Chicago Bears offseason

[UMFan83]

5 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

I was gonna say, it's weird that the bears are about to draft a QB with the number 1 pick and it feels like almost nobody in the fanbase is hyped for it (either because they wanted fields or they think Caleb is a goofball)

I’m hyped. Another chance to finally have an elite QB in Chicago and while he has weaknesses, he’s one that people seem to consider better than the first QB taken most years. 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I am extremely hyped for Williams.  I think that the range of outcomes on prospects like him suggests that there's at *least* a 75% chance he's the best QB we've ever had (which isn't saying much).

I would rather he hit his upside and become Patrick Mahomes 2.0, but if he turns out to be Baker Mayfield or Kyler Murray, that's still an upgrade at the most important position.

 

[Brian707]

14 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

it's weird that the bears are about to draft a QB with the number 1 pick and it feels like almost nobody in the fanbase is hyped for it (either because they wanted fields or they think Caleb is a goofball)

Stockholm syndrome of never having an elite QB

[raw]

9 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

it's weird that the bears are about to draft a QB with the number 1 pick and it feels like almost nobody in the fanbase is hyped for it (either because they wanted fields or they think Caleb is a goofball)

Yeah, I think Adam Hoge had a video about that. If Washington or New England had #1, it would have been a pure celebration since the season ended (kinda like Bears fans last year). We knew they were trading for an absolute haul. But this should be even better. An elite QB prospect is on the board and the Bears have never had a prospect this universally revered. 

Part of it is that most Bears fans do actually really like Fields. The flashes of talent are things almost nobody else has the ability to do. He's handled everything professionally, and was handed a raw deal (changed coaches, tank year). But the other part is that most fans were united on the Fields love as a prospect. He was pretty widely thought of as the 2 or 1B to Trevor Lawrence, so to get him at 11, most Bears fans thought he was a complete steal. There was even the sentiment that "if this one fails, we're truly cursed" with Fields, right or wrongly. 

So if Fields was highly regarded and he failed, what's going to be different with another highly regarded QB? We hear and say things like, "most talented QB in Bears history", but that's exactly what Fields was. Trubisky was previously the highest pick the modern Bears have used on a QB. And Jay Cutler came to the team already with a 4000 yard season under his belt, pre-prime years. So, the skepticism is probably well deserved from this fan base. 

[raw]

4 minutes ago, Brian707 said:

Stockholm syndrome of never having an elite QB

Or this. My answer was the long-winded version of this.

[CubinNY]

5 minutes ago, raw said:

Yeah, I think Adam Hoge had a video about that. If Washington or New England had #1, it would have been a pure celebration since the season ended (kinda like Bears fans last year). We knew they were trading for an absolute haul. But this should be even better. An elite QB prospect is on the board and the Bears have never had a prospect this universally revered. 

Part of it is that most Bears fans do actually really like Fields. The flashes of talent are things almost nobody else has the ability to do. He's handled everything professionally, and was handed a raw deal (changed coaches, tank year). But the other part is that most fans were united on the Fields love as a prospect. He was pretty widely thought of as the 2 or 1B to Trevor Lawrence, so to get him at 11, most Bears fans thought he was a complete steal. There was even the sentiment that "if this one fails, we're truly cursed" with Fields, right or wrongly. 

So if Fields was highly regarded and he failed, what's going to be different with another highly regarded QB? We hear and say things like, "most talented QB in Bears history", but that's exactly what Fields was. Trubisky was previously the highest pick the modern Bears have used on a QB. And Jay Cutler came to the team already with a 4000 yard season under his belt, pre-prime years. So, the skepticism is probably well deserved from this fan base. 

It will certainly be interesting as Williams has some of the same issues as Fields. 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

2 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

It will certainly be interesting as Williams has some of the same issues as Fields. 

He has some ball security issues in the way he holds it that are simlar to fields, that's it.

[raw]

Just now, CubinNY said:

It will certainly be interesting as Williams has some of the same issues as Fields. 

I think those issues are overblown. Fields held onto the ball too much because he wasn't comfortable with or fast enough with what he was seeing. I feel like Williams held onto the ball because he knew if he didn't score 45, his team would lose the game with a horrid defense. 

Maybe that was an issue Fields developed in 2022 (it wasn't) due to the bad surrounding cast, but it's also one he couldn't overcome. Williams has shown enough throwing in rhythm to make me believe it won't be as bad with him. He also has a MUCH quicker release, so even if he's never any better than Justin at reading/seeing the field, he has the quickness to get that ball where it needs to be than Fields did with his big windup.

[SpongeWorthy]

a little bit of distance time wise from the fields trade and like video of a sick throw from his pro day and the hype train will start rolling out of the station

of course the first time there's video of him putting a ball in dirt in like OTAs and the cacophony of bust proclamations will come out too

it's going to get extremely stupid is what i'm getting at

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Yeah, Fields' problem was never as simple as "he holds the ball too long."  Several very good QBs hold the ball similar lengths of time.

Fields' problem (well, one of two problems) is that he can't process what he's seeing quickly enough, and one of the many symptoms of that problem is that he would frequently fail to pull the trigger on plays, causing his time to throw to balloon.

It's the difference between having a high K-rate because you're working counts and taking walks too, or having a high K-rate because you can't hit anything.

[Wilson A2000]

1 hour ago, 17 Seconds said:

it's weird that the bears are about to draft a QB with the number 1 pick and it feels like almost nobody in the fanbase is hyped for it (either because they wanted fields or they think Caleb is a goofball)

Caleb has some red flags (crying to his patents, too much of a diva, not meeting the media last year, is he only good when he uses his athleticism when plays break down), but Bears fans are completely wacked if they think that staying with Fields is going to get you anywhere near a championship even with a great surrounding cast. Fans are usually dumb and because Fields is a good guy, that’s clouding their vision. The Bears have to try something different and it would be GM malpractice to pass a QB with the overall #1 pick two years in a row when your current QB situation is at the bottom of the league. 

Edited March 17, 2024 by Wilson A2000

[Wilson A2000]

The Bears needed a WR2 and a DE, so I guess the easiest way to get both was to trade for Allen and draft a DE at #9 or near that. But I really wanted Odunze.

[Tryptamine]

32 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

He has some ball security issues in the way he holds it that are simlar to fields, that's it.

Yeah, I'd more or less agree with this. Really the only issues they share is that they both try to play hero ball and it leads to turnovers. If Caleb learns to take what the defense gives and throw the ball away when there isn't anything there, he's going to be a vastly better player. I still believe that Fields has nearly unprecedented tools and therefore ceiling, but Williams is the much more likely of the 2 to be an above average or better QB.

[Tryptamine]

20 minutes ago, Wilson A2000 said:

Caleb has some red flags (crying to his patents, too much of a diva, not meeting the media last year, is he only good when he uses his athleticism when plays break down), but Bears fans are completely wacked if they think that staying with Fields is going to get you anywhere near a championship even with a great surrounding cast. Fans are usually dumb. The Bears have to try something different and it would be GM malpractice to pass a QB with the overall #1 pick two years in a row when your current QB situation is at the bottom of the league. 

I still have no idea why it's a negative that he broke down in tears after that game. If anything I love that he cares so much that losing caused that kind of response.

[Wilson A2000]

7 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

I still have no idea why it's a negative that he broke down in tears after that game. If anything I love that he cares so much that losing caused that kind of response.

I don’t mind the crying, just don’t like going to your parents with it in the stands. Not a big red flag, but I think it’s a little one. 

Edited March 17, 2024 by Wilson A2000

[raw]

27 minutes ago, Wilson A2000 said:

Caleb has some red flags (crying to his patents, too much of a diva, not meeting the media last year, is he only good when he uses his athleticism when plays break down), but Bears fans are completely wacked if they think that staying with Fields is going to get you anywhere near a championship even with a great surrounding cast. Fans are usually dumb and because Fields is a good guy, that’s clouding their vision. The Bears have to try something different and it would be GM malpractice to pass a QB with the overall #1 pick two years in a row when your current QB situation is at the bottom of the league. 

You listed 0 red flags

[Wilson A2000]

9 minutes ago, raw said:

You listed 0 red flags

If he not good at making the right quick decision, that’s a red flag

[raw]

4 minutes ago, Wilson A2000 said:

If he not good at making the right quick decision, that’s a red flag

You didn't say that in the post I quoted

[gflore34]

This whole the Bears failed Justin is excuse making, Fields is 99.9% responsible for busting as a Bear.  The Bears arguably improved his supporting cast in 2023 and his passer rating went down from previous season.  That certainly was not the Bears failing him.  The same problems Fields had as a Bear will show up as Steeler, then what's the narrative going to be?  The Steelers failed him as well?

[Wilson A2000]

16 minutes ago, raw said:

You didn't say that in the post I quoted

I said if Caleb is only good at making plays when the called play breaks down, it can be assumed that he’s not good at making quick reads

[Wilson A2000]

1 hour ago, gflore34 said:

This whole the Bears failed Justin is excuse making, Fields is 99.9% responsible for busting as a Bear.  The Bears arguably improved his supporting cast in 2023 and his passer rating went down from previous season.  That certainly was not the Bears failing him.  The same problems Fields had as a Bear will show up as Steeler, then what's the narrative going to be?  The Steelers failed him as well?

I don’t think he’s going to play enough to even make that narrative possible.

Edit: Supposedly the Steelers want to give Russ a long-term contract after the 2024 season. But why not now unless they don’t trust him.

Edited March 17, 2024 by Wilson A2000

[Wilson A2000]

Has there ever been a better offensive supporting cast for a #1 QB pick to come into than the 2024 Bears? 

[Tryptamine]

52 minutes ago, Wilson A2000 said:

If he not good at making the right quick decision, that’s a red flag

Who has said his quick decision making is bad? His short passing game is very good. The issue is sometimes he prefers to hold the ball and move around in the pocket to let his wide receivers get down field instead of simply taking the short pass. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

His pre-snap reads suck, he is a deer in headlight against a zone, he can't navigate a pocket and takes an ungodly amount of terrible sacks, isn't good at throwing receivers open, and he's at his worst in the 4th qtr. 

 

His problems are vast and hugely detrimental to an offense.

[Wilson A2000]

12 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Who has said his quick decision making is bad? His short passing game is very good. The issue is sometimes he prefers to hold the ball and move around in the pocket to let his wide receivers get down field instead of simply taking the short pass. 

That has to be something for Caleb to improve on. And I hope he will, but it was one of Fields biggest weaknesses, if not his biggest and I don’t want to go back to that.

Edited March 17, 2024 by Wilson A2000