Nico Hoerner underwent successful right flexor tendon surgery

[KCCub]

 

My quick research shows anywhere from 3-6 months full recovery time. Most cases are on the lower end with some needing an additional surgery to clean up scar tissue, etc. 

[Jason Ross]

Not ideal. I didn't think it was likely that the Cubs would move him in the offseason (though a creative trade involving him wasn't the craziest idea on the planet) but this kind of eliminates most of the remaining likelihood. 

[jersey cubs fan]

When’s the last time an athlete underwent an unsuccessful surgery? 

Edited October 21, 2024 by jersey cubs fan

[Rob]

35 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Not ideal. I didn't think it was likely that the Cubs would move him in the offseason (though a creative trade involving him wasn't the craziest idea on the planet) but this kind of eliminates most of the remaining likelihood. 

Yeah. Moving Hoerner for starting pitching and running a stopgap option until Shaw was ready seemed like a viable way to upgrade the rotation. Not particularly likely. But prior to this, it was at least possible.

[LBiittner]

I wonder if breaking bone(s) in his right hand affected his throwing delivery? Maybe I'm all wet? Dunno? 

[LBiittner]

1 hour ago, jersey cubs fan said:

When’s the last time an athlete underwent an unsuccessful surgery? 

Sammy's pigment augmentation was a big fail

[Outshined_One]

1 hour ago, jersey cubs fan said:

When’s the last time an athlete underwent an unsuccessful surgery? 

It's rare, but all it takes is an inattentive anesthesiologist or a distracted surgeon.

[Bertz]

Pretty surprising he was dealing with this given that he played his best ball late in the year.  You'd think if he had an injury necessitating surgery there'd be some bread crumbs in his performance.

[Stratos]

3 hours ago, Rob said:

Yeah. Moving Hoerner for starting pitching and running a stopgap option until Shaw was ready seemed like a viable way to upgrade the rotation. Not particularly likely. But prior to this, it was at least possible.

Next offseason seemed a lot more likely unless they planned to go with Shaw on Opening Day, which doesn't seem their style.  Get Shaw some AB's this season and have him as a backup on the INF for injury depth for 3B/2B is probably how they were going to go.

[Rcal10]

4 hours ago, jersey cubs fan said:

When’s the last time an athlete underwent an unsuccessful surgery? 

Ask Lonzo Ball.

[bukie]

6 hours ago, jersey cubs fan said:

When’s the last time an athlete underwent an unsuccessful surgery? 

Wasn't it Luol Deng that has such a bad surgery he almost died on the table?

[squally1313]

Oh no our 3.9 fWAR second baseman was actually playing through an injury, now he's getting it fixed and I'm upset that might mean we can't trade him

[Cuzi]

1 hour ago, squally1313 said:

Oh no our 3.9 fWAR second baseman was actually playing through an injury, now he's getting it fixed and I'm upset that might mean we can't trade him

Whether or not the Cubs were looking at shaking up the lineup with a Hoerner deal, taking chips off the table isn't exactly something to celebrate.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I am celebrating because trading Nico was always a silly idea and now hopefully we read less of it.  

[Cuzi]

18 minutes ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

I am celebrating because trading Nico was always a silly idea and now hopefully we read less of it.  

If the Padres can trade Juan Soto and get better, I'm pretty sure there are scenario's in which the Cubs could trade Nico Hoerner and get better.

[jersey cubs fan]

5 hours ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

I am celebrating because trading Nico was always a silly idea and now hopefully we read less of it.  

It’s wildly unimaginative to think it’s silly to consider trading a good player in an effort to make the team better. Prolonged mediocrity is not the consistency we should be striving for. 
 

not to mention, having surgery isn’t an automatic road to improvement. Hoerner battled a bunch of injuries as a young player and he’s no longer young. This is another notch in the negative category for him from a health perspective. He’s probably going to miss more time next season and start to decline soon. 
 

celebrating his surgery because you won’t have to hear people discuss the possibility of trading him in an effort to make the team better is myopic. 

Edited October 22, 2024 by jersey cubs fan

[squally1313]

The good player who had a good year might have done the good playing while not fully 100%. That creates some optimism for next year, no?

and let’s not pretend like there were any concrete ideas for trading hoerner outside of ‘well we need to open up a slot for the guy in Iowa for…reasons’. A 4 win second baseman making $10-12m a year is not at all the reason for this ‘prolonged mediocrity’. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

2 hours ago, jersey cubs fan said:

It’s wildly unimaginative to think it’s silly to consider trading a good player in an effort to make the team better. Prolonged mediocrity is not the consistency we should be striving for. 
 

not to mention, having surgery isn’t an automatic road to improvement. Hoerner battled a bunch of injuries as a young player and he’s no longer young. This is another notch in the negative category for him from a health perspective. He’s probably going to miss more time next season and start to decline soon. 
 

celebrating his surgery because you won’t have to hear people discuss the possibility of trading him in an effort to make the team better is myopic. 

I am not actually *celebrating* Nico having surgery and the recovery that entails, that would be silly and why I mirrored the charged phrasing someone else used for effect.

But while there are always technically ways to trade a player to make the team better, the number of Nico trades that were realistic and actually made the team better are far fewer in number than the volume we saw in practice.  Nico has somewhat unique value to this team and people overrate the ease in replacing that value(and the likelihood that a locked on starter for 2025 exists in house)

[CubinNY]

I see this as a great opportunity for Shaw to get "his feet wet". I doubt that Nico will be ready to go by April. The caveat is I don't know the Cubs depth chart. Maybe he's behind some other people. 

[squally1313]

16 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

I see this as a great opportunity for Shaw to get "his feet wet". I doubt that Nico will be ready to go by April. The caveat is I don't know the Cubs depth chart. Maybe he's behind some other people. 

3-6 months with most on the lower end (per the original post) would make it pretty likely he's good for opening day. Triantos would be the other name who could make sense. Neither are on the 40 man, but guys like Mastro and Madrigal are so assume spots will be available. Luiz Vasquez is the only name on the 40 man who I expect to still be around next year

[Outshined_One]

4 hours ago, CubinNY said:

I see this as a great opportunity for Shaw to get "his feet wet". I doubt that Nico will be ready to go by April. The caveat is I don't know the Cubs depth chart. Maybe he's behind some other people. 

I get the sneaking suspicion we'll be hearing a lot about James Triantos, moreso than Shaw, come Spring Training if Nico's not back to 100%.  There's been discussions elsewhere on this forum about Shaw having some swing issues (which *should* be correctable) that could give him problems in the majors, and how he may benefit from additional time at AAA.

Triantos has the sort of profile that should play well in the majors, plus he fits Nico's role as a contact-heavy speedster.  He probably also could use some more seasoning in AAA, but I think he's a better candidate to fill an immediate need than Shaw based on his profile.

[Jason Ross]

9 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

I get the sneaking suspicion we'll be hearing a lot about James Triantos, moreso than Shaw, come Spring Training if Nico's not back to 100%.  There's been discussions elsewhere on this forum about Shaw having some swing issues (which *should* be correctable) that could give him problems in the majors, and how he may benefit from additional time at AAA.

Triantos has the sort of profile that should play well in the majors, plus he fits Nico's role as a contact-heavy speedster.  He probably also could use some more seasoning in AAA, but I think he's a better candidate to fill an immediate need than Shaw based on his profile.

I actually think a lot of the swing issues on Shaw are a bit overblown. I had a big response in the Shaw thread the other day that I think many missed. Just to recap it:

1. Shaw has shown zero contact issues with velo thus far at Triple-A posting contact% in the 80+ range on fastballs over 94+mph. I would expect that much of the concern on the leg kick is that he would struggle to get to velo. Shaw, instead, kills fastballs. 

2. Shaw has shown a two strike approach with a smaller leg kick which has resulted in above average Triple-A exit velos (I used his two-strike exit velo and compared it to Triple-A two strike exit velo). He does get more GB% heavy in the scenario, but so does the league. There's work there, but I'm not sure it's that much work.

When it comes to Shaw, the data doesn't have glaring issues with the mechanics. None of that is to say that he can't be exposed with better stuff - the gulf between Triple-A and the MLB is...growing. I fully expect any and all prospects to initially struggle, probably for 45-60 games at the MLB level. I suspect tweaks will occur/.be made. But I also wonder if the concern with Shaw's swing comes from "most players who have exaggerated movements have to change" because most of those do need some work. But there are still handfuls of players who have some exaggerated motions who do just fine, You never want to predict and exception to the general rule, but I can't find much in the data to suggest Shaw can't be one.

[Stratos]

20 hours ago, Cuzi said:

If the Padres can trade Juan Soto and get better, I'm pretty sure there are scenario's in which the Cubs could trade Nico Hoerner and get better.

At the very least they could stay about the same.  It's not like they wouldn't get good assets back for a 4 WAR guy with surplus value.  Again I wouldn't have traded him this offseason anyways so its moot.