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Posted
2 hours ago, Jason Ross said:

I didn't get a direct 1:1 on Mo or Ayers. But I can tell you this: the Cubs weren't going to trade Owen Ayers today and not also get another young C from somewhere else. So this is an assumption but one I think is an easy one to make: if the Cubs were that high on Mo right now, they probably don't require another young C to deal Ayers, because they would have already had one. 

I'm convinced that both the Cubs adore Owen Ayers and that the Cubs had soured on Ballesteros defensively.

Outdated now, but in April this guy with Lance who watched him in the AFL said Ayers has a sub-1.85 pop-time and the Cubs love his framing, but was clunky receiving in the AFL.

Do you know what the Cubs or anyone else thinks of his receiving abilities?

 

 

North Side Contributor
Posted
7 minutes ago, Stratos said:

Outdated now, but in April this guy with Lance who watched him in the AFL said Ayers has a sub-1.85 pop-time and the Cubs love his framing, but was clunky receiving in the AFL.

Do you know what the Cubs or anyone else thinks of his receiving abilities?

 

 

From Greg Huss who had him 3rd ranked:

Quote

Over the years, there have been plenty of pop-up prospects. Guys who are a flash in the pan, give us crazy levels of excitement in short bursts of time, and ultimately fizzle out. They are often prospects that never truly give you the confidence to rank them top 10 in the system. Ayers feels different. The former 19th round pick shows legitimate power with plus exit velocities and has strong defensive abilities, led by a cannon strapped to his right shoulder. Now in Triple-A, I’m looking forward to seeing the Statcast-style metrics begin to normalize in a few weeks so we can have a better idea of his contact rates and, in turn, decide on what his future in Chicago might be. That might happen in 2026 but at the very least, he’s in competition for a role in the bigs next year since Carson Kelly hits free agency this offseason.

I hadn't heard anything myself on the receiving, but Huss is clued in. I would assume he's not guessing here. Receiving is probably his weakest from a logical stand point as he's not a natural catcher; He really only moved to a full-time catcher his senior year at Marshall and that's a lot of feel. 

  • Like 1
Old-Timey Member
Posted

The rub with Ayers is age.  If he was exactly the same in every way but 23 he's a top 10 global prospect.  Those two years matter though.  A lot.  How much exactly is the question.  I suspect to open the year at SB the answer was "it's nearly disqualifying" but now that he's at Iowa and still producing it's closer to a yellow flag than a red one.

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

From Greg Huss who had him 3rd ranked:

I hadn't heard anything myself on the receiving, but Huss is clued in. I would assume he's not guessing here. Receiving is probably his weakest from a logical stand point as he's not a natural catcher; He really only moved to a full-time catcher his senior year at Marshall and that's a lot of feel. 

Thanks.

BR shows he was catching before he switched to full-time so at least he's wasn't new to the position.  Probably grew up catching, at least partially.

Edited by Stratos
Posted
10 minutes ago, Bertz said:

The rub with Ayers is age.  If he was exactly the same in every way but 23 he's a top 10 global prospect.  Those two years matter though.  A lot.  How much exactly is the question.  I suspect to open the year at SB the answer was "it's nearly disqualifying" but now that he's at Iowa and still producing it's closer to a yellow flag than a red one.

Yeah.  It's just all-around odd he was in state junior college for some years before Marshall.  A true late bloomer.

Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Jason Ross said:

We didn't *all* expect that to be fair. 

Of course. Did you expect or even entertain the possibility that Jed would do something bold and trade Rojas for 2 high profile rental starting pitchers like Gausman and Holmes?

Edited by Geographyhater8888
North Side Contributor
Posted
20 minutes ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

Of course. Did you expect or even entertain the possibility that Jed would do something bold and trade Rojas for 2 high profile rental starting pitchers like Gausman and Holmes?

I think it's just unfair to act like everyone here was expecting Jed to do nothing. The panic from some people two weeks ago that the Cubs weren't doing anything when they brought in Civale was silly stuff. 

Jed gets a bad rap for that horsefeathers. It gets old. I think there are real gripes on Jed. 2025 deadline for sure! But everything we had heard leading up to the deadline is that would be active. 

Generally speaking, I think the Cubs brought in most of what many thought they would: 2 SP, 1RP and one LHH platoon hitter. And we got Braxton Garrett to boot. I didn't have a pulse on the send outs across the board, but mostly, they did what I expected. People here even had the Holmes idea pretty nailed on, like @Bertzwho suggested he be the fall back pivot at the end of the day.

Just think it's fair to point out that not everyone was as doom-and-gloom here. 

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

I think it's just unfair to act like everyone here was expecting Jed to do nothing. The panic from some people two weeks ago that the Cubs weren't doing anything when they brought in Civale was silly stuff. 

Jed gets a bad rap for that horsefeathers. It gets old. 

Generally speaking, I think the Cubs brought in most of what I thought they would: 2 SP, 1RP and one LHH platoon hitter. And we got Braxton Garrett to boot. I didn't have a pulse on the send outs, but mostly, they did what I expected. 

Saying “everyone” was hyperbole. I wasn’t at all shocked that they landed Gausman. I was expecting a couple of rental relief arms too but I wasn’t at all expecting Jed to trade Rojas for anyone without multiple years of control. He compromised on years to acquire Clay Holmes and I’m stoked.

Edited by Geographyhater8888
Old-Timey Member
Posted
55 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

I think it's just unfair to act like everyone here was expecting Jed to do nothing. The panic from some people two weeks ago that the Cubs weren't doing anything when they brought in Civale was silly stuff. 

Jed gets a bad rap for that horsefeathers. It gets old. I think there are real gripes on Jed. 2025 deadline for sure! But everything we had heard leading up to the deadline is that would be active. 

Generally speaking, I think the Cubs brought in most of what many thought they would: 2 SP, 1RP and one LHH platoon hitter. And we got Braxton Garrett to boot. I didn't have a pulse on the send outs across the board, but mostly, they did what I expected. People here even had the Holmes idea pretty nailed on, like @Bertzwho suggested he be the fall back pivot at the end of the day.

Just think it's fair to point out that not everyone was as doom-and-gloom here. 

Along with this there were still people who were suggesting they would be underwhelmed by Jed’s TDL moves because he wouldn’t do much. And then after getting arguably the 2nd and 3rd best rental arms, a highly sought after pen arm with a lot of control left, a right handed platoon partner for Happ, and a possible controllable pitcher for the rotation the next few years, are still claiming to be right that Jed would underwhelm us. For some people no matter what Jed does will be wrong. 

  • Like 1
North Side Contributor
Posted
1 hour ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

Saying “everyone” was hyperbole. I wasn’t at all shocked that they landed Gausman. I was expecting a couple of rental relief arms too but I wasn’t at all expecting Jed to trade Rojas for anyone without multiple years of control. He compromised on years to acquire Clay Holmes and I’m stoked.

I also wasnt expecting them to deal Rojas. That said, from what I have been told by two people who know, and Keith Law posting about similar things last night (as cool as Keith Law to have been one of the people I talked to, we are not running in the same social circles haha)...I am actually not surprised as all they used Rojas in that vein. 

Posted
23 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

I also wasnt expecting them to deal Rojas. That said, from what I have been told by two people who know, and Keith Law posting about similar things last night (as cool as Keith Law to have been one of the people I talked to, we are not running in the same social circles haha)...I am actually not surprised as all they used Rojas in that vein. 

I’m guessing Jed dangled Rojas to a few teams as a headliner for a cost controlled starter and there wasn’t enough interest? The key takeaway in all of this is MLBs top 100 prospects list isn’t a proxy for John Mozeliak or Jeff Greenbergs top 100 list. 

North Side Contributor
Posted
12 minutes ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

I’m guessing Jed dangled Rojas to a few teams as a headliner for a cost controlled starter and there wasn’t enough interest? The key takeaway in all of this is MLBs top 100 prospects list isn’t a proxy for John Mozeliak or Jeff Greenbergs top 100 list. 

Keith Law reported that the Cubs were very interested in him as the headliner and teams balked at it. Considering names I had heard tossed around with people who know...the name Rojas was never coming up. At the time, I thought it was because the Cubs weren't offering him. Squaring it all with everything we have seen since, I think it's because teams weren't asking for him in those trades. 

  • Like 2
Posted
4 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

Keith Law reported that the Cubs were very interested in him as the headliner and teams balked at it. Considering names I had heard tossed around with people who know...the name Rojas was never coming up. At the time, I thought it was because the Cubs weren't offering him. Squaring it all with everything we have seen since, I think it's because teams weren't asking for him in those trades. 

Learning that I don’t know horsefeathers is what I keep learning on here.

North Side Contributor
Posted
19 minutes ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

Learning that I don’t know horsefeathers is what I keep learning on here.

The deeper you go down the iceberg the more you come away feeling like you never knew anything, is what I have learned, too. 

Posted

Let me preface this by saying I think Jed did a very good job and substantially strengthened this team even if I feel like he overpaid a bit on the Holmes dead. With that said, a few things I was surprised about

1) Alcantara is still a Cub. He has been mismanaged pretty bad to the point where, I don't think he's benefitting at all by getting more AAA ABs, he wont find regular playtime on the Cubs and he's been held so long that I think his value is down to lead piece in a minor acquisition and a secondary piece in a good, but not major acquisition. 

2) Kane Kepley is still a Cub. What exactly is the plan here? 454 PAs of .435 OBP in A+ at age 22 to go with 50 SB in 55 attempts. I thought they were holding him back to trade him so he didn't get exposed at AA, but then they didn't. So what now?

3) The Cub FO seems to have soured on Ballesteros as much as I had. For a guy whose entire identity is his bat, he got exposed pretty hard and there weren't a lot of adjustments at AAA. 

4) The Cubs must absolutely love Owen Ayers. Given his age I wanted to jump on the bandwagon but you start to let Matt Mervis creep into your head. Yesterday affirmed the Cubs are definitely on the Ayer's hype train. 

5) That Hoyer was able to acquire Braxton Garrett. I was just about sure he was going to be an offseason acquisition, but snagging him now, for that price tag was a win. Even if he comes with some big question marks following an extended injury, he's a guy who was a legitimate mid rotation arm in 2022, 2023 and honestly was good by FIP/xFIP in 2024 as well. If they end up with a mid rotation arm for 2 years for what they gave up, that's a huge win.

North Side Contributor
Posted
2 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Let me preface this by saying I think Jed did a very good job and substantially strengthened this team even if I feel like he overpaid a bit on the Holmes dead. With that said, a few things I was surprised about

1) Alcantara is still a Cub. He has been mismanaged pretty bad to the point where, I don't think he's benefitting at all by getting more AAA ABs, he wont find regular playtime on the Cubs and he's been held so long that I think his value is down to lead piece in a minor acquisition and a secondary piece in a good, but not major acquisition. 

2) Kane Kepley is still a Cub. What exactly is the plan here? 454 PAs of .435 OBP in A+ at age 22 to go with 50 SB in 55 attempts. I thought they were holding him back to trade him so he didn't get exposed at AA, but then they didn't. So what now?

3) The Cub FO seems to have soured on Ballesteros as much as I had. For a guy whose entire identity is his bat, he got exposed pretty hard and there weren't a lot of adjustments at AAA. 

4) The Cubs must absolutely love Owen Ayers. Given his age I wanted to jump on the bandwagon but you start to let Matt Mervis creep into your head. Yesterday affirmed the Cubs are definitely on the Ayer's hype train. 

5) That Hoyer was able to acquire Braxton Garrett. I was just about sure he was going to be an offseason acquisition, but snagging him now, for that price tag was a win. Even if he comes with some big question marks following an extended injury, he's a guy who was a legitimate mid rotation arm in 2022, 2023 and honestly was good by FIP/xFIP in 2024 as well. If they end up with a mid rotation arm for 2 years for what they gave up, that's a huge win.

Kepley has been seemingly promoted to Knoxville, though hasn't been made official-official.  I do find the timing interesting. 

  • Like 1
Posted
7 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

Kepley has been promoted to Knoxville. I do find the timing interesting. 

If I'm being honest, I don't have a lot of hopes for Kepley at AA and I think they really missed the opportunity to capitalize on his max value, but then again, maybe the other teams knew that as well and weren't interested.

North Side Contributor
Posted
4 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

If I'm being honest, I don't have a lot of hopes for Kepley at AA and I think they really missed the opportunity to capitalize on his max value, but then again, maybe the other teams knew that as well and weren't interested.

I've seen two suggestions. The first is that the Cubs were hiding his approach and passivity against lower lever pitchers to pump up his value. The inverse is that the Cubs were trying to hide him in High-A so that he could have the end of the season to pump his value up for the winter after a Double-A bump. Which is it? No clue. 

I am not the biggest Kane Kepley guy myself, but I was a believer in Rojas three days ago and things Ive heard and what Law wrote...I definitely have come away feeling a little different. 

I do find how they have handled Kepley to be fascinating as he sticks out like a sore thumb in how he has been handled compared to the rest of the system. 

Posted
10 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

If I'm being honest, I don't have a lot of hopes for Kepley at AA and I think they really missed the opportunity to capitalize on his max value, but then again, maybe the other teams knew that as well and weren't interested.

If people on this board don't trust Kepley, then teams with professional scouts don't either. He might just not have a lot of value.

Posted

Assorted thoughts after sleeping on this. Largely but not totally in positive to negative order

- Love getting 3 SPs. Love love love it. There's a certain extent to which this deadline was already in the black the moment this course was committed to

- From a timing/strategy perspective good on Jed for getting Peterson done a month ago and good on him for getting Gausman done Sunday night right as things started moving in earnest

- Gausman and Holmes were the two rental options I liked most from a talent perspective (Peralta probably on a cost/benefit basis). They are both Boyd-caliber arms and battle tested such that you don't have to worry at all about the moment getting to them. At the risk of doing the "what are you gonna do, stab me?" meme I feel insulated from pitcher attrition (injury or performance) to the extent that's ever truly possible

- Zeferjahn seems like a DUDE. I'm okay with the lack of track record and the risk that introduces because he looks absolutely monstrous at the moment. And I sort of wonder if the Cubs have more levers they can pull given their fetish for and experience with cut-ride fastballs?

- Dealing Mo for Zef caught me on my back foot, though IMO it would be disingenuous for me to complain too aggressively. About a week ago I posted something like "the team needs to take a good honest look at Mo and decide if he can catch more than sparingly, and if not ship him out." Action taken and answer clearly received

- Garrett's a quality buy-low piece to be in the mix for next year's rotation, and it's unlikely but not out of the realm of reason for him to be able to help this year

- The team mostly dealt the right guys. I believe Everyone moved except Southisene was due for a 40 man spot this winter? And Ty was SUPER blocked in addition to the power questions. Alcantara still being here feels incongruant with a lot of other things that have gone down, and to a lesser extent so does Kepley, but otherwise they cleared the decks successfully IMO

- I was less worried about it than most but glad both Shaw and Pedro made it through the deadline

- Glad they added a RHH bench bat...but Tyrone Taylor's not an especially inspiring one. He's been split neutral more years than not

- Holistically, the team probably got their money's worth in terms of player capital? Like if you line up all names out and all names in I think it works out, even if some trades were much better value than others

- That said the Holmes deal was absolute insanity. And to not have my point above misconstrued, fleecing TOR and then turning around and overpaying for Holmes is absolutely throwing bad money after good and the former doesn't make the latter somehow fine actually

- The team did not add noticeable salary for next year but did add a modest amount of talent. Adding salary wouldn't have been bad per se but it's a positive to have that powder dry for November. There's room to do more of course but the offseason to-do list looks like 1 good SP, 1 good OF, and general depth. And there's still (presumably) cash to accomplish that all via FA if they want (though it'd be a bit tight...one more offseason trade feels likely)

- The team added a cost controlled starter only in the most literal sense. I like Garrett for what he is but again they once again didn't get a deal done for a SP who can help both short and medium term. Even with clear need and copious assets to throw at the problem. Credit to them for avoiding the "don't worry guys we've got Mike Soroka" situation again but like get one of these god damn deals over the line in-season. Especially since you clearly felt comfortable pissing away Rojas on a rental

Overall I'm pretty happy. Let's call it a B+? Paying a more reasonable cost for Holmes would have gotten me to an A, actually getting to the finish line on Detmers (or anothe AL West SP) an A+. But overall this is a lot of additional firepower added to an already really good team.

  • Like 1
Posted

Jed said in the post-deadline media scrum yesterday that they sought controllable SP but didn't get anywhere close to a deal., similar to last years deadline.

 

 

Posted

Feels like our bench next year will be 

 

Triantos

Alcantara 

Ayers 

 

Those guys basically cover all but 1B. I wonder if Alcantara is being kept to be Pete insurance. It definitely feels like the club still believes he will be an asset. 

 

I think Ramirez is your starting LF next year and they re-sign Seiya right before FA kicks off.

Posted
6 minutes ago, Stratos said:

Jed said in the post-deadline media scrum yesterday that they sought controllable SP but didn't get anywhere close to a deal., similar to last years deadline.

 

 

cerami in shambles

Posted
5 minutes ago, Stratos said:

Jed said in the post-deadline media scrum yesterday that they sought controllable SP but didn't get anywhere close to a deal., similar to last years deadline.

 

 

So 2 years in a row the cost was too high. So that should tell Jed not to expect to add controllable pitching at the deadline. Get guy before the TDL so you don’t need them again next year. 
I think he did a really good job this year. I agree with Bertz B+ grade. I’m not even terribly upset it was Holmes instead of Detmers. I do wonder what Detmers would have cost. But if you look at replacing Detmers by getting Holmes this year and then Garret the next two years, does that even the score? So they got those guys for Long and Rojas. I would guess Detmers would have cost more. Garrett might not be Detmers the next 2 years, but I do think Holmes is every bit as good, if not better, that Detmers this year. 

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