2024 NFL Draft

[Tryptamine]

17 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

I would not trade down. I’d take two best players available and try to build an all around solid team then keep taking swings at QB. 

This. At some point you need to stop worry about adding depth and start adding stars while you can. 

[Rex Buckingham]

13 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

This. At some point you need to stop worry about adding depth and start adding stars while you can. 

I'm not so much advocating for trading back to get depth, but maybe they trade from (in that scenario) 5 to 12 or so and pick QB3 there while also picking up a 2nd rounder, since they traded their 2nd for Sweat

[raw]

12 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

This. At some point you need to stop worry about adding depth and start adding stars while you can. 

While I agree with the sentiment, there are stars found all over the draft, particular in the 1st round. The Bears just paid the 26th overall pick top of his position money. 

And it's not like they'd be trading down to 26. They are going to have multiple top 10 picks, if they trade back from 1 of them, it's still going to be top 15 at worst. You should add a star with the top 5 pick you keep, and if you trade back, you better do so because you feel you can get a star at whatever pick you trade back to.

[gflore34]

19 minutes ago, raw said:

Eh. Cards are a bad team, but they are getting Kyler Murray back, likely this coming week. He was 3-7 last year in games he started and finished, but they only scored less than 21 three times, they've only scored more than 21 three times without him. Plus, they'll lose the SOS battle to Carolina if they end up tied, and they essentially are with Arizona only have 1 more loss because they've played 1 fewer game.

Rams already have a game or 2 in hand over the rest of the top 6 with 3 wins already. They have a tough schedule (SOS not in their favor), but they also play Arizona and NYG.

Giants and Patriots are teams I worry about. Giants have AT LEAST 3 more games with DeVito at QB. They play NE and LAR, but those look like the only winnable games they have left, and that's only if Tyrod Taylor comes back.

I don't expect the Bears' pick to be in contention for #1, I think they'll win at least 3 more. It's all about the Carolina pick, IMO. 

Is Eberflus still the coach?  If he remains I do not see how that is possible, yesterday, playing an awful Saints team, 5 TO's, still had a chance to win.  Yet, Eberflus and Getsy masterfully coached them to a loss, with Fields coming back I don't see how it's going to improve.  With Fields you can say goodbye to the check-downs/quick reads and hello to more sacks with potentially more TO's.  The only way it's going to change is if Fields hits the horsefeathers it button, stops thinking, trusts what he sees, keeps his head up and pulls the trigger.  I firmly believe he knows the X's and O's, when to check-down, where the hot read is, etc., somewhere between the mind and the physical execution is a disconnect.

[raw]

21 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

Is Eberflus still the coach?  If he remains I do not see how that is possible, yesterday, playing an awful Saints team, 5 TO's, still had a chance to win.  Yet, Eberflus and Getsy masterfully coached them to a loss, with Fields coming back I don't see how it's going to improve.  With Fields you can say goodbye to the check-downs/quick reads and hello to more sacks with potentially more TO's.  The only way it's going to change is if Fields hits the horsefeathers it button, stops thinking, trusts what he sees, keeps his head up and pulls the trigger.  I firmly believe he knows the X's and O's, when to check-down, where the hot read is, etc., somewhere between the mind and the physical execution is a disconnect.

Which he did 2 of the last 3 times you saw him play. And I don't know how you blame coaching for the loss yesterday. All 3 INTs were a QB not having the arm to make throws his eyes are seeing.

But yeah, the Bears play Carolina and Arizona, while likely having the better QB against Minnesota, Atlanta, and Green Bay (maybe Cleveland too, but their defense makes this an auto loss for the Bears). 

[CubinNY]

1 hour ago, gflore34 said:

Is Eberflus still the coach?  If he remains I do not see how that is possible, yesterday, playing an awful Saints team, 5 TO's, still had a chance to win.  Yet, Eberflus and Getsy masterfully coached them to a loss, with Fields coming back I don't see how it's going to improve.  With Fields you can say goodbye to the check-downs/quick reads and hello to more sacks with potentially more TO's.  The only way it's going to change is if Fields hits the horsefeathers it button, stops thinking, trusts what he sees, keeps his head up and pulls the trigger.  I firmly believe he knows the X's and O's, when to check-down, where the hot read is, etc., somewhere between the mind and the physical execution is a disconnect.

He's beat. I remember a story from Moneyball when Billy Beane knew he wasn't going to make it. It reminds me of the look Fields has on his face on the sideline and the tentative way he is playing now. He's paralyzed by fear of doing the wrong thing. 

Fields may have more natural talent than all the other QBs he will be playing, but it won't matter. 

[raw]

1 hour ago, CubinNY said:

He's beat. I remember a story from Moneyball when Billy Beane knew he wasn't going to make it. It reminds me of the look Fields has on his face on the sideline and the tentative way he is playing now. He's paralyzed by fear of doing the wrong thing. 

Fields may have more natural talent than all the other QBs he will be playing, but it won't matter. 

I wasn't saying it would matter. Just that the better QB is literally the largest determining factor in who wins/loses any given NFL game. Thus, the Bears have "a chance" to win some games down the stretch.

[jersey cubs fan]

[Tim]

1 minute ago, jersey cubs fan said:

If I could lock that in today, I'd do it.

[Tryptamine]

21 hours ago, Tim said:

If I could lock that in today, I'd do it.

Absolutely. Even if you got locked out of Williams and Maye, you'd be able to snag MHJ and Fashanu. You'd have a near elite Oline, elite WR core and you could fill that in with a franchise QB later. 

[Rex Buckingham]

Man I wish they had that 2nd round pick to get someone like Nix, Ewers, Penix, etc. if they fall. Even just to move up into the late 1st.

Like, I think Sweat is a good player, but if we don't have a top 2 pick, we probably remain in QB Hell, or take the 3rd QB when there are other blue chip prospects available.

I know none of the QBs are guaranteed to get us out of QB Hell, but they really need a shot at Williams or Maye. 

[Tim]

43 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Absolutely. Even if you got locked out of Williams and Maye, you'd be able to snag MHJ and Fashanu. You'd have a near elite Oline, elite WR core and you could fill that in with a franchise QB later. 

If we're picking 2nd and 4th, how would we get locked out of Williams/Maye? I figured we'd end up with one of those two and then either MHJ or one of the tackles.

[Tryptamine]

10 minutes ago, Tim said:

If we're picking 2nd and 4th, how would we get locked out of Williams/Maye? I figured we'd end up with one of those two and then either MHJ or one of the tackles.

The things you miss when you're typing a reply while also talking to your boss. Oops.

[Tryptamine]

Another big game for MHJ 7 catchers 149 and 2TD, though it was against a bad MSU team.

Drake Maye with a decent game 28/43 342 1TD 1INT

Penix against #18 Utah 24/42 332 yards 2TD 0INT 

JJ McCarthy was hardly even used against #10 Penn St  7/8 60 yards 

Bo Nix is tearing up USC 8/12 262  yards 3TD at half time

Caleb Williams is doing pretty well, but his line is getting abused by Oregon 11/18 159 yards at half. 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Without looking, can you guess which of these scouting report lines come from Justin Fields and which come from Caleb Williams?
 

",,, is an excellent scrambler however he often takes too long to decide who to throw to putting huge pressure on the offensive line"

 

"Occasionally hesitates and misses opportunities with delays on his trigger."

 

"He’s often slow in his progressions and had trouble with some relatively simple coverage rotations, and when his first read isn't open he struggles to get to the next guy"

 

"Field vision, progression speed, and anticipation are not yet elite."

 

Spoiler

I lied, they're all Drake Maye

 

[Tryptamine]

33 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

Without looking, can you guess which of these scouting report lines come from Justin Fields and which come from Caleb Williams?
 

",,, is an excellent scrambler however he often takes too long to decide who to throw to putting huge pressure on the offensive line"

 

"Occasionally hesitates and misses opportunities with delays on his trigger."

 

"He’s often slow in his progressions and had trouble with some relatively simple coverage rotations, and when his first read isn't open he struggles to get to the next guy"

 

"Field vision, progression speed, and anticipation are not yet elite."

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I lied, they're all Drake Maye

 

Watching him against Oregon, I was reminded that I do see some of the things Fields does really badly in Caleb, such as taking a very long time to make a decision. In the face of consistent pressure he gets happy feet and makes poor throws. With that said, he has far better pocket awareness than Fields has, but he's 100% going to have to stop trying to fight off these sacks, because he's going to get stripped constantly in the NFL if he keeps doing it. Caleb is much better on short passes and better in the middle of the field, but Fields throws a much better deep ball. I'm still not settled on if I like Williams or Maye more and I still don't know that I honestly like either more than just taking MHJ. Unfortunately trading that 2nd round pick has kind of forced them to take one of the two unless they're going to reach very early on a guy like Nix or Penix with their 2nd 1st round pick.

[Tim]

11 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Watching him against Oregon, I was reminded that I do see some of the things Fields does really badly in Caleb, such as taking a very long time to make a decision. In the face of consistent pressure he gets happy feet and makes poor throws. With that said, he has far better pocket awareness than Fields has, but he's 100% going to have to stop trying to fight off these sacks, because he's going to get stripped constantly in the NFL if he keeps doing it. Caleb is much better on short passes and better in the middle of the field, but Fields throws a much better deep ball. I'm still not settled on if I like Williams or Maye more and I still don't know that I honestly like either more than just taking MHJ. Unfortunately trading that 2nd round pick has kind of forced them to take one of the two unless they're going to reach very early on a guy like Nix or Penix with their 2nd 1st round pick.

They could trade back.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

41 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Watching him against Oregon, I was reminded that I do see some of the things Fields does really badly in Caleb, such as taking a very long time to make a decision. In the face of consistent pressure he gets happy feet and makes poor throws. With that said, he has far better pocket awareness than Fields has, but he's 100% going to have to stop trying to fight off these sacks, because he's going to get stripped constantly in the NFL if he keeps doing it. Caleb is much better on short passes and better in the middle of the field, but Fields throws a much better deep ball. I'm still not settled on if I like Williams or Maye more and I still don't know that I honestly like either more than just taking MHJ. Unfortunately trading that 2nd round pick has kind of forced them to take one of the two unless they're going to reach very early on a guy like Nix or Penix with their 2nd 1st round pick.

The fighting off sacks things is something I've noticed too.  He tries to just stand tall and shrug off defenders.  NFL defensive lineman are going to break him of that habit fast.

[Tryptamine]

14 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

The fighting off sacks things is something I've noticed too.  He tries to just stand tall and shrug off defenders.  NFL defensive lineman are going to break him of that habit fast.

Scrambling is fine, but once he's in the grasp he just needs to go down. Someone in the NFL is going to absolutely blow him up if he keeps doing that.

[jumbo]

Let's say the decision is made after the season to move on from Fields. Flus is fired, Poles stays and hires Ben Johnson or Bobby Slowik and they want Maye (I think I like Maye better than Caleb). Maybe they can move back from 2 to 1 if that helps you get over this. 

Assuming Fields plays somewhere close to the Washington game but struggles to match that performance against Cleveland and one of the Lions games. Overall serviceable, but not eye-popping OMG he is the guy after all type performance. 

On the trade market, what can you reasonbly hope for? Lots of teams need QB, but not everyone would want to trade for Fields. Say Atlanta, between the Pace connection and the mad scientist Arthur Smith. Could you get a 24 2nd and conditional 24 2nd?

He must have some value, but not enough that it tips the scale towards trading him instead of keeping him on its own. What do you all think the price for Fields would be in the offseason given the above, or similar? 

[jersey cubs fan]

A third rounder 

[BigSlick]

IMO, if Fields plays like that and you can get a 2nd rounder for him, you trade him. If you can get a 3rd rounder for him, I keep him for another year, let him play in front of whoever we draft, and see how it goes. 

The ideal scenario is you don't have to spend draft capital on a position you already spent a significant amount of capital on just a few years ago. If you have to, well, you do. But it really sucks, and sucks away potential talent from other needed areas on the roster. 

[raw]

1 hour ago, BigSlick said:

The ideal scenario is you don't have to spend draft capital on a position you already spent a significant amount of capital on just a few years ago. If you have to, well, you do. But it really sucks, and sucks away potential talent from other needed areas on the roster. 

I don't think this philosophy works on QB. Every other position, sure. But not QB. Who cares if you lose talent at another position in lieu of a potential franchise QB.

Even if that weren't true, there are underlying factors that also make this decision not as easy. Such as that 5th year option hanging out there. You have to make that decision THIS offseason. And if you decline Fields' 5th, it doesn't make sense to pass on the top QBs, because you are likely not picking top 2 in 2025 unless you are lucky enough to trade with another team who then proceeds to have the worst record again. If you accept Fields' 5th year option, you are committing 2 years to him. If you are committing 2 years to him, you are basically taking him over every QB prospect that comes out over the next 7 years most likely as that'd likely lead to a long-term deal. Because if it doesn't lead to a LT deal, you messed up bad.

[jersey cubs fan]

1 hour ago, raw said:

If you accept Fields' 5th year option, you are committing 2 years to him. If you are committing 2 years to him, you are basically taking him over every QB prospect that comes out over the next 7 years most likely as that'd likely lead to a long-term deal. Because if it doesn't lead to a LT deal, you messed up bad.

That is a very convoluted thought process. If you pick up the 5th year option you are passing in 2024 draft picks and committing 2 years, that is all. 

[SpongeWorthy]

Barnwell said in his column today that Fields could net a similar return to Sam Darnold when the Jets traded him to Carolina which was a 2, 4, and 6

I don’t really believe that even though I think Fields is a better player