Chicago Bears Offseason Thread (the tank must payoff)

[raw]

I think my least favorite thing about it is effectively counting on a 2nd round rookie WR to be your WR1. All the line improvement in the world isn't going to fix the passing offense if none of the WRs can get open or make catches.

 

This is also why I'm in huge favor of either trading some draft capital for a real WR1 (like Adams from the Raiders), or snag any WR1 that ends up a cap casualty on another overburdened roster, since the FA crop is seriously weak (Julio Jones might be the best option and he's not a great option).

 

So, I do disagree with the bolded part. I think OL help would work wonders. The OL was a little bit better in 2021 and for the most part we weren't talking about Mooney not being able to get open. The Bears just played Robinson, who has never been a great separator and a bunch of tiny guys who took a while to get open when teams were physical with them.

 

I think 2023 Claypool will be better than 2021 Robinson at getting open. And Mooney with his speed, will get open if you give Fields time, as he has in the past. I just think the OL he put together isn't to the level where you're good with almost no help to the weapons. If he was adding elite level play at C, LG and RT, then Claypool, Mooney, Rice is probably fine. But on paper that is a middle of the road OL, at best and still a bottom 1/3 group of weapons.

Less about time, it may also be the ability to run 3-4 receiver routes more often. The Bears OL+TE+RB+FB I think often gave "enough" time which is partially why ESPNs Pass Rush win rate was being fooled all season. It's the right route tree combo with the right time that has to hit.

 

This is mostly a theory, but I think a reasonable one and that I may dig in with the PFF data later.

 

But hopefully Fields will be on the Jalen Hurts progression. That may be largely possible even without a AJ Brown type add.

 

Yep. That throw to Velus vs Buffalo. The deep ball to Pettis vs Washington. The deep one to St. Brown against Jaire. The Mooney 1 hander highlight, all those throws were 2 man routes (a couple had checkdowns leak out late). But those were all max protect plays. The Bears had to commit extra blockers to be able to throw deep, which is Fields' strength. So yeah, having the ability to protect while giving him more than 2 or 3 options would go a long way.

[raw]

I also think the need for a #1 WR (and also the term itself) are overblown. There's some pretty good offenses out there that don't have that elite WR.

 

LA Chargers- 3rd in the league in passing. I think people assume Mike Williams and Keenan Allen are #1 level WRs. But both have been injured a ton this year and Herbert hasn't seemed to miss them. Williams had 1100+ yards last year, but only 1 other year over 1000 yards and that was on 49 catches after a crazy 20+ YPC. Allen is similar to what Allen Robinson was these days. Better separation, but more of a possession guy in the slot than a true alpha WR that's going to win on the outside.

 

SF 49ers- 13th in passing, despite 25th in attempts and 3 different QBs. They have zero 1000 yard receivers thru 16 weeks, And I know Deebo has been hurt but he was 3rd on the team in YPG before he got hurt, he wasn't hitting 1000 either. And many consider him a 1 based on last year, which is his only season over 802 yards.

 

Jacksonville- 10th in passing. Obviously, Zay Jones, Christian Kirk and Marvin Jones are not #1s. Can argue that Mooney and Claypool would each be the best WR on this team. But they have near elite level OL play and obviously also a 2nd year QB. Kirk is barely over 1000 yards this year, but they spread the ball around to 3 WRs, a TE, RB and a bunch of depth and gadget players. Probably what the Bears need to model their passing game strategy to if they can't get an elite WR.

 

Now that's only 3 of the top 13 passing offenses, but the Jets and Saints are also top 1/2 of the league without #1s (great OLs coincidentally as well). And literally every team is ahead of the Bears when Baltimore, Atlanta, Tennessee, NY Giants and Houston probably have a more pathetic depth chart than the Bears had when Mooney and Claypool were healthy.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I also think the need for a #1 WR (and also the term itself) are overblown. There's some pretty good offenses out there that don't have that elite WR.

 

LA Chargers- 3rd in the league in passing. I think people assume Mike Williams and Keenan Allen are #1 level WRs. But both have been injured a ton this year and Herbert hasn't seemed to miss them. Williams had 1100+ yards last year, but only 1 other year over 1000 yards and that was on 49 catches after a crazy 20+ YPC. Allen is similar to what Allen Robinson was these days. Better separation, but more of a possession guy in the slot than a true alpha WR that's going to win on the outside.

 

SF 49ers- 13th in passing, despite 25th in attempts and 3 different QBs. They have zero 1000 yard receivers thru 16 weeks, And I know Deebo has been hurt but he was 3rd on the team in YPG before he got hurt, he wasn't hitting 1000 either. And many consider him a 1 based on last year, which is his only season over 802 yards.

 

Jacksonville- 10th in passing. Obviously, Zay Jones, Christian Kirk and Marvin Jones are not #1s. Can argue that Mooney and Claypool would each be the best WR on this team. But they have near elite level OL play and obviously also a 2nd year QB. Kirk is barely over 1000 yards this year, but they spread the ball around to 3 WRs, a TE, RB and a bunch of depth and gadget players. Probably what the Bears need to model their passing game strategy to if they can't get an elite WR.

 

Now that's only 3 of the top 13 passing offenses, but the Jets and Saints are also top 1/2 of the league without #1s (great OLs coincidentally as well). And literally every team is ahead of the Bears when Baltimore, Atlanta, Tennessee, NY Giants and Houston probably have a more pathetic depth chart than the Bears had when Mooney and Claypool were healthy.

 

I'd tend to agree that #1 wr's aren't a truly definable required piece, what I think is actually more critical is having multiple good options. That puts more pressure on a D than a singe guy running his route

[jersey cubs fan]

I’m a big believer in a vastly improved line helping the other groups, and that if you don’t have one you need elite playmakers. Easiest way is to improve line, and it’s probably the best option as well. A better line will help lesser receivers actually make impacts.

[gflore34]

I’m a big believer in a vastly improved line helping the other groups, and that if you don’t have one you need elite playmakers. Easiest way is to improve line, and it’s probably the best option as well. A better line will help lesser receivers actually make impacts.

 

Without a doubt the line on both sides of ball is the key, look at the Bears this season. If they were able to pass block, we would not be talking about how the WR's can't get separation conversely, if they were able to rush the QB we would not be talking about how bad Kyler Gordon has been. Last Sunday really didn't think the Lions WR's are all that special but, Goff was given all day on nearly every passing attempt so, sure, they all looked like Pro Bowlers.

[UMFan83]

Hmmm

 

[WrigleyField 22]

I’m a big believer in a vastly improved line helping the other groups, and that if you don’t have one you need elite playmakers. Easiest way is to improve line, and it’s probably the best option as well. A better line will help lesser receivers actually make impacts.

Comments like that are of course reminiscent of this meme:

 

 

I think the line improvement being easier is definitely true given all the factors for/against Bears going into 2023. But certainly I wouldn't say it's generally, the "easiest" way over getting a playmaker. Nor is it necessarily the more sustainable team-building way.

[jersey cubs fan]

Hmmm

 

Remind me, is he the good blocking receiver? Or am I thinking of Pringle?

[jersey cubs fan]

I think the line improvement being easier is definitely true given all the factors for/against Bears going into 2023. But certainly I wouldn't say it's generally, the "easiest" way over getting a playmaker. Nor is it necessarily the more sustainable team-building way.

It’s a 5 man group that takes at least 7 to get through a season, so it’s in constant need of refreshment. But with an emerging qb I’d prefer better protection early in the career if I have a choice.

[UMFan83]

Hmmm

 

Remind me, is he the good blocking receiver? Or am I thinking of Pringle?

 

That's ESB (and Harry)

[We Got The Whole 9]

ESB gets 1.25m

[minnesotacubsfan]

woo hoo Poles spent some money!

[raw]

Hmmm

 

Remind me, is he the good blocking receiver? Or am I thinking of Pringle?

 

Both are good blockers. Neither is good at receiving.

[WrigleyField 22]

Yea we have elite run blocking WR.

 

Woo

 

Interesting to see if there's any serious guarantee on this ESB extension.

[WrigleyField 22]

I think the line improvement being easier is definitely true given all the factors for/against Bears going into 2023. But certainly I wouldn't say it's generally, the "easiest" way over getting a playmaker. Nor is it necessarily the more sustainable team-building way.

It’s a 5 man group that takes at least 7 to get through a season, so it’s in constant need of refreshment. But with an emerging qb I’d prefer better protection early in the career if I have a choice.

Without getting to pedantic or creating mutually exclusive options, I'll take the Ja'Marr Chase side of the debate over the Penei Sewell side.

[WrigleyField 22]

I think the line improvement being easier is definitely true given all the factors for/against Bears going into 2023. But certainly I wouldn't say it's generally, the "easiest" way over getting a playmaker. Nor is it necessarily the more sustainable team-building way.

It’s a 5 man group that takes at least 7 to get through a season, so it’s in constant need of refreshment. But with an emerging qb I’d prefer better protection early in the career if I have a choice.

Without getting to pedantic or creating mutually exclusive options, I'll take the Ja'Marr Chase side of the debate over the Penei Sewell side.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I think the line improvement being easier is definitely true given all the factors for/against Bears going into 2023. But certainly I wouldn't say it's generally, the "easiest" way over getting a playmaker. Nor is it necessarily the more sustainable team-building way.

It’s a 5 man group that takes at least 7 to get through a season, so it’s in constant need of refreshment. But with an emerging qb I’d prefer better protection early in the career if I have a choice.

Without getting to pedantic or creating mutually exclusive options, I'll take the Ja'Marr Chase side of the debate over the Penei Sewell side.

 

i'd agree if you can get a Ja'Marr chase, but its only a one guy vs one guy debate and also, is there a WR of JC's level in this years draft?

[jersey cubs fan]

I think the line improvement being easier is definitely true given all the factors for/against Bears going into 2023. But certainly I wouldn't say it's generally, the "easiest" way over getting a playmaker. Nor is it necessarily the more sustainable team-building way.

It’s a 5 man group that takes at least 7 to get through a season, so it’s in constant need of refreshment. But with an emerging qb I’d prefer better protection early in the career if I have a choice.

Without getting to pedantic or creating mutually exclusive options, I'll take the Ja'Marr Chase side of the debate over the Penei Sewell side.

I would take the unavailable superstar receiver as well

[raw]

Yea we have elite run blocking WR.

 

Woo

 

Interesting to see if there's any serious guarantee on this ESB extension.

 

Sounds like 1.25M

 

According to Kevin Fishbain, the Bears have signed WR Equanimeous St. Brown to a one-year extension that runs through the 2023 season. Ian Rapoport adds the deal is worth $1.25 million in total, which isn't a huge investment.

[WrigleyField 22]

Yea we have elite run blocking WR.

 

Woo

 

Interesting to see if there's any serious guarantee on this ESB extension.

 

Sounds like 1.25M

 

According to Kevin Fishbain, the Bears have signed WR Equanimeous St. Brown to a one-year extension that runs through the 2023 season. Ian Rapoport adds the deal is worth $1.25 million in total, which isn't a huge investment.

Is it 1.25M guaranteed?

[WrigleyField 22]

It’s a 5 man group that takes at least 7 to get through a season, so it’s in constant need of refreshment. But with an emerging qb I’d prefer better protection early in the career if I have a choice.

Without getting to pedantic or creating mutually exclusive options, I'll take the Ja'Marr Chase side of the debate over the Penei Sewell side.

I would take the unavailable superstar receiver as well

Well yea, basically what I said before, yea.

 

Like no one should ever have a serious convo about parting with a high value pick for a OL in the way that we'll probably have that convo about a WR if they don't draft one. Which isn't also to day they could very well spend 50M on the OL this offseason, but it would be spread out across 3-4 non stars.

[raw]

Yea we have elite run blocking WR.

 

Woo

 

Interesting to see if there's any serious guarantee on this ESB extension.

 

Sounds like 1.25M

 

According to Kevin Fishbain, the Bears have signed WR Equanimeous St. Brown to a one-year extension that runs through the 2023 season. Ian Rapoport adds the deal is worth $1.25 million in total, which isn't a huge investment.

Is it 1.25M guaranteed?

 

NO idea.

[BigbadB]

The Bears can afford the OLIne talent and the star receiver this offseason. The question is where will they find the star receiver.

[raw]

The Bears can afford the OLIne talent and the star receiver this offseason. The question is where will they find the star receiver.

 

Only way is going to be a trade. Either as part of a package in a trade down, or by trading a bunch of future picks, which I don't see them doing. I think there will be a decent amount of WRs made available this offseason, but IDK how many are true stars, but I can see any or all of these guys coming available.

 

DeAndre Hopkins- 31 in June, Kyler's money going up, Hollywood's 5th year is 13M and long-term candidate

Keenan Allen- 31 in a couple months, Williams got a big deal, Herbert's gonna get a Brinks. Could be cut w/ 25M cap hit and injuries

Michael Thomas- 30 this year, cut candidate, but hasn't played in like 3 years

Jerry Jeudy- signed 2 WRs long-term and Russ. No 1st rounder, so could get a high pick or 2 from him.

Tee Higgins- Chase and Burrow have to be paid top of their positions

Brandin Cooks- 29, has been on the trade block for 2 years, issues w/ organization this year, probably not going for a 1

DJ Moore- did just sign a long-term deal and Carolina may not fully rebuild, but did trade McCaffery and have a couple other WRs in house

 

Moore interests me if Carolina would move him as part of a trade up to the top 2 this year. Higgins as well, but IDK that the Bears would trade from 1 or 2 to the late 20s where Cincinnati will likely pick (I would, but I'm a huge Higgins fan). Maybe they'd take a 2024 1st if the Bears can get an extra on a trade down. Jeudy, I don't see working out a trade since Denver has no picks and the Bears aren't going to give them 2 overall for him and they probably won't want a future pick since they need help now and have no picks. The other guys are all too old. They'd be the oldest player on the Bears offense, assuming they move on from Whitehair this offseason. I'm not trading anything for a guy with like 2 more years of high level production.

[WrigleyField 22]

Denver does have a late first fwiw. From SF by way of Miami (Trey Lance and Bradley Chubb trades)

 

Hopkins is the most intersting of the guys who might be attainable for less than a haul (something less than a 2nd). Higgins probably thr only one who I might go a first for, but they'd need to trade down first then use one of the extra picks for him.