Trading Heyward

[jersey cubs fan]

Reading trade scenarios centered around guys with No Trade Clauses is one of my biggest internet pet peeves.

 

You might as well talk about the scenarios after Heyward opts out of his contract, cause the likelihood is about as high for that as it would be for him to waive that NTC and be sent off to not contend in san fran.

NTC are waived all the time.

 

It is much more crazy to think he'll opt out of a deal, giving away money in the process, than to think he might want to start fresh somewhere else.

[jersey cubs fan]

no trade clauses do not exist because a player never wants to be traded, they exist so they have input into their future.

[biittner77]

no trade clauses do not exist because a player never wants to be traded, they exist so they have input into their future.

 

More importantly, would Heyward do it this off season? I don't really see that happening. After next season I think it becomes a lot more likely provided he stays about the same value wise.

[Andy]

I'll agree it's unlikely that he oks a trade but if you squint hard enough, you could see him maybe want to be a starter somewhere else as opposed to a vilified bench player here. If his production is about the same, the fan base in Chicago will be a lot harder on him than they would be where ever he got traded. Heyward worked hard last off season. He's a competitor and for that reason he might be willing to go somewhere where he'll have a chance to play every day and prove everyone wrong.

Is he all that vilified? I feel like considering the circumstances he takes much less crap than one would expect a high-priced free agent bust to take.

[Sammy Sofa]

He will be if he continues to stink, unfortunately. I think he had a lot of goodwill carry over this year that won't last.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'll agree it's unlikely that he oks a trade but if you squint hard enough, you could see him maybe want to be a starter somewhere else as opposed to a vilified bench player here. If his production is about the same, the fan base in Chicago will be a lot harder on him than they would be where ever he got traded. Heyward worked hard last off season. He's a competitor and for that reason he might be willing to go somewhere where he'll have a chance to play every day and prove everyone wrong.

Is he all that vilified? I feel like considering the circumstances he takes much less crap than one would expect a high-priced free agent bust to take.

 

Given that his two seasons have correlated with a WS championship, 2 division titles and 2 NLCS appearances, he's been able to avoid the worst of what the fan base has to offer. But he did quit social media over the horsefeathers he took online and if this team actually does struggle, he will almost certainly take the brunt.

[CubinNY]

I hate when fans get mad at the player and not the team when a contract doesn't work out.

[champaignchris]

I hate when fans get mad at the player and not the team when a contract doesn't work out.

 

Sure. When a player gets way overpaid and then keeps doing what he’s always done or has a fairly reasonable rate of decline due to age, getting pissed at the player doesn’t make much sense. Alfonso Soriano, for example.

 

In Heyward’s case, there’s a pretty extreme regression coinciding exactly with signing the big contract and no age or injury related reasons to explain it. I think getting pissed at Heyward isn’t an extreme reaction. He’s been spared grief due to the team playing well and the fact that he’s a good guy that’s owned up to his (lack of) performance. That won’t last.

[David]

i've never really gotten directly mad at players for sucking (barring extreme cases like brian schlitter or something). just sometimes mad at decision makers for playing them or acquiring them, depending on the circumstances.

 

this heyward thing i can only attribute to bad luck...drastic decline on his part out of nowhere. the guy he had been when he was signed was the guy we were all (mostly) excited about signing. i've seen no indication that any of it is a lack of effort on heyward's part, either. disappointed, yes, big time, but i'm not really mad at anyone for how this has played out.

[biittner77]

He will be if he continues to stink, unfortunately. I think he had a lot of goodwill carry over this year that won't last.

 

This. Barring another world series appearance, there will be a lot of blame assigning and Heyward would be the easiest target.

[philosophizer75]

Hypothetically, if the Cubs have another slow first half and Heyward is doing what he's done the last two seasons, I could see several stories that come out around the ASB like:

 

HEYWARD'S 3 YEAR HIBERNATION, IS HE HOLDING THESE YOUNG CUBS BACK?

 

CUBS PAID FOR SOLID GLOVE, BAT FROM J-HEY AND GOT ONLY A GLOVE AND A POOL NOODLE.

 

I hope he turns horsefeathers around though. Would be nice to have a good version of him for a season or 5.

[Sammy Sofa]

Hypothetically, if the Cubs have another slow first half and Heyward is doing what he's done the last two seasons, I could see several stories that come out around the ASB like:

 

HEYWARD'S 3 YEAR HIBERNATION, IS HE HOLDING THESE YOUNG CUBS BACK?

 

CUBS PAID FOR SOLID GLOVE, BAT FROM J-HEY AND GOT ONLY A GLOVE AND A POOL NOODLE.

 

[minnesotacubsfan]

How likely is it that he could become JHey 2015 next year? Whats a good precedent for that type of turn around?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

How likely is it that he could become JHey 2015 next year? Whats a good precedent for that type of turn around?

 

Starlin.

 

[philosophizer75]

I'm gonna go with putting that level of turnaround on par with Kyle Schwarber's 2016.

 

Except instead of a miraculously swift recovery of the Schwarmachine's knee, an equally miraculously high spike of Heyward's launch angle.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Also, if you want to put a positive spin on Heyward, he did get better as the season progressed, unlike last year.

 

2016 1st half: .300 wOBA, 83 wRC+

2016 2nd half: .255 wOBA, 55 wRC+

 

2017 1st half: .303 wOBA, 83 wRC+

2017 2nd half: .318 wOBA, 92 wRC+

 

Heyward has always been much better in the 2nd half than the first half even when he was doing well, so 2016 sticks out as an outlier even more. So the optimistic interpretation is that Heyward can continue building on his 2017 and set a baseline closer to his 2017 2nd half in the first half of 2018 and be more like a 3 win OF when you consider his defense(~.325-.330 wOBA). The pessimistic interpretation is that his first half is basically the new norm and anchors how much he can improve, but thankfully if his 2nd half got a bit better(past successful years had huge 1st half/2nd half splits), he can get above average without going completely nuts at the plate.

 

That's just looking at trends without any thought to the cause behind it, but if you want reason to dream on Heyward not being a drain on the lineup, you can find it.

[nobull]

I hate when fans get mad at the player and not the team when a contract doesn't work out.

He booed because he or she stinks. They are well compensated.

[PackLandVA]

Why be pissed AT Heyward for not producing? Is he a bad teammate? Does he have a bad attitude? Does he not give his best effort? Is he a jerk in his “personal” life or to the fan base? Did he threaten sitting out if he didn’t get paid a massive contract? Is he faking some injury that prevents him from playing? Does he insist on playing a certain position or batting in a certain spot in the order? Does he have any “sports prima dona” attributes rampant with stars?

 

The answer to all of the above questions is a definitive NO!

 

I’m not thrilled with how things have panned out th first two years. But he wanted to be on the Cubs and took less money than he could’ve gotten to do so. And I think he’s a great example of a professional for the young players.

 

Hate the situation but don’t hate the player.

[Geech]

Why be pissed AT Heyward for not producing? Is he a bad teammate? Does he have a bad attitude? Does he not give his best effort? Is he a jerk in his “personal” life or to the fan base? Did he threaten sitting out if he didn’t get paid a massive contract? Is he faking some injury that prevents him from playing? Does he insist on playing a certain position or batting in a certain spot in the order? Does he have any “sports prima dona” attributes rampant with stars?

 

The answer to all of the above questions is a definitive NO!

 

I’m not thrilled with how things have panned out th first two years. But he wanted to be on the Cubs and took less money than he could’ve gotten to do so. And I think he’s a great example of a professional for the young players.

 

Hate the situation but don’t hate the player.

 

That's cool, but I want him to not be on the team anymore.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Geech

[Sammy Sofa]

Why be pissed AT Heyward for not producing? Is he a bad teammate? Does he have a bad attitude? Does he not give his best effort? Is he a jerk in his “personal” life or to the fan base? Did he threaten sitting out if he didn’t get paid a massive contract? Is he faking some injury that prevents him from playing? Does he insist on playing a certain position or batting in a certain spot in the order? Does he have any “sports prima dona” attributes rampant with stars?

 

The answer to all of the above questions is a definitive NO!

 

I’m not thrilled with how things have panned out th first two years. But he wanted to be on the Cubs and took less money than he could’ve gotten to do so. And I think he’s a great example of a professional for the young players.

 

Hate the situation but don’t hate the player.

 

That's cool, but I want to not be on the team anymore.

 

Wish granted, I guess?

[CubinNY]

I didn’t want them to sign him in the first place. But I’m not going to blame him for taking money that way as offered to him. That’s on Theo.

 

Somebody needs to show him videos of John Olerud.

[Sammy Sofa]

I didn’t want them to sign him in the first place.

 

[spoil][/spoil]

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I have a hard time blaming Theo for signing a 26-year old position player that had already accumulated nearly 28 WAR to a big deal. It just didn't work. What's the point of pinning blame?

[CubinNY]

I didn’t want them to sign him in the first place.

 

[spoil][/spoil]

Nope.

[imb]

Among several pro-Heyward signing posts made by CubinNY is this gem

 

Please Cubs, sign him soon.

 

Like I said the first million pages of that thread are filled with posts from CubinNY drooling over potentially signing Heyward, but some are better than others.

 

*Dicaro tweets about Cubs being frontrunners*

 

Shawiiiiing.

 

Edit:

 

Another tweet ruling Cards out

 

OHMG