Cubs offseason chit chat...

[Backtobanks]

1 hour ago, Tryptamine said:

It's talked about because many of us feel that keeping PCA around if you sign Bellinger is counter productive. You don't give Bellinger starting CFer money only to move him to 1B where you could get equal talent for a lot less money on the open market. 

That's been exactly what I've been saying all along.  Signing Bellinger to CF money makes no sense if you're going to turn the job over to PCA.  Bellinger in CF is fine for at least 4-5 years leaving PCA for trade bait in a major deal to improve the starting rotation.

[Bertz]

10 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Sorry, when you added him in with those names (trading from the young pitchers like Brown and Wesneski, who are likely going to be in the BP at best) I assumed you meant for him to be in the BP with those names. Manaea opted out of $12.5m and probably thinks he can get more. He's not a definitive better player moving forward over Wicks, so spending at least $12.5m over Wicks (for what is likely going to be 2+ years) is a bad use of budget for the Cubs who only have $70m and need to upgrade a bunch of places. Upgrading marginally on their 5th SP seems like a bad usage of that money and I'm not sure he's any better than Jordan Wicks moving forward.

Every starting pitcher the Cubs have except Assad and Wesneski has a pretty elevated injury risk.  Every SP the Cubs have except for Steele has high performance risk.  Jed's clearly not going to spend on stars this winter, so the rotation *needs* numbers.  It's 7 deep right now, with presumably a front half SP on the way.  That's great!  We should make sure it stays that way.

[Jason Ross]

6 minutes ago, Bertz said:

Every starting pitcher the Cubs have except Assad and Wesneski has a pretty elevated injury risk.  Every SP the Cubs have except for Steele has high performance risk.  Jed's clearly not going to spend on stars this winter, so the rotation *needs* numbers.  It's 7 deep right now, with presumably a front half SP on the way.  That's great!  We should make sure it stays that way.

Right. But I don't think you do that by taking Wicks at making him be the guy who's waiting, either. The Cubs should really be giving Jordan Wicks the runway out of the gate, IMO. There's some stuff to cleanup there, but there's stuff to cleanup in Manaea as well. He's not so good we should give him two years, and the Cubs shouldn't be the team that gives him that. 

I'd be for Manaea if he's option number 6 or 7. I'd be for Manaea if he's one year. What I don't think is going to be in the cards for Manaea is where his market disappears for him to be option 6/7 or for one year. Someone's going to give him #5 on their OD rotation and someone's probably giving him two years. 

The Cubs should be always looking for depth. Please don't make me out to be the guy who's saying that we don't or we need just the five. I just don't think the Cubs and Manaea are a good fit for what Manaea is probably looking for, and what the Cubs should probably be looking for. He seems simultaneously not good enough and too good for what the Cubs need.

[Tryptamine]

People made fun of the Cardinals for their FA SP signing just a month ago, but are now advocating for the Cubs doing the same thing. 1 front end starter surrounded by a half dozen mediocre to bad pitchers.

[LBiittner]

6 minutes ago, Backtobanks said:

That's been exactly what I've been saying all along.  Signing Bellinger to CF money makes no sense if you're going to turn the job over to PCA.  Bellinger in CF is fine for at least 4-5 years leaving PCA for trade bait in a major deal to improve the starting rotation.

Do gms trade good young starters for good young positional players straight up?

 

[Tryptamine]

Just now, LBiittner said:

Do gms trade good young starters for good young positional players straight up?

 

If reports from many sources are accurate, Seattle is ready to do just that. Though I recently read they could even be willing to move Castillo if they feel the need to shed some money.

[Bertz]

5 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Right. But I don't think you do that by taking Wicks at making him be the guy who's waiting, either. The Cubs should really be giving Jordan Wicks the runway out of the gate, IMO. There's some stuff to cleanup there, but there's stuff to cleanup in Manaea as well. He's not so good we should give him two years, and the Cubs shouldn't be the team that gives him that. 

I'd be for Manaea if he's option number 6 or 7. I'd be for Manaea if he's one year. What I don't think is going to be in the cards for Manaea is where his market disappears for him to be option 6/7 or for one year. Someone's going to give him #5 on their OD rotation and someone's probably giving him two years. 

The Cubs should be always looking for depth. Please don't make me out to be the guy who's saying that we don't or we need just the five. I just don't think the Cubs and Manaea are a good fit for what Manaea is probably looking for, and what the Cubs should probably be looking for. He seems simultaneously not good enough and too good for what the Cubs need.

Jordan Wicks had a 16% strikeout rate last year, 11% after his debut. He did not exactly go scorched earth on Iowa.  I like him, he does not need to have his name in pen for the opening day rotation. 

[LBiittner]

1 minute ago, Tryptamine said:

If reports from many sources are accurate, Seattle is ready to do just that. Though I recently read they could even be willing to move Castillo if they feel the need to shed some money.

Perhaps Seattle is waiting on Snell before they make a trade from their rotation? He was rumored to love Seattle in his free agency.

[gocubs218]

this just seems inevitable at this point. I don’t blame Jed for waiting this out a little longer. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

4 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

Man, Jordan Wicks is so underrated. No thanks on Manaea 

TBD 

[Petrey10]

I just don’t feel comfortable saying Bellinger is fine for the next 4-5years in CF without have an instant nervousness in me….

[Tryptamine]

2 minutes ago, Petrey10 said:

I just don’t feel comfortable saying Bellinger is fine for the next 4-5years in CF without have an instant nervousness in me….

I'm not ready to say 5, but I comfortably think three and a pretty good shot at 4, so if he's in the COF/1B the last 3 years of the deal then that's fine with me.

[Bertz]

32 minutes ago, gocubs218 said:

this just seems inevitable at this point. I don’t blame Jed for waiting this out a little longer. 

Especially with how connected Heyman is to Boras this seems notable

[ILMindState]

That Heyman sound bite sounds more like he's making an educated guess rather than citing something he's heard from sources.

[Jason Ross]

1 hour ago, Bertz said:

Jordan Wicks had a 16% strikeout rate last year, 11% after his debut. He did not exactly go scorched earth on Iowa.  I like him, he does not need to have his name in pen for the opening day rotation. 

Never said it had to be in pen. And I acknowledged he had things to work on, Wicks isn't perfect. Sean Manaea has greatly underperformed his xdata his last two years and 250 IP. I don't think he's the kind of pitcher you sign to erase Jordan Wicks name from the rotation, either, regardless of what he did over his last handful of innings after adding a new pitch. Manaea is fine. I'll take the Cubs ability to turn Wicks into a quality arm in the rotation over them blocking him with a pretty sketchy arm on a multi-year contract. The Giants are a team who works with arms pretty well and they were the team who couldn't keep him in the rotation. 

Again, if the Cubs can sign him to be a swingman on a one year pact; sign me up. I have strong doubts Sean Manaea wants that kind of a contract and in that case, the Cubs and Manaea don't make a ton of sense to me. 

[Jason Ross]

17 minutes ago, ILMindState said:

That Heyman sound bite sounds more like he's making an educated guess rather than citing something he's heard from sources.

Yeah, it just feels like he's speculating to me and connecting dots. I don't think there's much to report here, and more or less that Heyman's guessing based on Keirmaier and Lee signing with the Giants and Jays.

[UMFan83]

After all the Ohtani drama recently, I am very skeptical about all reporting, assuming its all to push the agenda of an agent or a team.  Could definitely just be speculation as these reporters are frequently asked to come on shows and talk about the hot stove regardless of whether they've received any intel or not. 

[thawv]

So, is Counsell still going to be using a 6 man rotation?

[LBiittner]

7 minutes ago, thawv said:

So, is Counsell still going to be using a 6 man rotation?

I'm kinda liking that idea. 

[Ding Dong Johnson]

double p

Edited December 28, 2023 by Ding Dong Johnson

[Ding Dong Johnson]

35 minutes ago, thawv said:

So, is Counsell still going to be using a 6 man rotation?

They’re going to need about 4 more pitchers.

[JBears79]

41 minutes ago, thawv said:

So, is Counsell still going to be using a 6 man rotation?

I honestly wouldn't mind it.

[Rcal10]

44 minutes ago, thawv said:

So, is Counsell still going to be using a 6 man rotation?

Why are you asking that? 

[Backtobanks]

3 hours ago, LBiittner said:

Do gms trade good young starters for good young positional players straight up?

 

I didn't say straight up, but PCA would greatly reduce any other prospects that might need to be added to complete the deal.

 

[thawv]

10 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Why are you asking that? 

Because he's used a 6 man rotation the last 3 years.  His top 2 starters get like 31-32 starts, and the other 4 get like 24-25 starts.  Then obviously there's going to be injuries to throw that out of whack.