Cubs offseason chit chat...

[CubinNY]

These guys aren't taking scraps thrown out by THE MAN.

A free market has boundaries too. I'm sure that there are oodles of financial information showing comparisons of player X to player Y and markups for inflation or unique skill sets (I mean how many CF/1B combos are there out there?). Anyway, the point is they are going to play for someone so I suppose not signing until they have extracted as much as they can get is a good thing. To say it's not drama is to ignore the situation.

Edit: Also, Boras drama is not putting him in the position of the bad guy, it's putting him in the position of an orchestrator of drama.  

Edited February 13, 2024 by CubinNY

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, squally1313 said:

• If they sign Belt, they're giving him the starts at first base against righties until proven otherwise. Which is fine, Busch isn't young but he has a ton of control and no major league success and this would almost definitely be a one year deal for Belt.
• You can believe Morel should be playing more third, but we have 2023 as pretty clear evidence that the organization doesn't trust his glove there. And they've already been talking up Busch at first. Busch and Morel are better hitters but not so clearly superior at this point to make up for their presumed defensive shortcomings. To TTs point, there's probably a handful of starts for them there, maybe during Imanaga starts or whatever, but not 100. 

If Belt or any second bat is going to take AB from Busch and Morel, I would rather spend any excess money on an extra pitcher. I only want that second bat if it takes AB from Madrigal and/or Wisdom. 

[squally1313]

Just now, Rcal10 said:

If Belt or any second bat is going to take AB from Busch and Morel, I would rather spend any excess money on an extra pitcher. I only want that second bat if it takes AB from Madrigal and/or Wisdom. 

There isn't really a bat out there that we can afford in addition to Bellinger that would represent a third base upgrade. Belt is a better hitter than those two, brings a lefty into the mix, and wouldn't impact anything long term. But not going to die on that hill because it's probably not much of a difference. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

1 hour ago, Backtobanks said:

With all of the optimistic views of PCA and Busch, why do we need anyone?  Of course, neither has any track record at the ML level.

It's very possible we don't. Those 2 players don't need to do a whole lot, the roster has a strong foundation you can rely on already. It's a lot different from asking 5-6 rookies to carry an offense. This is why I'm so amused at how fervently opposed to playing 2 rookies you are. You act like those players need to absolutely ball out or the team will have no shot at the division. The reality is that, if they could theoretically provide 4-5 WAR between them, it would be far better for the team than locking up one of the 2023 4 win players for 5-6+ years and 10% of the 'cap'. 

[CubinNY]

2 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

It's very possible we don't. Those 2 players don't need to do a whole lot, the roster has a strong foundation you can rely on already. It's a lot different from asking 5-6 rookies to carry an offense. This is why I'm so amused at how fervently opposed to playing 2 rookies you are. You act like those players need to absolutely ball out or the team will have no shot at the division. The reality is that, if they could theoretically provide 4-5 WAR between them, it would be far better for the team than locking up one of the 2023 4 win players for 5-6+ years and 10% of the 'cap'. 

With or without those two this roster is going to have a hard time scoring runs consistently enough to win games.

[mul21]

3 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

With or without those two this roster is going to have a hard time scoring runs consistently enough to win games.

Please show your work.  Because your claim is wildly untrue based on last year's results and this year's projections.

Edited February 13, 2024 by mul21

[CubinNY]

7 minutes ago, mul21 said:

Please show your work.  Because your claim is wildly untrue based on last year's results and this year's projections.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2023.shtml

[Rcal10]

20 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

There isn't really a bat out there that we can afford in addition to Bellinger that would represent a third base upgrade. Belt is a better hitter than those two, brings a lefty into the mix, and wouldn't impact anything long term. But not going to die on that hill because it's probably not much of a difference. 

Agreed. I would rather not spend the money for a minor uograde. Which is why I mention trades from time to time. But even that is hard to do. If they get Bellinger they might not need another lefty. As you said, Belt is not a hill to die on. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

2 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

With or without those two this roster is going to have a hard time scoring runs consistently enough to win games.

If you ignore the fact that they steal a shitload of bases, take a shitload of extra bases because they are a fast team, and have 6 positions that project to have above-average bats, sure. 

 

They horsefeathers scored the 6th most runs in baseball last year. I feel like some of you guys completely ignore this fact. There's a lot of ways runs can be scored. The Cubs are not lacking in offense. They're not this super-inconsistent offense either; just a couple weeks ago the argument that they had too many games of 3 or fewer runs was put out to pasture. They're no more inconsistent than the best offenses in baseball. They have good hitters and even one of the generally-perceived weak positions was actually pretty strong. Now they have actual options at 1B and DH and the upper-levels of the farm system are packed with viable replacements waiting for a chance to prove themselves. They're in a good position to let those positions work themselves out rather than paying FA ransoms. 

[Tim]

5 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2023.shtml

Okay???

That team finished 6th in scoring last year. 

[Rcal10]

2 hours ago, LBiittner said:

Rcal,

Could Christopher Morel be a version of a very young yankee 2018 model of miguel andujar?

Don't shoot me !

I guess anything is possible. But really Andujar had one good year and fell considerably. Morel has been fairly consistent and actually was better in year two than the first year.

[squally1313]

10 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2023.shtml

This is a weird bit

[Tryptamine]

23 minutes ago, mul21 said:

Please show your work.  Because your claim is wildly untrue based on last year's results and this year's projections.

PCA and Busch are unproven. Tachuman is very likely to regress and even if they sign Bellinger, he is very unlikely to put up another 134 wRC+. 

[mul21]

10 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2023.shtml

That's lazy, disingenuous, and patently ridiculous and you know it.

[Tim]

1 minute ago, Tryptamine said:

PCA and Busch are unproven. Tachuman is very likely to regress and even if they sign Bellinger, he is very unlikely to put up another 134 wRC+. 

They also won't be giving 263 AB to the "proven" Trey Mancini, 123 to "established big leaguer" Barnhart, 100 to "MLB veteran" Hosmer, etc.

[We Got The Whole 9]

1 minute ago, Tryptamine said:

PCA and Busch are unproven. Tachuman is very likely to regress and even if they sign Bellinger, he is very unlikely to put up another 134 wRC+. 

This just completely ignores the many good hitters the team still has and the overall speed of the roster that dominates the basepaths.

[Bertz]

I do not think Jed is doing a Ha Seong Kim trade at this point, but sending an outfielder like Canario San Diego's way makes a ton of sense.  Bring Steven Wilson back this way maybe?

[LBiittner]

28 minutes ago, Tim said:

They also won't be giving 263 AB to the "proven" Trey Mancini, 123 to "established big leaguer" Barnhart, 100 to "MLB veteran" Hosmer, etc.

Could we have purchased a decent player/pitcher for one season inplace of paying those turds?

[We Got The Whole 9]

11 minutes ago, Bertz said:

I do not think Jed is doing a Ha Seong Kim trade at this point, but sending an outfielder like Canario San Diego's way makes a ton of sense.  Bring Steven Wilson back this way maybe?

You think Canario is enough to get Kim and another piece? I don't see that. 

[Tim]

12 minutes ago, Bertz said:

I do not think Jed is doing a Ha Seong Kim trade at this point, but sending an outfielder like Canario San Diego's way makes a ton of sense.  Bring Steven Wilson back this way maybe?

I'll let them have Canario in return for Salas and Thorpe.

[Tim]

1 minute ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

You think Canario is enough to get Kim and another piece? I don't see that. 

He's saying that he doesn't see Jed trading for Kim at this point. He's targeting a mid-level reliever in return for Canario.

[Jason Ross]

4 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

You think Canario is enough to get Kim and another piece? I don't see that. 

I think @Bertzis saying that the Cubs and the Padres could maybe come together on Canario for Wilson, if I'm reading his post correctly. 

I agree, I don't see Canario being half enough for Kim. But I think Bertz does too!

[Tim]

4 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

Could we have purchased a decent player/pitcher for one season inplace of paying those turds?

The problem with any veteran willing to take a one year deal is that they provide almost as much risk (sometimes more) as the "unproven" rookie.

[LBiittner]

Quote

45 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I guess anything is possible. But really Andujar had one good year and fell considerably. Morel has been fairly consistent and actually was better in year two than the first year.

 

Both are the shits on D 

[Jason Ross]

In terms of what I think of the Cubs offense, I kind of sit in the middle ground. I think the Cubs probably got some positive variance last year and lucked out a bit to score the sixth most runs. With that said, I'm not super doom-and-gloom, as I think they'll probably have some young players who will improve their offense (Michael Busch as one of them) and think they can continue to win on the margins with positive base running. As of today I think they're probably something around the 8-12th best offense if I was trying to ballpark it, and one that relies more on the depth of the lineup than star power, but I also think they could be a hair better if somethings come together or they re-add Bellinger.