Woulda, coulda, shoulda....

[Cubzfan64]

Kyle Farnsworh is putting together an excellent season for Detroit and it'll be interesting to see if he gets put into the closer role now with Percival out and if so, how he will perform.

 

My questions are along the lines of:

 

1. Is this just another "flukey" season of Farnsworth's that happens to be an up year?

 

2. Was the trade from Chicago a "wake up call" to him which caused him to finally connect the raw talent with consistent performance?

 

3. Are the Cubs unable to effectively coach underperforming players (like Farnsworth and Patterson) where another team may have that ability?

 

4. What do you think the odds are we'll look back on the Farnsworth trade and wish we hadn't have made it?

 

Just curious what the general concensus is on Kyle - he was a real piece of work that's for sure but I have to wonder if maybe the Cubs organization just isn't good at dealing with younger players who need coaching.

[USSoccer]

The problem with Kyle was always that he was good early, which caused Baker to lean on him too much (similar to how Wuertz has been used hard this year), use him in 8 out of 10 straight games, and then he'd wear down by July or August.

 

I wish we had Kyle, personally. He'd look very good in the 8th inning before Dempster.

[Roast]

 

I wish we had Kyle, personally. He'd look very good in the 8th inning before Dempster.

 

Word.

 

He actually closed the game for detroit last night. He is taking over for percival since he is injured.

[rawaction]

Kyle Farnsworh is putting together an excellent season for Detroit and it'll be interesting to see if he gets put into the closer role now with Percival out and if so, how he will perform.

 

My questions are along the lines of:

 

1. Is this just another "flukey" season of Farnsworth's that happens to be an up year?

 

2. Was the trade from Chicago a "wake up call" to him which caused him to finally connect the raw talent with consistent performance?

 

3. Are the Cubs unable to effectively coach underperforming players (like Farnsworth and Patterson) where another team may have that ability?

 

4. What do you think the odds are we'll look back on the Farnsworth trade and wish we hadn't have made it?

 

Just curious what the general concensus is on Kyle - he was a real piece of work that's for sure but I have to wonder if maybe the Cubs organization just isn't good at dealing with younger players who need coaching.

 

1. No. He's a good pitcher. Always has been when used properly. When he has been bad, it's been a 2nd half thing....after he was used a ton in the 1st half.

 

2. Probably has something to do with it too.

 

4. I don't know. If he was a problem in the clubhouse, I don't think they'd want him back. If the move was just performance based, then probably.

 

#3 is very interesting to me. I don't think the coaching staff is good enough to help a player get thru struggles with basic mechanics. We've seen it with Patterson, Farnsworth, Choi, and even Wood. Of course, then there are guys like Barrett, Rusch and Ramirez who have thrived in Cub uniforms. But I credit those guys' improvement more to the fact that they all had previous flashes in other organizations and that the whole change of scenery thing may have helped. Not sure that's fair, but I don't trust this coaching staff's ability to help out a young slumping player.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I liked Farnsy, but he seems to be the type of player that needs a smaller market team to help him succeed. The pressure of Wrigley gets to a lot of players with potential (eg CPat).

 

It's going to be interesting seeing how Farnsworth does in the closer's role. He may crumble under the pressure, or he could show us the potential we all knew he had in him.

 

I don't think he's laid back enough to be a closer, but we'll see. You get rocked sooner or later with the game on the line and how you bounce back is what makes a closer good.

[Balsa]

I think we all know Da Farns is crazy enough to be a closer. No way he's gonna crack under that pressure.

 

I'll bet that this a fluke year for him though. I wouldn't expect anything above average for this second half.

[biittner77]

Dennis Eckersley said that his drinking problems were much worse when he played for the Cubs because of the day games. If the reports of Farnsworth's active night life were true perhaps that's been a factor in his success. The biggest factor, howver, has been use patterns. It appears the Tigers haven't been using him on 3 days in a row as much as Baker did.

 

Who was that other hard throwing RH the Cubs had a couple years ago? He was supposed to be the closer of the future but never could adjust to the role. I think the Cubs traded him to the Phillies and he pitched for the Dodgers.

[ChiblueTNT]

Dennis Eckersley said that his drinking problems were much worse when he played for the Cubs because of the day games. If the reports of Farnsworth's active night life were true perhaps that's been a factor in his success. The biggest factor, howver, has been use patterns. It appears the Tigers haven't been using him on 3 days in a row as much as Baker did.

 

Who was that other hard throwing RH the Cubs had a couple years ago? He was supposed to be the closer of the future but never could adjust to the role. I think the Cubs traded him to the Phillies and he pitched for the Dodgers.

 

Francis Beltran.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Dennis Eckersley said that his drinking problems were much worse when he played for the Cubs because of the day games. If the reports of Farnsworth's active night life were true perhaps that's been a factor in his success. The biggest factor, howver, has been use patterns. It appears the Tigers haven't been using him on 3 days in a row as much as Baker did.

 

Who was that other hard throwing RH the Cubs had a couple years ago? He was supposed to be the closer of the future but never could adjust to the role. I think the Cubs traded him to the Phillies and he pitched for the Dodgers.

 

Francis Beltran.

He was traded to the Expos and is now out for the year with some sort of shoulder tear. Not sure who biittner is talking about but I think he would remember Francis.

[JeffH]

Terry Adams.

 

Traded to the Dodgers in the deal for "Blisters" Valdez and EY.

[biittner77]

Thanks,

 

Terry Adams: more or less talent than Fransworth?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Thanks,

 

Terry Adams: more or less talent than Fransworth?

 

I'd say less talent.

[Larry Horse]

I'm more ticked that Ray King was let go. He's been nails the last two years. I would imagine he's been more effective than Remlinger.

[Uber]

Farns closed tonight as well, K'd the side. 2 Saves in 2 nights. Sure glad I held onto him in fantasy league.

[Cubzfan64]

Kyle has immensely more talent than Adams had - his problem has always been consistency. He'd look like an All Star one second and a A league pitcher the next.

 

I recall when the Cubs made the trade that Kyle's father mentioned that hopefully this would be a wake-up call for him - so far in 2005 I'd say that's true - he's been one of the better late inning relief pitchers in the big leagues so far.

 

I sure wish he could have put all that together for Chicago - he would have been an instant hero.

[WindyCity]

Farns closed tonight as well, K'd the side. 2 Saves in 2 nights. Sure glad I held onto him in fantasy league.

 

I caught the last out and he looked fantastic. His fastball was an absolute laser @ 99. He seems to have a new grip on his breaking pitch or altered his delivery. He was throwing it at 85 dead center in the strike zone and the bottom drop out of it as it reached the plate. After blowing the heat by the guy, that pitch was deadly. Much much better than the sliders off the plate he tried to throw pitch after pitch last year.

 

The Tigers should not go back to Percival IMO -- if he comes back healthy, I think they will try and deal him.

[ltb]

The Tigers should not go back to Percival IMO -- if he comes back healthy, I think they will try and deal him.

 

they'll have a fun time doing that, i'm sure :)

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Thanks,

 

Terry Adams: more or less talent than Fransworth?

 

I'd say less talent.

 

Without a doubt.

[biittner77]

Thanks,

 

Terry Adams: more or less talent than Fransworth?

 

I'd say less talent.

 

Without a doubt.

 

I'm not so sure. It's been a while since I saw Adams. Farnsworth has a better fastball but not by much. Adams had better command and was a lot steadier whereas Farnsworth has been either dominant or horrible.

 

Maybe Farnsworth has more raw talent but Adams made better use of what he had.

[neely crenshaw]

couple things on farns:

first he benefits from pitching in detroit. the yard is huge and you do not give up cheap homeruns like at wrigley. as hard as he throws if someone gets a ball up off him it will carry...

second: he has been overused.i agree with that post completely. dusty/rothschild would get in a pattern and go with it no matter what. remingler in the 7th, farns in the 8th and hawkins 9 (or whoever played closer) it didn't matter how many days in row they had thrown or if the guy was absolutely on fire..he threw his inning and then made a change. just once i would have liked to see dusty stay with the pitcher that went 1-2-3 the inning before at least to start an inning. no pitcher will be on every single day so this strategy seemed to ask for someone to blow up.

 

finally i always felt that farns would be better somewhere else. i mean he throws 98-99 but after the hitters see woody,prior,z and (at the time clement) go 94-98 all day it's not that big a deal to see farns come in a couple of mph's higher. it would be interesting to see how farns did when maddux and rusch started..that's where i think he would be really tough to handle!

[Transmogrified Tiger]

couple things on farns:

first he benefits from pitching in detroit. the yard is huge and you do not give up cheap homeruns like at wrigley. as hard as he throws if someone gets a ball up off him it will carry...

 

Kyle's numbers are pretty similar at home and away, with the home numbers being slightly better. He's only given up one home run this year, and it was on the road. That's the only XBH he's given up on the road. His IsoP Against are identical for home/road.

[JeffH]

Adams had better command and was a lot steadier whereas Farnsworth has been either dominant or horrible.

 

Terry Adams had better command than Kyle Farnsworth? OK...

 

Adams had some of the worst command of the fastball I've ever seen.

[WoodRules]

#3 is very interesting to me. I don't think the coaching staff is good enough to help a player get thru struggles with basic mechanics. We've seen it with Patterson, Farnsworth, Choi, and even Wood. Of course, then there are guys like Barrett, Rusch and Ramirez who have thrived in Cub uniforms. But I credit those guys' improvement more to the fact that they all had previous flashes in other organizations and that the whole change of scenery thing may have helped. Not sure that's fair, but I don't trust this coaching staff's ability to help out a young slumping player.

 

Nah, It's not fair because because all ex-Cubs we are talking about here had "flashes" with us.

[badger1679666666]

I understand eventually as an organization, you give up on people, I just wish the Cubs didn't give up on a 6'4", 99/100 mph flamethrower.

 

I thought this was a horrible move from the beginning, but everyone cited his character and mental problems. Mental my , a%% you can't teach 100 mph. You stay extra patient for that kind of stuff. and now he has a 1.80 ERA with a great WHIP. We wouldn't need that in our pen would we Hendry?

[katway]

Farnsworth didn't get traded for lack of talent... even though his fastball is fairly flat and hittable (even at 100 mph). Clearly, the club felt they needed to get rid of him because of his attitude. Farns would still be here if he had matured. The trade, in and of itself, may have been a big wake up call for him since nothing else seemed to work.