Cubs hire Counsell

[JHBulls]

7 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

BN has some great ones too.

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2023/11/07/brewers-fans-craig-counsell/

Can you imagine the meltdowns if Amy announcers she won’t be attending any more games? 

[Tryptamine]

With the way Brewfan was melting down yesterday, and knowing sports radio is about 10x more reactionary, I'm sure it's a complete and total horsefeathers show in Wisconsin right now. 

[Tim]

I love this article from Brett about the signing:  https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2023/11/07/juuuuuust-a-reminder-that-big-market-teams-are-supposed-to-do-things-like-this/

 

Quote

What I mean is that the structure and rules of Major League Baseball EXPLICITLY CONTEMPLATE that things like this are going to happen, where large-market clubs with more money are going to be able to use that money to advantage themselves. So, then, EVERYTHING ELSE IS INTENTIONALLY TILTED in the favor of small-market clubs to help with competitive balance.

...

In other words, the structure of MLB is predicated on the idea that teams like the Cubs are going to do things like pay a ton of money for a guy like Craig Counsell. If the Cubs don’t do things like that, then they are expressly put behind the curve by the other rules! Spending is supposed to be their equalizer!

From there, of course, spending even more can be a greater edge. That’s where the value judgment would come in more strongly, and where we as fans want to see the Cubs push well past the luxury tax this offseason in player payroll. But we’ll get to that soon enough.

I couldn't agree more.

[jersey cubs fan]

1 minute ago, Tryptamine said:

I'm sure it's a complete and total horsefeathers show in Wisconsin right now. 

So, Tuesday?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It would be cool if the Brewers hired Ross.

[jumbo]

Is this like if the Bears hired Shanahan? What is the NFL comp to this?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

4 minutes ago, jumbo said:

Is this like if the Bears hired Shanahan? What is the NFL comp to this?

If Shanahan coached the Packers

[Rcal10]

9 minutes ago, jumbo said:

Is this like if the Bears hired Shanahan? What is the NFL comp to this?

Bears hire Harbough? That would just be a positive reaction in Chicago, not the negative that is happening in Milw. But I think this is as big a deal here as that would be in football. 

[ToolDRT]

10 hours ago, Y2J said:

Ross absolutely blew it down the stretch. 7 games against the Diamondbacks and we pretty well handed them a playoff spot. 

I think they’re just a better team. They were good enough to get in and make it to the World Series. Based on projections I’d say we either overachieved or were right in line with the most optimistic guesses. We certainly didn’t underachieve. Which says more about roster construction than management. 
 

I get it though. Hoyer wants to be Theo really bad though and wanted to duplicate the Joe move. 

[ToolDRT]

Does Craig now make more per year than his boss? 

[PeanutPunch33]

2 hours ago, jersey cubs fan said:

Yeah no, he’s not anywhere close to that good 

you don’t think he’s “that good”  to lead a team with a top 3-4 run differential to a playoff birth? maybe you can appreciate how awful Ross was a little bit more.  What I said is a 100% accurate.  The cubs could run it back with the same team + Counsell and they are easily a playoff team.  

and the part about him being more valuable than Belli is true too, he gave his last team 9 years of elite service.  Bellinger hasnt given any team 9 years of elite play and won’t in his next contract either.  Soto is 50-50 but I’d rather have Counsell 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by PeanutPunch33

[UMFan83]

1 hour ago, ToolDRT said:

I think they’re just a better team. They were good enough to get in and make it to the World Series. Based on projections I’d say we either overachieved or were right in line with the most optimistic guesses. We certainly didn’t underachieve. Which says more about roster construction than management. 
 

I get it though. Hoyer wants to be Theo really bad though and wanted to duplicate the Joe move. 

They might have been a better team, but then again the Cubs did finish with the 4th best RD in the NL while the Diamondbacks were outscored by 15 runs.   It did seem like the Diamondbacks were getting it together towards the end of the year and guys that we made fun of starting like Pfaadt ended up starting World Series games.  

Even still, on September 7th we had a 93% chance to make the playoffs and a 4 game lead with 22 games to play.  We lost 3 one run games against Arizona, where any one of them would have gotten the Cubs into the playoffs instead of Arizona.  One of those games was lost when a blooper barely scraped the ground by inches before going into Seiya's glove.  Another game was lost when Gomes missed a walkoff HR by a foot, and the third was lost when a ball deflected off the pitchers arm and our Gold Glove SS for some reason elected to let it drop.

I think its more likely the Diamondbacks were a hotter team in September and October with several emerging players figuring it out down the stretch.  We just so happened to have the misfortune of playing them in 7 of our final 22 games. But over 162 games, I think the Cubs were the better team and should have made the playoffs over them.  How much of that is Ross's fault? I'm not sure.

Edited November 7, 2023 by UMFan83

[Y2J]

4 hours ago, squally1313 said:

Cubs offense in the 7 games against Arizona: .212/.285/.329, for a 614 OPS. This is obviously David Ross' fault. 

Its ultimately on the manager to pull the right strings to re-ignite a stagnant offense. The harsh truth is that Ross' team dropped 6 of 7 against Arizona, costing the Cubs a playoff spot. 

[Y2J]

2 hours ago, ToolDRT said:

I think they’re just a better team. They were good enough to get in and make it to the World Series. Based on projections I’d say we either overachieved or were right in line with the most optimistic guesses. We certainly didn’t underachieve. Which says more about roster construction than management. 
 

I get it though. Hoyer wants to be Theo really bad though and wanted to duplicate the Joe move. 

I don't see this as "duplicating the Joe move" as much as making an obvious and significant upgrade. Ross was staying unless Counsell became available. I give major kudos to Jed for being ballsy enough to make that call.

[BigSlick]

Huh, ok, wasn't expecting this.

I'm probably agreeing with most everyone in the thread that this move in-and-of-itself doesn't change too much in the quality of the team but it does signal that the team intends to be competitive and they're going to spend to get there, so I like it. 

 

Plus Ross did a bunch of extremely dumb and annoying things, so I'm glad to be done with that (but I am secure in the knowledge that basically every manager will do that) 

[CubinNY]

1 hour ago, BigSlick said:

Huh, ok, wasn't expecting this.

I'm probably agreeing with most everyone in the thread that this move in-and-of-itself doesn't change too much in the quality of the team but it does signal that the team intends to be competitive and they're going to spend to get there, so I like it. 

 

Plus Ross did a bunch of extremely dumb and annoying things, so I'm glad to be done with that (but I am secure in the knowledge that basically every manager will do that) 

The things that Ross did less well speak to deficiencies in his critical thinking process. The things he did well are strong indicators of a good leader but are less about the mechanical part of managing. He wasn't an awful manager, but the things he did less well cost him a handful of winnable games. The things he was good at are less able to be quantified. Jed and Tommy Boy obviously think Counsell is better. 

[CubsLeaf]

12 hours ago, jumbo said:

Is this like if the Bears hired Shanahan? What is the NFL comp to this?

Shanahan sounds right.  I think Dan Campbell would be a good comp too, stealing a coach in the same division.

Edited November 8, 2023 by CubsLeaf

[Bull]

20 hours ago, Stratos said:

I also would liked to have seen Little used more.  But the late inning guys wore down through the summer, there wasn't really other guys to count on in close games then.  Alzolay and Leiter were toast by star of Sept

Agreed on Little, but also, Alzolay and Leiter wouldn’t have been toast in Sept. if Rossy hadn’t been chasing wins in July. Using Leiter July 31 down 2 to Cincy is just one of many examples. That’s where you’ve got to give other guys a chance to step up.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Bull

[Bull]

18 hours ago, ToolDRT said:

I think they’re just a better team. They were good enough to get in and make it to the World Series. Based on projections I’d say we either overachieved or were right in line with the most optimistic guesses. We certainly didn’t underachieve. Which says more about roster construction than management. 
 

I get it though. Hoyer wants to be Theo really bad though and wanted to duplicate the Joe move. 

Playoffs are a crapshoot and Rossy blew it down the stretch by abusing his late inning guys worse that Dusty abused his starters. The only thing missing was fishing metaphors.

I think manager is where “intangibles” matter the most. I love Ross’ intensity, and he really does seem to get a lot out of his players. Meanwhile Counsell seems to have the energy of an old boot on the end of your line.

but Counsell allocates resources (manages) in a game and over a season better than Ross.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Bull

[Cubs70]

On 11/6/2023 at 3:57 PM, Backtobanks said:

I just hope they didn't hire him because he's great at handling a low budget team.

I have to believe that's one reason he made the jump. Finally gets to manage a big market team with a big wallet

[Brock Beauchamp]

8 hours ago, Cubs70 said:

I have to believe that's one reason he made the jump. Finally gets to manage a big market team with a big wallet

Welcome to NSBB!

[Cubs70]

4 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Welcome to NSBB!

Thank you