABs or more.

 

Marlon Byrd. Jamey Carroll. Quinton McCracken. David Newhan. Pablo Ozuna. Timo Perez. D'Angelo Jimenez. Jose Hernandez. Corey Sullivan. Desi Relaford.

 

Every one of those players has more ABs than Macias this season except for Jimenez who has just 14 less than him. Also, most of those players have performed considerably worse than Jose has this season, and I only checked about 1/3 of the league. There was generally one per team and often times more. To say that "there's only been a couple non-catchers in the NL worse than him this year that have near as many PA's as him. He's terrible compared to bench players too" is simply not the truth.

 

I already did the legwork a week or so ago. Going by Runs Created, Macias only had 5-6 non-catchers that were worse than him in the NL with at least 100 PA's. Grissom, Mondesi, Guzman, a dodgers OF(can't remember which, Grabowski?), and at least one Rockie. I'll do it again to see if anything has changed.

I don't know from runs created, but if OBP and SLG are the criteria, there are several others that are worse than Macias.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Macias is at 3.6 RC/G, which is a pretty big step up from his numbers of a couple weeks ago(2.8). Before I look any of it up, I'm guessing there are going to be more players that he has outperformed than before. Macias has 128 PA's, so I'll set the minimum at 120. Here are the NL non-catchers worse than him:

 

Corey Patterson (Demoted previously)

Quentin McCracken

Alex Cintron

Raul Mondesi (released)

Dustan Mohr

Desi Relaford (DFA'd)

Chris Burke

Jose Vizcaino

Cesar Izturis

Mike Edwards (Demoted)

Jason Grabowski

J.J. Hardy

Junior Spivey

Chris Magruder

Kaz Matsui

Tomas Perez

David Bell

Jack Wilson

Sean Burroughs (Demoted)

Cristian Guzman

 

So with his recent surge, Macias is better than 15 non-catchers who have been in the big leagues all year.

[treebird]

Macias is at 3.6 RC/G, which is a pretty big step up from his numbers of a couple weeks ago(2.8). Before I look any of it up, I'm guessing there are going to be more players that he has outperformed than before. Macias has 128 PA's, so I'll set the minimum at 120. Here are the NL non-catchers worse than him:

 

Corey Patterson (Demoted previously)

Quentin McCracken

Alex Cintron

Raul Mondesi (released)

Dustan Mohr

Desi Relaford (DFA'd)

Chris Burke

Jose Vizcaino

Cesar Izturis

Mike Edwards (Demoted)

Jason Grabowski

J.J. Hardy

Junior Spivey

Chris Magruder

Kaz Matsui

Tomas Perez

David Bell

Jack Wilson

Sean Burroughs (Demoted)

Cristian Guzman

 

So with his recent surge, Macias is better than 15 non-catchers who have been in the big leagues all year.

 

and pretty much all of those guys have some underlying reason (basically either past success or huge contract) to explain why they'd still be on a team.

[NewUserName]

so basically it has taken a recent hot streak to move up the list.

 

I really dont mind Jose Macias. It is just another example of Dusty not using his resources properly. As a 25th man, pinch run some, early pinch hitter if the starter is bad, spot starter at 3rd. Basically what Dusty had Cedeno doing when he was up. If he ever plays CF again we had better have run out of all possible options. What is silly is he did it several days in a row. He also pinch hits way to much for a guy who is awful at it. If you take away his pinch hitting numbers he is almost credible.