Bruce Levine Thinks NL Wild Card May Turn on Dunn Deal

[mhuber92211]

I think that this could be Hendry's way of getting the guy he really wants. Keep in the Dunn Sweepstakes and drive up the price and then go get Huff while the other teams are squabbling it out. Given our lineup with Lee & Ramirez in the middle of it for a few years, I would like to have Huff and slot him #5. Yes Dunn us a good ballplayer but Huff is of the same quality. He is in the ballpark talentwise.

[fearthecubs]

I find it extremely humurous how you're attacking Washington being "lucky" and them "evening out". Maybe when the Cubs have 50+ wins at the break, we can critique how other teams are getting it done. It is NO coincidence we succeeded with Lofton in 2003. This team has needed a leadoff hitter for a DECADE. We've had players like Dunn before - Dawson, Sosa, etc. What we havent had is a Juan Pierre - oh wait, we did for the second half of 2003 and exploded. We also did quite well when Patterson hit .330 at the top of the order, and didnt we just sweep Florida with Hairston leading off?

 

DUNN IS NOT THE ANSWER

[jtownie]

I find it extremely humurous how you're attacking Washington being "lucky" and them "evening out". Maybe when the Cubs have 50+ wins at the break, we can critique how other teams are getting it done. It is NO coincidence we succeeded with Lofton in 2003. This team has needed a leadoff hitter for a DECADE. We've had players like Dunn before - Dawson, Sosa, etc. What we havent had is a Juan Pierre - oh wait, we did for the second half of 2003 and exploded. We also did quite well when Patterson hit .330 at the top of the order, and didnt we just sweep Florida with Hairston leading off?

 

DUNN IS NOT THE ANSWER

 

why do we need a lead-off hitter if we have one, named Jerr hairston. You said it yourself, didn't we just sweep Florida with him in the lineup? So if we have our lead off man, why not go after another big run producer named Adam Dunn?

[Halman]

What we havent had is a Juan Pierre - oh wait, we did for the second half of 2003 and exploded. We also did quite well when Patterson hit .330 at the top of the order, and didnt we just sweep Florida with Hairston leading off?

 

DUNN IS NOT THE ANSWER

 

Juan Pierre isn't the answer either. He is simply one of the most overrated players in baseball. He walks about the same amount "in terms of total walks" as Patterson. Is a bad baserunner. Has a horrible arm and has no power. No, thanks I'll take Dunn's Flaws and stick with JHjr. in CF.

[Proven Veteran]

I find it extremely humurous how you're attacking Washington being "lucky" and them "evening out". Maybe when the Cubs have 50+ wins at the break, we can critique how other teams are getting it done. It is NO coincidence we succeeded with Lofton in 2003. This team has needed a leadoff hitter for a DECADE. We've had players like Dunn before - Dawson, Sosa, etc. What we havent had is a Juan Pierre - oh wait, we did for the second half of 2003 and exploded. We also did quite well when Patterson hit .330 at the top of the order, and didnt we just sweep Florida with Hairston leading off?

 

DUNN IS NOT THE ANSWER

 

 

Dunn gets on base much much more than Dawson did. Dawson had a career .323 OBP. Dunn is at .382 for his Career.

[fearthecubs]

Edit: double post Edited July 14, 2005 by fearthecubs

[fearthecubs]

I find it extremely humurous how you're attacking Washington being "lucky" and them "evening out". Maybe when the Cubs have 50+ wins at the break, we can critique how other teams are getting it done. It is NO coincidence we succeeded with Lofton in 2003. This team has needed a leadoff hitter for a DECADE. We've had players like Dunn before - Dawson, Sosa, etc. What we havent had is a Juan Pierre - oh wait, we did for the second half of 2003 and exploded. We also did quite well when Patterson hit .330 at the top of the order, and didnt we just sweep Florida with Hairston leading off?

 

DUNN IS NOT THE ANSWER

 

why do we need a lead-off hitter if we have one, named Jerr hairston. You said it yourself, didn't we just sweep Florida with him in the lineup? So if we have our lead off man, why not go after another big run producer named Adam Dunn?

 

Because Hairston is not long for Chicago - for multiple reasons, mainly like Ive said before, the Cubs brass seems to think he is a stupid baseball player. And we need more than one leadoff type hitter anyway.

[Halman]

 

Because Hairston is not long for Chicago - for multiple reasons, mainly like Ive said before, the Cubs brass seems to think he is a stupid baseball player. And we need more than one leadoff type hitter anyway.

 

Todd Walker is no longer a leadoff guy???

[fearthecubs]

I've gotta hit the sack, its 3am here. I invite any of you to continue this conversation with me on any instant-messaging program however.

[XZero771679666304]

I find it extremely humurous how you're attacking Washington being "lucky" and them "evening out". Maybe when the Cubs have 50+ wins at the break, we can critique how other teams are getting it done. It is NO coincidence we succeeded with Lofton in 2003. This team has needed a leadoff hitter for a DECADE. We've had players like Dunn before - Dawson, Sosa, etc. What we havent had is a Juan Pierre - oh wait, we did for the second half of 2003 and exploded. We also did quite well when Patterson hit .330 at the top of the order, and didnt we just sweep Florida with Hairston leading off?

 

DUNN IS NOT THE ANSWER

 

why do we need a lead-off hitter if we have one, named Jerr hairston. You said it yourself, didn't we just sweep Florida with him in the lineup? So if we have our lead off man, why not go after another big run producer named Adam Dunn?

 

Because Hairston is not long for Chicago - for multiple reasons, mainly like Ive said before, the Cubs brass seems to think he is a stupid baseball player. And we need more than one leadoff type hitter anyway.

 

Either way, Juan Pierre is not what we need. His OBP has been hovering around .300 all year, and he gets thrown out stealing over a third of the time. His arm sucks, and he has zero power.

 

No thanks.

[rocket]

Someone start a Dunn thread in social so we can have the same argument in another thread.

 

Dunn is awesome, and he'd be an asset to our offense. That's not debateable.

 

It is debateable on how many prospects he's worth/isn't worth. But it's been done to death already in multiple threads.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

We've had players like Dunn before - Dawson, Sosa, etc. What we havent had is a Juan Pierre - oh wait, we did for the second half of 2003 and exploded.

You mean the Sosa that pretty much singlehandedly carried us to the playoffs in 98?

 

Note: when arguing against getting a guy, it probably isn't a good idea to compare him to players that are, more than likely, going into the hall of fame.

Edited July 14, 2005 by burnt out cubbie fan

[NorthsideAvenger]

Dunn won't be traded this yr. In the offseason is where I would look for him to be traded, but not right now.

 

And I am split on trading for Dunn. His power and patience is awe-inspiring, but his CRAPPY defense (makes Alou look like a GG winner), and his very limited offense arsenal (homerun, strikeout, or walk) would thin very quickly.

 

So, I guess it would depend on who the Cubs would have to give up.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Let me say this once... a 25 year old hitter with a 900+ OPS is an extremely rare commodity and is valuable no matter how few sac flies he hit or if all his outs were strike outs. Trying to argue that a player who puts up that kind of OPS would not improve an offense or when you argue instead that 700 OPS players would be more valuable is simply ridiculous.

[sonicdethmonkey0]

i'm so tired of this utterly ridiculous argument.

 

to the guy who said they'd take podsednik or pierre over dunn: are you out of your mind? this makes no sense whatsoever. dunn's OBP is .384, which is 19 points higher than podsednik's, and 74 points higher than pierre's. you know what? i could care less about dunn's batting average. dunn's ability to draw walks completely negates his batting average, because even if he's hitting .240 he's still getting on base more than almost anyone in the national league. 38% OF THE TIME ADAM DUNN COMES TO THE PLATE HE DOES NOT MAKE AN OUT. i don't know how much clearer i could make it.

 

let's move on to the strikeout argument. who cares? A STRIKEOUT IS JUST ANOTHER OUT. no one is complaining about the cubs striking out this year, probably because they're in the bottom half of the NL in strikeouts. they could be in the top for all i care, it still doesn't change the fact that no one on the cubs knows how to draw walks and the cubs are close to last in the NL in OBP. of course, dunn helps solve those two problems immediately. ok ok ok, so maybe once every two weeks dunn fails to move a runner over to third base. maybe he fails to drive a guy in with a sacrifice fly. BUT ALONG WITH THESE SHORTCOMINGS HE HITS 50 HOME RUNS. right how he's slugging .550, with an OPS of .935. aramis last year had an OPS of .951. huff has never had an OPS that high. carlos beltran has never had an OPS that high. and you know what? ADAM DUNN IS ONLY 25 YEARS OLD. also, i would like to throw these numbers out to you guys:

 

.300/.417/.611 1.028 OPS 8 HR 21 RBI 19 R 27 H

 

those are adam dunn's stats at wrigley field (90 ABs) in the last three years. why wouldn't dunn's numbers improve after being traded to the cubs? he clearly has success at wrigley, he's getting out of a horrible situation in cincy, and he's finally playing on an (alleged) contender.

 

this is why i will be furious if the cubs let the astros or dodgers pry him away from cincy. i said it in the other thread: right now i would trade pie for him. i don't think there's a player in the cubs' system that i wouldn't trade for dunn. he's one of the few guys you trade anything for, right up there with abreu. first of all, i think pie is slightly overrated by this board, and i think if the cubs bring him up it will be a mistake. he needs to develop more, and work on his patience and his ability to steal bases. he's got all the talent in the world, but will he ever be the player dunn is? i don't know. it's possible, but unlikely. if we could, i'd love to keep pie and let him develop and be an all-star caliber CF. but if that's the one thing the reds want, then i think we should pull the trigger. i'll trade a potential all-star for a player who has been one of the most productive players in the game the last couple of years any day of the week. i think if you can trade for a player of dunn's caliber, you do it.

 

dunn is one of the most underrated players in the game, just because people don't understand how valuable he is to an offense. it's a fact. you can argue with me all you want about whether it's worth trading pie for him, and trust me, i can understand that argument. but don't waste your time saying that dunn isn't productive, because it's a fact that he is. look it up. i wish there was a giant book of baseball that had such facts, some kind of infallible bible type book that had such truths. argh. some people think bush is a good president, some people think the world is flat, and others think adam dunn sucks 'cause he strikes out too much and plays crappy defense.

 

it's one of those things, i guess.

Edited July 14, 2005 by sonicdethmonkey0

[Transmogrified Tiger]

some people think bush is a good president, some people think the world is flat, and others think adam dunn sucks 'cause he strikes out too much and plays crappy defense.

 

You're probably going to offend some people with this statement.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

nevermind. :roll:

[JeffH]

i'm so tired of this utterly ridiculous argument.

 

right now i would trade pie for him. i don't think there's a player on the cubs that i wouldn't trade for dunn.

 

dunn is one of the most underrated players in the game

 

Dunn is an extremely valuable offensive player. No argument there. He is, at the same time, quite overrated in many circles.

 

Despite the rantings of saber types everywhere, batting average counts. There's a reason we used to say "a walk's as good as a hit" when the pathetic kid came up to bat. A walk is generally not as good as a hit. Sure, making the pitcher throw additional pitches is helpful. Dunn doesn't hit for a good average and he is traditionally even worse in that regard with runners on base.

 

I'd like to see Dunn in LF for the Cubs, batting second.

 

I do think it's "utterly ridiculous" that you would seemingly trade Prior or Zambrano for Dunn.

[Roast]

some people think bush is a good president, some people think the world is flat, and others think adam dunn sucks 'cause he strikes out too much and plays crappy defense.

 

You're probably going to offend some people with this statement.

 

Holy........Crap.

[rawaction]

i'm so tired of this utterly ridiculous argument.

 

right now i would trade pie for him. i don't think there's a player on the cubs that i wouldn't trade for dunn.

 

dunn is one of the most underrated players in the game

 

Dunn is an extremely valuable offensive player. No argument there. He is, at the same time, quite overrated in many circles.

 

Despite the rantings of saber types everywhere, batting average counts. There's a reason we used to say "a walk's as good as a hit" when the pathetic kid came up to bat. A walk is generally not as good as a hit. Sure, making the pitcher throw additional pitches is helpful. Dunn doesn't hit for a good average and he is traditionally even worse in that regard with runners on base.

 

I'd like to see Dunn in LF for the Cubs, batting second.

 

I do think it's "utterly ridiculous" that you would seemingly trade Prior or Zambrano for Dunn.

 

Walks vs. hits are immaterial. The key to winning baseball games is making outs less frequently. Adam Dunn gets out far less than most baseball players.

 

And who cares if he only gets hits 24% of the time? He's in scoring position (or already scored) 61% of the time he does get a hit.

 

For the record, I would hit Dunn 3rd. Hopefully he would get more to hit in front of Lee and his average will go up.

 

Hairston

Walker

Dunn

Lee

Ramirez

Burnitz

Barrett

Cedeno

[wekse]

raw, i like the looks of that lineup

[sonicdethmonkey0]

I do think it's "utterly ridiculous" that you would seemingly trade Prior or Zambrano for Dunn.

 

oops, my bad. i meant to say any player in the cubs' system.

[JeffH]

Walks vs. hits are immaterial.

 

LOL!

[sonicdethmonkey0]

nevermind. :roll:

 

in response to your sig, if rey ordonez was hitting .300/.400/.500 against the cardinals, would you sign him?

[Halman]

Why third? Sandwich him between Lee and Ramirez because Dusto likes those Lefty righty matchups

 

Hairston Jr. RH

Walker LH

Lee RH

Dunn LH

Ramirez RH

Burnitz LH

Barrett RH

Neifi SH

Pitcher