Bears week 15 MNF at MIN on ABC

[gflore34]

9 minutes ago, mul21 said:

Caleb is shell shocked right now.  The protection last night wasn't great, but there were plenty of plays where he had protection and just flat out missed wide open receivers, Rome in particular.  I think he'll be fine but the whole offense is just a mess right now.

This season is a wash, beyond the health of Caleb there's nothing to be taken away from this offense.  Next season is a reset and we can only hope it's one with a competent HC.

On the subject of HC's and all of Ben Johnson' supposed demands, on one hand, I can see trying to meet them in order to hire him.  On the hand I'm thinking horsefeathers him and his demands, Kingsburry could come in and vastly improve this team' offense and Caleb probably without a bunch of organizational demands, extraneous horsefeathers.

[UMFan83]

17 minutes ago, mul21 said:

Caleb is shell shocked right now.  The protection last night wasn't great, but there were plenty of plays where he had protection and just flat out missed wide open receivers, Rome in particular.  I think he'll be fine but the whole offense is just a mess right now.

im not sure whats worse: when he misses WRs (meaning he doesn't see them) or when he misses WRs (meaning he throws an inaccurate pass towards one).  He's gonna break all these records for not throwing INTs but look thoroughly mediocre the entire time.  I am still in on Caleb but I feel like the more he plays this year the more he gets ruined.

[gflore34]

5 minutes ago, UMFan83 said:

im not sure whats worse: when he misses WRs (meaning he doesn't see them) or when he misses WRs (meaning he throws an inaccurate pass towards one).  He's gonna break all these records for not throwing INTs but look thoroughly mediocre the entire time.  I am still in on Caleb but I feel like the more he plays this year the more he gets ruined.

Yeah, I'd go with Bagent to close out the season,

[mul21]

52 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

I'd really like to know why Sweat was called for roughing the passer while that Vikings dickhead who laid out Caleb in front of an official wasn't flagged.  Doesn't matter all much in the game' outcome but, the health of Caleb is the concern.

Sweat got called because it was a helmet to helmet hit and the one on Caleb wasn't  Now, there was an illegal contact on Rome and a facemask on Caleb on 2nd and 3rd down on consecutive plays near the red zone and neither got called when the outcome of the game was still in question.

[BigSlick]

13 hours ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

Hire the best offensive minded head coach who will have us

Spend as much money on the offensive line as you can in free agency.   Go 25% higher than anyone else will on Trey Smith if he's willing to come here.

Don't be afraid to spend money on a TE to pair with Kmet either.  Or a mid-tier WR.

Draft OT in the first, and then your next three picks some combination of RB/OL/WR.  

Forget defense exists until shortly before camps open. Hold open tryouts for league minimum.

Turn every game into the Lions/Bills game from last week. Throw for 6000 yards while going 10-7

 

If there's a good Center prospect in the first couple rounds, I wouldn't hate spending a high pick on one. It's such an important position to lock down, I think it has to be a priority, and someone young that you can keep around for a while. 

Turns out I was super wrong last year when I was like 'hey, we're pretty set across the board after we take Caleb, just take best player available" lol 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

That SearsTower Twitter dude who seems to have inside sources says that the Bears don't intend to fire Poles when the season ends, but that they would do it if their preferred head coaching hire insists.

 

Which is such a stupid way to handle this.

[NorthsideAvenger]

4 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

That SearsTower Twitter dude who seems to have inside sources says that the Bears don't intend to fire Poles when the season ends, but that they would do it if their preferred head coaching hire insists.

 

Which is such a stupid way to handle this.

That's so Bears.

Edited December 17, 2024 by NorthsideAvenger

[WrigleyField 22]

2 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

That SearsTower Twitter dude who seems to have inside sources says that the Bears don't intend to fire Poles when the season ends, but that they would do it if their preferred head coaching hire insists.

 

Which is such a stupid way to handle this.

I mean framed in that way it sounds stupider than it probably is. Some of that is because of Kevin's words about Poles leading the process which I don't really believe.

 

I think putting the head coach on the top of the chain is something you do for the right head coach. And thats probably a better operating model for the Bears than for most teams honestly. But there's no guarantee there is that right guy available. I think there's arguably two guys who are available and demand that type of clout.  A couple others that could become free agent coaches or would be worth trade capital to get who'd also be worth doing that for.  But it's still a limited list. So if you get shut out, then what.  Do you let Poles hire with a short leash for both? Just clear the slate from the jump?  Most fans would prefer a very linear approach, but I think the whole idea of coach or GM as de facto head of football is still often candidate dependent.

 

My hot take is this could end up looking like the Bills 2017 offseason where the GM is replaced in May.  You can of course argue against that process though Bills have been a pretty strong org since that year, whether because they made a good hire that supersedes bad process or that the process isn't inherently bad.

[jersey cubs fan]

14 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

That SearsTower Twitter dude who seems to have inside sources says that the Bears don't intend to fire Poles when the season ends, but that they would do it if their preferred head coaching hire insists.

 

Which is such a stupid way to handle this.

Doesn’t seem stupid to me, if you’re getting the right head coach. The right guy might appreciate the good parts of this roster but be critical of the athletes over football player makeup of the roster overall. That guy might push for football players in free agency and the draft while Poles pushes back and wants guys with the right measurables 

 

that may result in Poles losing a power struggle and wanting out (which is apparently something his camp has already floated) 

 

 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

4 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

Doesn’t seem stupid to me, if you’re getting the right head coach. The right guy might appreciate the good parts of this roster but be critical of the athletes over football player makeup of the roster overall. That guy might push for football players in free agency and the draft while Poles pushes back and wants guys with the right measurables 

 

that may result in Poles losing a power struggle and wanting out (which is apparently something his camp has already floated) 

 

 

If you are willing to fire your gm to get a coach, that should be your cue to realize you need to fire the gm regardless.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm not worried about Williams being an outright bust but if we don't get this off-season right then I see the Kyler Murray Cardinals path in our future 

[minnesotacubsfan]

3 hours ago, gflore34 said:

This season is a wash, beyond the health of Caleb there's nothing to be taken away from this offense.  Next season is a reset and we can only hope it's one with a competent HC.

On the subject of HC's and all of Ben Johnson' supposed demands, on one hand, I can see trying to meet them in order to hire him.  On the hand I'm thinking horsefeathers him and his demands, Kingsburry could come in and vastly improve this team' offense and Caleb probably without a bunch of organizational demands, extraneous horsefeathers.

The bears have to fix the front office regardless of what Johnson wants if they ever want to be a winning organization 

[WrigleyField 22]

10 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

If you are willing to fire your gm to get a coach, that should be your cue to realize you need to fire the gm regardless.

I think that's probably an overwhelmingly binary way to look at it.

 

But it kind of depends how you view the lens of GM.  A lot of GMs are just glorified player personnel directors.  You could view him as valued, but not worth sidelining candidates over if that's how you view the GM role at large.

 

The only thing at odds with that POV is that he's supposedly leading the search... Which I don't really believe from Warren.  

[Hairyducked Idiot]

16 minutes ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

I think that's probably an overwhelmingly binary way to look at it.

 

But it kind of depends how you view the lens of GM.  A lot of GMs are just glorified player personnel directors.  You could view him as valued, but not worth sidelining candidates over if that's how you view the GM role at large.

 

The only thing at odds with that POV is that he's supposedly leading the search... Which I don't really believe from Warren.  

Is there any reason to believe the bears see gms that way?

[Derwood]

We just seem to be in a never ending cycle of:

GM hires coach

GM drafts QB

GM fires coach

New coach doesn't like QB

QB fails/leaves

GM drafts QB

GM fires coach

etc.

[mul21]

31 minutes ago, minnesotacubsfan said:

The bears have to fix the front office ownership regardless of what Johnson wants if they ever want to be a winning organization 

 

[jersey cubs fan]

4 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

Is there any reason to believe the bears see gms that way?

Historically it has been viewed that way 

 

they’ve only done the gm is in charge and hires/fires the coach the past couple decades. Before that it was a weird mix director of player personnel and de facto GMs and a couple head coaches that ran the show. They may have tired of their model 

[gflore34]

11 minutes ago, Derwood said:

We just seem to be in a never ending cycle of:

GM hires coach

GM drafts QB

GM fires coach

New coach doesn't like QB

QB fails/leaves

GM drafts QB

GM fires coach

etc.

I honestly believe the previous coaches didn't like the QB's because they sucked, the new HC will like Caleb.

[UMFan83]

I was bored so I put this together comparing the rookie QBs.  I wish I had access to PFF's stats for things like Big Time Throws and Turnover Worthy plays, Average depth of target, time to throw, etc.

 

Edited December 17, 2024 by UMFan83

[WrigleyField 22]

52 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

Is there any reason to believe the bears see gms that way?

We don't really have concrete reason to think one way or the other honestly.  Hence the if.  We know George went pretty quickly from Poles reporting directly into him to handing those reigns back to Warren basically as soon as he could.  If Warren sees it a different way than Phillips did, he has the power to make it so.

 

Maybe some heavy reading between lines / taking grain of salt rumors at face value,  indicates Warren will see it that way.

 

Edited December 17, 2024 by WrigleyField 22

[WrigleyField 22]

1 hour ago, jersey cubs fan said:

Historically it has been viewed that way 

 

they’ve only done the gm is in charge and hires/fires the coach the past couple decades. Before that it was a weird mix director of player personnel and de facto GMs and a couple head coaches that ran the show. They may have tired of their model 

Yea I mean they basically did the "strong HC as leader of football ops" once, with Wanny.  Due to Halas's death and org disfunction Ditka probably grew into that role too, but by that point he grew into that role was a SB winning coach... Which any coach with that level of success always encroaches into that power structure.

Then Angelo-Emery-Pace-Poles since Phillips looked to modernize the role of GM as head of football org.  Not entirely inspiring results.  Like who are the most successful franchises in last 30ish years.  Baltimore is the only one that immediately pops to mind where the Head Coach isn't by design the top/equal football voice in the room.  It doesn't seem like a bad model. Maybe Poles can fit into that structure and add value?  Maybe not.

Edited December 17, 2024 by WrigleyField 22

[jersey cubs fan]

8 minutes ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

Yea I mean they basically did the "strong HC as leader of football ops" once, with Wanny.  Due to Halas's death and org disfunction Ditka probably grew into that role too, but by that point he grew into that role was a SB winning coach... Which any coach with that level of success always encroaches into that power structure.

Then Angelo-Emery-Pace-Poles since Phillips looked to modernize the role of GM as head of football org.  Not entirely inspiring results.  Like who are the most successful franchises in last 30ish years.  Baltimore is the only one that immediately pops to mind where the Head Coach isn't by design the top/equal football voice in the room.  It doesn't seem like a bad model. Maybe Poles can fit into that structure and add value?  Maybe not.

Howie Roseman in Philly is absolutely the top dog there 

[WrigleyField 22]

24 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

Howie Roseman in Philly is absolutely the top dog there 

They've only settled into that by a lot of trial and error (they 100% sidelined him at one point). Also Roseman is certainly not the mold of Player personnel specialist. So they're kind of their own category.

 

Edit - Saints basically in same category too (to a slightly varying degree).

Edited December 17, 2024 by WrigleyField 22

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I will say that I don't think it has to be Johnson or Bust.  Last year everyone wanted Slowik and the year before that everyone wanted Daboll.  There's always going to be a flavor of the year guy.

[Soul]

4 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

I will say that I don't think it has to be Johnson or Bust.  Last year everyone wanted Slowik and the year before that everyone wanted Daboll.  There's always going to be a flavor of the year guy.

I wanted Daboll.  Don't listen to anything I say ever again.

Edited December 17, 2024 by Soul