Bears Week 16 vs Lions, Noon Sunday on FOX

[minnesotacubsfan]

31 minutes ago, raw said:

So, I do think coaching is a huge part of it. I mean, just look at the defense with and without Eberflus calling the plays, even back to Alan Williams. It's been a difference of over 9 points per game with and without Flus calling the plays. 

I also don't think the roster needs to turn over quite yet. All the normal defensive starters are under contract. While this may be a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it, you do have some building blocks on that side. Jaylon, Kyler, Dexter, and Sweat (for better or worse) are going to be around. Billings, Byard and Edwards are serviceable. Can't count on Brisker, Stevenson or Edwards to be good really, but those guys have been a lot better as recently as last year/early this year. 

Offense, it's all about Caleb. If Caleb is the guy, and all indications in a season where everything has been worse case scenario is that he is, then everything else offensively will fall in place if you get the coaching right. Got DJ, Rome, Kmet, and Wright for sure on offense. Braxton isn't terrible. 

It's not going to be an easy fix by any means, but there are a solid 8-9 pieces in place that you can see starting on a contending team. 

That being said, my strategy would be to go into this process with Poles and Warren leading the show. If a guy like Ben Johnson wants his GM to line up with him contract-wise, you can always fire Poles at that point, assuming Johnson has a guy in mind as his GM (Ray Agnew seems like an obvious choice). Who cares about the optics after a HC was allowed to do a press conference right before being fired. 

I think you mean Edmunds. Edwards is actually worth hanging on to

 

 

[raw]

4 minutes ago, minnesotacubsfan said:

I think you mean Edmunds. Edwards is actually worth hanging on to

 

 

Yeah, I put Edwards the sentence before. 2nd was the typo

[NorthsideAvenger]

28 minutes ago, raw said:

Why? If it's because of history or some kind of curse horsefeathers, that's dumb. He's not going to get a better job than this. There isn't this magical, winning and super efficiently functional franchise just waiting to hire a coach. Those teams are good, and good teams don't fire their coaches. 

Johnson's choices will come down to:

Top 10 pick, franchise QB in Year 2 of rookie deal, 68Mil in cap space

Top 10-15 pick, no QB, not picking high enough to take one of the top QBs in a bad QB draft, 60M+ over the cap

Top 10 pick, 40 year old QB and his 35 year old WR1 buddy

Top 3 pick, QB already paid and coming off injury and ineffectiveness for a franchise that's been more inept than maybe any. But they got money!

Maybes: 

Work for Jerry Jones

Top 3 pick, can take a QB but again, bad QB draft. Little other talent on the offensive side.

Top 3 pick, can take a QB, but again, bad QB draft. Brock Bowers and Maxx Crosby

 

Patriots are probably a decent job too, if that opens. But I expect that to be Vrabel if so

Jusy about anything the Bears touch turns to 💩. Obviously, if it is Johnson, I want him to succeed but this is the Bears we are talking about.

[gflore34]

12 hours ago, NorthsideAvenger said:

Jusy about anything the Bears touch turns to 💩. Obviously, if it is Johnson, I want him to succeed but this is the Bears we are talking about.

horsefeathers, Trubisky, Fields, Nagy, Eberflus, even Pace were all good ways towards horsefeathers to begin with, you start with horsefeathers you end up with horsefeathers.

Edited December 23, 2024 by gflore34

[jersey cubs fan]

51 minutes ago, raw said:

So, I do think coaching is a huge part of it. I mean, just look at the defense with and without Eberflus calling the plays, even back to Alan Williams. It's been a difference of over 9 points per game with and without Flus calling the plays. 

I also don't think the roster needs to turn over quite yet. All the normal defensive starters are under contract. While this may be a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it, you do have some building blocks on that side. Jaylon, Kyler, Dexter, and Sweat (for better or worse) are going to be around. Billings, Byard and Edwards are serviceable. Can't count on Brisker, Stevenson or Edwards to be good really, but those guys have been a lot better as recently as last year/early this year. 

Offense, it's all about Caleb. If Caleb is the guy, and all indications in a season where everything has been worse case scenario is that he is, then everything else offensively will fall in place if you get the coaching right. Got DJ, Rome, Kmet, and Wright for sure on offense. Braxton isn't terrible. 

It's not going to be an easy fix by any means, but there are a solid 8-9 pieces in place that you can see starting on a contending team. 

That being said, my strategy would be to go into this process with Poles and Warren leading the show. If a guy like Ben Johnson wants his GM to line up with him contract-wise, you can always fire Poles at that point, assuming Johnson has a guy in mind as his GM (Ray Agnew seems like an obvious choice). Who cares about the optics after a HC was allowed to do a press conference right before being fired. 

I’m not saying everybody on the roster has to go. I am saying almost the entire OL, most of the DL, the LBs, half the secondary. The wr room is in flux with their go to pass catcher heading out. 
 

Poles has done a poor job with this roster. They’re going to have 36 losses in three years. 

im also not as high on Caleb as a lot of people apparently are. The guy has been trash at times. He cannot play in the first half. He’s terribly inefficient and inaccurate. He’s shown flashes and racked up some totals, with a handful of 4th quarter almost comebacks, but I do not believe we are through the doubt stages with him. And I’m sure a lot of NFL people have their doubts as well. He’s probably good enough to stick around and succeed for ten years, but he’s been disappointing to me on a relative basis. Too much bad. Hopefully that goes away next year. 

[raw]

5 minutes ago, NorthsideAvenger said:

Jusy about anything the Bears touch turns to 💩. Obviously, if it is Johnson, I want him to succeed but this is the Bears we are talking about.

So just like Detroit before Ben Johnson got there? 

Like I said, what's the alternative? There's 32 of these jobs. The teams that aren't poop emojis don't get rid of their coaches unless it's a rare situation (see Eagles- Reid). 

 

[NorthsideAvenger]

2 minutes ago, raw said:

So just like Detroit before Ben Johnson got there? 

Like I said, what's the alternative? There's 32 of these jobs. The teams that aren't poop emojis don't get rid of their coaches unless it's a rare situation (see Eagles- Reid). 

 

If I had the answer, I would be working in the NFL. 

I am just tired of always crossing fingers and it hoping it works out.

[raw]

10 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

I’m not saying everybody on the roster has to go. I am saying almost the entire OL, most of the DL, the LBs, half the secondary. The wr room is in flux with their go to pass catcher heading out. 
 

Poles has done a poor job with this roster. They’re going to have 36 losses in three years. 

im also not as high on Caleb as a lot of people apparently are. The guy has been trash at times. He cannot play in the first half. He’s terribly inefficient and inaccurate. He’s shown flashes and racked up some totals, with a handful of 4th quarter almost comebacks, but I do not believe we are through the doubt stages with him. And I’m sure a lot of NFL people have their doubts as well. He’s probably good enough to stick around and succeed for ten years, but he’s been disappointing to me on a relative basis. Too much bad. Hopefully that goes away next year. 

I mean, I get it with the Caleb stuff. But this is quite literally going to be a top 5 QB season in Chicago Bears history. I know, low bar and all, but he's also had to deal with the first ever OC getting fired in-season and the first ever OC getting fired in-season. Maybe part of that is on him, but there's nothing statistically to suggest that those are his doing. 

If you're disappointed on a "relative basis", I have no idea what relation you are making. He's had a better rookie season than former #1 picks: Jared Goff, Bryce Young, Matthew Stafford, David Carr, Jameis Winston, and basically the same statistical rookie seasons as Kyler Murray and Joe Burrow. If it's relative to other rookies, he's having the same statistical season as Bo Nix who broadcasters rave about when I watch the Broncos. If it's relative to more experienced QBs, that's more of a you problem for having too high expectations than a Caleb problem.

[raw]

6 minutes ago, NorthsideAvenger said:

If I had the answer, I would be working in the NFL. 

I am just tired of always crossing fingers and it hoping it works out.

I was asking what's the alternative for Johnson. If this organization is too dysfunctional, so is like 80% of the NFL, just that some of them win pretty consistently, and he's quite literally never getting one of those HC jobs,

And every single move in the NFL is crossing fingers and hoping it works out. The Bears could trade for Mahomes, and we'd be hoping he doesn't tear his ACL in the airport. This is a sport where guys get their careers ended in a blink and formerly good players aren't good in a new situation. There's no guarantees with anything. 

[jersey cubs fan]

2 minutes ago, raw said:

I mean, I get it with the Caleb stuff. But this is quite literally going to be a top 5 QB season in Chicago Bears history. I know, low bar and all, but he's also had to deal with the first ever OC getting fired in-season and the first ever OC getting fired in-season. Maybe part of that is on him, but there's nothing statistically to suggest that those are his doing. 

If you're disappointed on a "relative basis", I have no idea what relation you are making. He's had a better rookie season than former #1 picks: Jared Goff, Bryce Young, Matthew Stafford, David Carr, Jameis Winston, and basically the same statistical rookie seasons as Kyler Murray and Joe Burrow. If it's relative to other rookies, he's having the same statistical season as Bo Nix who broadcasters rave about when I watch the Broncos. If it's relative to more experienced QBs, that's more of a you problem for having too high expectations than a Caleb problem.

I’m disappointed he hasn’t been better. I’m disappointed he’s looked as bad as he has as often as he has. I’m not disappointed with the pick or unhappy that he’s here. I have a decent amount of faith in his future but still plenty of doubt largely because of his shortcomings. I’d wish he’d figure out how to score a touchdown before being down 20. 

[raw]

8 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

I’m disappointed he hasn’t been better. I’m disappointed he’s looked as bad as he has as often as he has. I’m not disappointed with the pick or unhappy that he’s here. I have a decent amount of faith in his future but still plenty of doubt largely because of his shortcomings. I’d wish he’d figure out how to score a touchdown before being down 20. 

Not trying to come off as an apologist, really I'm not. But like today, 2 WR fumbles and a 1st down holding penalty on his first 4 drives.

Last week, the playcalling gave the ball twice on 4th and 1 to a RB that likes to run sideways, and he obliged by going sideways. Also mixed in was a rookie completely whiffing a block and getting Caleb blindsided at the top of his drop. That was also 3 of the first 4 drives, and the 5th time he got the ball he was already down 3 scores in both games.

 

There were always going to be ups and downs. I wish he was consistently better as well. But I also like wishing to find millions of dollars in a pile of dog crap. 

[SpongeWorthy]

13 minutes ago, raw said:

Not trying to come off as an apologist, really I'm not. But like today, 2 WR fumbles and a 1st down holding penalty on his first 4 drives.

Last week, the playcalling gave the ball twice on 4th and 1 to a RB that likes to run sideways, and he obliged by going sideways. Also mixed in was a rookie completely whiffing a block and getting Caleb blindsided at the top of his drop. That was also 3 of the first 4 drives, and the 5th time he got the ball he was already down 3 scores in both games.

 

There were always going to be ups and downs. I wish he was consistently better as well. But I also like wishing to find millions of dollars in a pile of dog crap. 

those numbers are kind of fugazi. way too many non-competitive offensive possessions when the score is within reach.

at the same time, williams is going to be robocop with proper development and coaching. he absolutely has rare traits. 

if we are equal on money and lose a beauty contest to the other teams out there in the HC market it's because mccaskey/warren/poles (if he's around) can't close a horsefeathers door

[raw]

14 minutes ago, SpongeWorthy said:

those numbers are kind of fugazi. way too many non-competitive offensive possessions when the score is within reach.

at the same time, williams is going to be robocop with proper development and coaching. he absolutely has rare traits. 

if we are equal on money and lose a beauty contest to the other teams out there in the HC market it's because mccaskey/warren/poles (if he's around) can't close a horsefeathers door

Like I pointed out. He's literally had 2 offensive possessions the last 2 weeks when the score has been within reach that weren't completely ruined by someone else's mistake. 

Obviously, there's 13 other games of data, but the non-competitive stuff has mostly come in the 3 weeks post Eberflus. The first 6 were all competitive. Arizona and NE were not (a lot of his fault). Then 3 games that were competitive to the wire (other than 1st half vs Detroit). Maybe I'm being an apologist, but I'll cut some slack when 2 coaches have been fired and 90% of the team has visibly quit. 

[Brian707]

People bitching about Caleb's shortcomings is like bitching that the cigarette lighter doesn't work in a car that was totaled in a car accident.  

He will have a great career if he is surrounded by a non dumpster fire organization 

[Tryptamine]

After today I'm more on board than ever as saying you hand Johnson a blank check and tell him to fill in whatever he needs to lead this team going forward. 

[Soul]

1 hour ago, Tryptamine said:

After today I'm more on board than ever as saying you hand Johnson a blank check and tell him to fill in whatever he needs to lead this team going forward. 

I’m on board with that too. But I expect if Johnson doesn’t come here we will hear something about the Bears not willing to give him the autonomy he felt he needed.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I think people are more frustrated with the Bears than they are Caleb Williams.

All rookie QBs are inconsistent.  Nobody cares that Jayden Daniels and the Commanders had a bears-esque first quarter sad times on offense today, because their defense didn't gack up the win after his clutch comeback.

Bo Nix threw for 130 with 3 interceptions last week and the perception was that his stock improved for ROY.

 

 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Meanwhile, Williams' interception streak is now the fifth longest in NFL history 

With 78 pass attempts in the final two games, he could potentially (knock on wood) set the record against the Packers 

[UMFan83]

Holy horsefeathers yes we need Ben Johnson more than we need air

 

[BigbadB]

This is turning out to be a pretty incredible QB draft. 

I think Caleb has made plenty of rookie mistakes, but I have to give him a pass because pretty much everything else about this offense has been so bad. The good far outweighs the bad. He needs stability in his ears. That requires an offensive minded coach and OC. He also needs way better protection.

This team absolutely must do some serious house cleaning on the OLIne. I have no idea how bad Braxton's injury is, but I think he's pretty much destined for a G position going forward. The Bears must get a lock down LT in the draft or in FA. Jenkins, Bates, Borom and several of the other backups cannot be here next year. This group is so bad at fundamentals, every series becomes doomed due to their incompetence. Shelton can come back on a team friendly placeholder gig, where he should just be a backup C when they draft their new starter. I have no idea whether Amegadjie has a place on this team going forward, either. You can't dedicate many spots on the roster for guys who aren't healthy on game day. 

Many of the defenders would be better with some sort of pass rush. Any defense can get torched when the QB has tons of time to throw.

[Rex Buckingham]

Robert Schmitz said on Twitter that he thinks Braxton wouldn't be any good at G because he has a tendency to get overpowered. So there's really only 1.5 spots on the line that are filled if you're set on replacing him and both guards (which i agree with). 

A pass rushing Edge is by far the biggest defensive need. If Billings can come.back and play at a similar level then the front should be at least league average if adding someone who can get pressure on the QB, and that makes the back end better by default. 

I feel like the best path at this point is LT in the 1st, followed an iOL and an Edge in the 2nd (all after signing 1-2 iOL and an Edge in FA). Would like a starting CB in FA too. Stephenson can't go into next season as an unquestioned starter. 

[gflore34]

15 minutes ago, Rex Buckingham said:

Robert Schmitz said on Twitter that he thinks Braxton wouldn't be any good at G because he has a tendency to get overpowered. So there's really only 1.5 spots on the line that are filled if you're set on replacing him and both guards (which i agree with). 

A pass rushing Edge is by far the biggest defensive need. If Billings can come.back and play at a similar level then the front should be at least league average if adding someone who can get pressure on the QB, and that makes the back end better by default. 

I feel like the best path at this point is LT in the 1st, followed an iOL and an Edge in the 2nd (all after signing 1-2 iOL and an Edge in FA). Would like a starting CB in FA too. Stephenson can't go into next season as an unquestioned starter. 

Appears the Bears are locked into the 9th pick, have a shot at 8 if the Jets can get another win.  Jets last game is at home vs. Miami, so, a possibility for the Bears to move up.  Nevertheless, they've 4 picks in top 100,  8 overall, including, if the draft order remains stagnant, picks 40 and 41.  They absolutely need to go some combination of DL, OL, OL, OL with those first four picks.  Are we confident, if Poles is the GM, he knows what needs to be emphasized this off season?   I'm not so certain.  I'm in the fire Poles camp, I believe most any GM will come in and realize what needs fixing on this roster.

[raw]

2 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

Appears the Bears are locked into the 9th pick, have a shot at 8 if the Jets can get another win.  Jets last game is at home vs. Miami, so, a possibility for the Bears to move up.  Nevertheless, they've 4 picks in top 100,  8 overall, including, if the draft order remains stagnant, picks 40 and 41.  They absolutely need to go some combination of DL, OL, OL, OL with those first four picks.  Are we confident, if Poles is the GM, he knows what needs to be emphasized this off season?   I'm not so certain.  I'm in the fire Poles camp, I believe most any GM will come in and realize what needs fixing on this roster.

They really need to hit free agency hard. Like a real solution (or 2, or 3) on the OL. Can't really count on being able to pick whoever you want on the OL where they are scheduled to pick. There's only 2 legit OTs that project top 15. And about 3 teams that pick before the Bears that probably have that as their #1 need. There aren't really any guards slated for the top 10, unless you play a tackle there.

But mostly, they need a guy they know that can play. Not a guy that was a backup swing guy somewhere and pencil him in to start for them. Not a guy with position flexibility that is good depth if someone gets hurt. Not a guy who's former team is telling the world "this guy doesn't like to practice". Of course, this is what they've needed for 3 offseasons now.

[gflore34]

3 minutes ago, raw said:

They really need to hit free agency hard. Like a real solution (or 2, or 3) on the OL. Can't really count on being able to pick whoever you want on the OL where they are scheduled to pick. There's only 2 legit OTs that project top 15. And about 3 teams that pick before the Bears that probably have that as their #1 need. There aren't really any guards slated for the top 10, unless you play a tackle there.

But mostly, they need a guy they know that can play. Not a guy that was a backup swing guy somewhere and pencil him in to start for them. Not a guy with position flexibility that is good depth if someone gets hurt. Not a guy who's former team is telling the world "this guy doesn't like to practice". Of course, this is what they've needed for 3 offseasons now.

It's not a Herculean task either, well, for Poles it is, there's at least two examples of teams fixing their OL's in an off season.  The point is an OL can be addressed and repaired in an off season.  I really do believe most any GM off the street could come in and do a better job with the trenches than Poles has done.

[jersey cubs fan]

8 hours ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

Meanwhile, Williams' interception streak is now the fifth longest in NFL history 

With 78 pass attempts in the final two games, he could potentially (knock on wood) set the record against the Packers 

I thought no interceptions was bad