Trading Heyward

[KingCubsFan]

The Giants have a desperate need for outfield help. How insane is something like Heyward, Happ, Zagunis, Grimm and $$$ for Melancon and Shark?

 

Or what about seeing how much the Red Sox don't want to pay Porcello or Price anymore?

Not interested in using Happ to get rid of Heyward's contract. Unless it's required in order to sign Harper or something else similarly awesome, I'd rather keep Heyward as a 4th outfielder if nothing else.

[javy knows my name]

The Giants have a desperate need for outfield help. How insane is something like Heyward, Happ, Zagunis, Grimm and $$$ for Melancon and Shark?

 

Or what about seeing how much the Red Sox don't want to pay Porcello or Price anymore?

Not interested in using Happ to get rid of Heyward's contract. Unless it's required in order to sign Harper or something else similarly awesome, I'd rather keep Heyward as a 4th outfielder if nothing else.

 

Which is where Heyward would be anyway with that ridiculous outfield

[davell]

 

That can't be right. Maybe from a 'we're sending dollars independent of any contracts owed' sense, but in this case it can easily take the form of paying part of Heyward and Martin's contracts.

 

I'm trying to find it. For some reason, I was thinking it was from Passan. Maybe talking about why A-Rod was so untradeable.

 

What I'm not sure of, is whether it can be APPLIED in different ways, but it has to be ACTUALLY paid off within that period.

 

It was an odd rule, to say the least. If I find it, I'll post it obviously.

In Laws chat yesterday he was talking about a Stanton trade and mentioned any money the Marlins would throw in would kick in down the road after he doesn’t exercise his opt out. So according to him it would be allowed.

Yeah, that's true. The opt outs can negate things, even if what I said was true, which I haven't found yet anyway.

[toonsterwu]

The Giants have a desperate need for outfield help. How insane is something like Heyward, Happ, Zagunis, Grimm and $$$ for Melancon and Shark?

 

Or what about seeing how much the Red Sox don't want to pay Porcello or Price anymore?

 

Other points have been made, but just wanted to say that my guess is that if Shark is moved, he would have a nice enough market on his own. 3/54 for a guy with his production? I think a lot of teams would jump on that.

 

______

 

The problem with almost all Heyward suggestions I've seen so far is, IMO, that it benefits the Cubs far more than the opposing organization.

 

Maybe something like Heyward, Caratini, and 45M from 2021-23 for Tulo, Martin, and 20M from 2018-2019? That basically says Caratini + the odds of Heyward's bounceback compared to Tulo/Martin's bounceback are worth 20 million(using luxury tax calcs), which seems about right.

 

This is interesting. So, I think the question becomes, simply, assuming Heyward approved a deal, what would the Jays do at shortstop, and would they want Heyward on the books for, what, 7-8 million (too lazy to check right now) as a backup OF from 21-23? Still, the move seems a bit more advantageous for us (clearing any money from 21-23 will help with extensions), and Martin/Tulo could fill key roles with us in the near future. It seems close to possible, so nice job. I also wonder if the Jays would be able to find people to take enough of Tulo and Martin's contracts on and get some lottery tickets, and that route might be more amenable to them.

[toonsterwu]

So was looking around to try and find a contract similar in length to Heyward's and at such a high cost, and I came up with Chris Davis, who also has deferred money, which could help make a deal happen. In real life, I don't think the Orioles do it (they have a weird affinity for Davis), but I wonder about something where Heyward goes to the Orioles (can move Mancini or Trumbo to 1st, improve OF defense, Hays can still slide into a corner OF spot), Davis goes to a team needing a DH (for hypothetical purposes, lets say the Red Sox don't want to take on the massive Stanton deal and are amenable with just adding power), and the Cubs send money and just get something (what that is, I don't know). By no means would I be suggesting some sort of Cubs highway robbery. I'm just outlining a random thought.

[imb]

Trade him for Ellsbury and put him in CF with Almora.

[Liam Neeson]

The Heyward to the Giants rumor is being kicked around.

 

My favorite response I've seen so far.

 

Heyward has an opt out after next season.

This would be for a 1 year contract?! Why.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This is interesting. So, I think the question becomes, simply, assuming Heyward approved a deal, what would the Jays do at shortstop, and would they want Heyward on the books for, what, 7-8 million (too lazy to check right now) as a backup OF from 21-23? Still, the move seems a bit more advantageous for us (clearing any money from 21-23 will help with extensions), and Martin/Tulo could fill key roles with us in the near future. It seems close to possible, so nice job. I also wonder if the Jays would be able to find people to take enough of Tulo and Martin's contracts on and get some lottery tickets, and that route might be more amenable to them.

 

I would think Heyward's approval is probably the hardest part of that deal, as there's no real reason for him to accept it compared to, say, San Francisco. It's possible that Toronto might be able to get something more palatable by trading Tulo and Martin separately, but 1) our premise is that Toronto believes in Heyward improving to at least an acceptable offensive level(and that's really not a huge jump given his defense) and 2) Tulo and Martin's contracts are big enough that it limits the number of suitors pretty significantly.

[David]

The Heyward to the Giants rumor is being kicked around.

 

My favorite response I've seen so far.

 

Heyward has an opt out after next season.

This would be for a 1 year contract?! Why.

 

lmao

[Post Count Padder]

Those are fair points. Actually, the Rockies have a bunch of bad contracts. They have Ian Desmond and nowhere to play him. Thoughts?

[jersey cubs fan]

The Heyward to the Giants rumor is being kicked around.

 

My favorite response I've seen so far.

 

Heyward has an opt out after next season.

This would be for a 1 year contract?! Why.

is that rondon giants fan?

[Brian707]

Heyward has an opt out after next season.

This would be for a 1 year contract?! Why.

 

 

[davell]

He seems happy in Chicago. Personally, I don't think he'd accept a trade at all currently. He likes his teammates, the city, and is playing for one of the elite teams in baseball.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Those are fair points. Actually, the Rockies have a bunch of bad contracts. They have Ian Desmond and nowhere to play him. Thoughts?

yes, they technically are.

[Perd]

Why is everyone pretending that Chili Davis isn’t going to make Heyward an .850ish OPS beast? Edited October 27, 2017 by Perd

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why is everyone pretending that Chili Davis isn’t going to make Heyward an .850ish OPS beast?

 

[Thusly Boned]

He seems happy in Chicago. Personally, I don't think he'd accept a trade at all currently. He likes his teammates, the city, and is playing for one of the elite teams in baseball.

 

I think that this is probably accurate, and I expect that he would veto just about any trade as well.

 

And though I certainly do not have any great expectations at this point, I haven't completely given up hope for Heyward offensively.

[Bote McBoteface]

As part of the package that brings Stanton to the Cubs?

 

Thats the only way ive been able to think of something working; use his contract to offset Stanton's. But then youve still gotta find a way to add enough value to the package to net Stanton, and Heyward doesnt even inch you toward that unless you start to eat a good chunk of his contract.

 

I can see the Rockies valuing him, though, and I can't see him objecting to calling Coors home. I think its most likely that we just start using him as the super-defensive sub that he's been performing as.

[Regular Show]

I've been thinking about trade scenarios for Heyward for a long time as well. I thought about the permutations for a trade with Toronto and taking back Tulo, but I just don't think he would approve a trade there. Realistically, the best chance to trade him is next offseason when he has a limited no-trade clause.

 

The Cubs also need to use him as defensive sub who occasionally starts if he is still here. This past season sucked in part because we had so many other players perform poorly along with Heyward. Maddon really loves great team defense and it seems like he'll trade offense-for-defense which means Heyward will probably get more playing time than he deserves.

 

I don't know how realistic our chances are for signing B. Harper next offseason, but we need to stress to Heyward that his playing time will keep decreasing going forward hopefully making him more amenable to a trade down the road. The Cubs might have to trade him to a team on his no-trade list.

 

I'd say the chances he gets moved this offseason are 1% (maybe less).

[imb]

The Heyward to the Giants rumor is being kicked around.

 

My favorite response I've seen so far.

 

Heyward has an opt out after next season.

This would be for a 1 year contract?! Why.

is that rondon giants fan?

 

every fanbase has a derwood

[Derwood]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/crying.gif

[toonsterwu]

Trade him for Ellsbury and put him in CF with Almora.

 

Sure, but why would the Yankees do that?

 

____

 

Btw, in all these hypotheticals, I'm assuming, for discussion's sake, that Heyward approved the deal. In the Toronto case, let me rephrase my question about it then - Even if they believe in Heyward's offense improving enough in the near future, what seems somewhat clear is that they might be going on a rebuild, particularly with the Red Sox and Yankees looking fairly imposing for a good half-decade or so. Thus, I question if they would want Heyward on the books, as a backup OF, in his mid-30's, even at a diminished rate. At that point, it's fairly likely that their corner OF roles will be at least filled by 1, if not 2 of their youngsters (I think Vlad Jr. moves to corner OF), and we really can't be certain about Heyward's defensive value at that age. Thus, I wonder if they might be, in this hypothetical, more willing to take a short term hit (perhaps even through keeping Tulo/Martin if they can't be moved), then tying up, however minimal, long term resources.

 

There is obviously the x-factor of Caratini in the hypothetical there, so that is a consideration, although those would likely be his arb years at that point, so unless they really believed in Caratini, it's one of those long-term planning things that might not sway as positively as one might suspect.

 

Anyhow, all for discussion's sake, as I really don't expect Heyward to be moved this offseason.

[Tim]

Why is everyone pretending that Chili Davis isn’t going to make Heyward an .850ish OPS beast?

 

This is good just on a straight up basis. With the Perd tie-in, it is amazing.

[17 Seconds]

i've always thought there would eventually be an overpaid athlete who is so consumed by shame that he decides to give back most of the money to change his reputation into a selfless hero. heyward could be that guy.

 

first he gave us "the speech", then he gave us "the opt-out"

[Sammy Sofa]

Why is everyone pretending that Chili Davis isn’t going to make Heyward an .850ish OPS beast?

 

This is good just on a straight up basis. With the Perd tie-in, it is amazing.

 

I am genuinely jealous at how TT just steps up and drops maybe the most perfect gif/reply/poster combo of all time. I've cracked up every damn time I keep seeing it.