Trading Heyward

[jersey cubs fan]

 

If the Cubs find a way to trade Heyward it'll take some sort of money eating. But what kind of team could actually want him? I'm thinking you'd need a team getting next to nothing out of RF already, and in need of defensive help. A team with a ballpark that might need extra help from a strong RF could also help, and the Rockies are the first name that come to mind. The Royals, Tigers, Mets, Braves and Phillies also struggle in this department.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=RF

 

Team

Bat

BsR

Fld

WAR

Angels 3.9 0.8 5.9 2.7

Astros 13.5 1.5 2.6 3.4

Athletics -3.1 -0.5 -3.7 0.9

Blue Jays -0.7 -1.0 -2.1 1.3

Braves -8.4 -1.0 -2.1 0.4

Brewers 6.1 0.6 -4.7 1.7

Cardinals -1.3 -1.0 2.1 1.5

Cubs -2.2 0.9 11.3 2.5

Diamondbacks 25.7 -1.6 -9.2 3.0

Dodgers 19.8 -1.3 6.5 4.0

Giants -1.2 0.0 0.5 1.4

Indians 7.6 -0.5 -2.1 2.2

Mariners 4.4 -0.7 1.3 2.2

Marlins 34.7 -0.4 3.5 5.3

Mets -11.9 -1.3 -2.4 0.0

Nationals 34.8 0.4 2.4 5.2

Orioles 1.9 -0.7 -6.3 1.2

Padres -8.9 -0.7 -1.9 0.4

Phillies -9.3 -0.8 -1.0 0.4

Pirates -6.3 0.4 1.9 1.1

Rangers -0.8 -1.0 -0.6 1.4

Rays 1.9 1.4 2.7 2.3

Red Sox 20.2 4.6 15.4 5.7

Reds -5.0 0.3 -0.1 1.0

Rockies -2.9 -0.2 -0.1 1.2

Royals -1.3 -1.5 -5.6 0.8

Tigers 0.4 -1.4 -8.2 0.7

Twins -1.4 1.1 1.1 1.7

White Sox 3.7 -0.7 -2.7 1.7

Yankees 25.4 0.0 4.2 4.6

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Pretty sure he has a full no-trade clause through next season and then a partial one. So he will have a lot of say on this.

[Sammy Sofa]

Damn, dude is more fucked up than we thought.

[champaignchris]

As part of the package that brings Stanton to the Cubs?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The two teams that make the most sense to me are probably Seattle and San Francisco. Both have very little going on in their outfields. Both have a need to win sooner than later. Both have big home outfields, which would seem to be a fit for Heyward(more ground to cover defensively and maybe a few more singles drop in at the plate).

 

Seattle has DiPoto's trade-happy tendencies going for him, and he's made a deal that was slightly unconventional with Theo before. The downside is that Seattle's contracts are either contracts they really need to be competitive(Cano, Seager, probably Segura), Leake, which might work but opens up another rotation hole, or Felix, which opens up a rotation hole and ships off a franchise icon in return for a failed FA contract(a non-starter).

 

San Francisco pursued Heyward in free agency, and his defense + contact profile fits their preferences a bit. They don't have any albatrosses, but there could be something mutually beneficial if they don't think Melancon is going to bounce back.

 

Basically you need to thread the needle of some team being particularly bullish on fixing Heyward, having a contract they really want to dump, and being a little bit desperate. Maybe not 'Upton to the Tigers' desperate, but I don't think the Phillies qualify. Doesn't seem like a terribly likely outcome to me.

[davell]

Jed: Theo, should we try and trade Heyward?

 

Theo: No one wants him.

 

Jed: Well, it was worth exp!oring.

[The_Achiever]

This is my fever dream. It's too bad because he seems like a great guy and all, but that contract is an albatross.

[Liam Neeson]

Maybe trying to work out something with the Braves?

 

He might wave his NTC to go home.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

god dammit, I'm trying a Sean Rodriguez joke here, but I just can't quite make it land...

[toonsterwu]

I don't really think the Cubs will be able to move Heyward. It's a nice thought, but I just don't see the bad contracts out there that can match up well enough without the Cubs subsidizing a huge portion of the last 3 years.

 

As part of the package that brings Stanton to the Cubs?

 

Stanton is the only contract that is big enough and long enough, but the problem is, they are going to want young talent for Stanton, and not just a dump. Only way I could envisage a hypothetical that I think the Marlins would ponder is if we take on another bad contract or two of there's while also forking over some young-ish talent. Even then, I'm not real sure a hypothetical in my mind can actually translate out, as I'm not sure where the matches occur. Put it this way, Heyward and a few pieces for Stanton, and I'm not sure the Marlins necessarily bite unless it's such a good deal, at which point, it makes zero sense for the Cubs. If it's something like Heyward and Schwarber for Stanton and say, Wei-Yin Chen ... I gotta think the Marlins would consider that (as they could then turn around and perhaps flip former Cub Justin Bour for something, perhaps, and keep Ozuna/Yelich), but does that make sense for the Cubs? I tend to think not.

 

This leaves aside that I'm not sure the Cubs should want Stanton. It'd be the cherry on top, adding another run producing bat, but it's far from necessary, and that contract has to be able to fit with potential Cubs extensions in the coming years.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The Marlins need to drop payroll *today*, which is their primary motivation in dealing Stanton. Even with his contract, there won't be a shortage of suitors for Stanton, they won't have to make the choice of whether to take on Heyward or hold on to Stanton.

[davell]

god dammit, I'm trying a Sean Rodriguez joke here, but I just can't quite make it land...

 

It won't work. If Heyward's swing is this punchless, I'm sure he can't even knock the Gatorade cooler over at this point.

[Cubswin11]

If we trade Russell or Baez maybe something could work with the Jays for Tulo (he could be the SS/2B/UTL IF, he’s owed ~$50 mil through 2020) and Martin (we were in on him when he was a FA and could be the backup C, owed $20 mil this year then a FA). Maybe even something like Russell + Heyward and a minor leaguer or 3 gets us Stroman, Tulo and Martin (if we are going to trade Russell, which I don’t want to but if we do that could be something there.) Edited October 27, 2017 by Cubswin11

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If we trade Russell or Baez maybe something could work with the Jays for Tulo (he could be the SS/2B/UTL IF, he’s owed ~$50 mil through 2020) and Martin (we were in on him could be the backup C, owed $20 mil this year then a FA).

 

That's not bad, their corner OF situation for 2018(and beyond) is basically a bunch of spare parts too.

 

EDIT: For clarity, Martin has 2 years at 20 mil before FA, so the Jays probably need to kick in a few bucks in 2018/2019 in exchange for the Cubs taking a bit more in the later Heyward years. Also, from a luxury tax perspective, Martin is only 16.4 million each year.

[Cubswin11]

If we trade Russell or Baez maybe something could work with the Jays for Tulo (he could be the SS/2B/UTL IF, he’s owed ~$50 mil through 2020) and Martin (we were in on him could be the backup C, owed $20 mil this year then a FA).

 

That's not bad, their corner OF situation for 2018(and beyond) is basically a bunch of spare parts too.

 

EDIT: For clarity, Martin has 2 years at 20 mil before FA, so the Jays probably need to kick in a few bucks in 2018/2019 in exchange for the Cubs taking a bit more in the later Heyward years. Also, from a luxury tax perspective, Martin is only 16.4 million each year.

 

Hmm, got it maybe we could do something like Heyward + $20-30 mil starting in 2020 (if he doesn’t opt out) and Caritini for Martin? Or something like Heyward with the money mentioned above, LaStella, and Caritini for Tulo and Martin with the Jays throwing in a little money this year and next. 2 expensive bench/back up bats (let’s assume no Russell/Baez trade) but could work.

[imb]

i can't see any scenario where we don't just eat this contract until it's over, but that's why Theo gets paid the big bucks. Maybe he should just not be allowed to sign outfielders in FA (except Harper he's fine)

[Banedon]

i can't see any scenario where we don't just eat this contract until it's over, but that's why Theo gets paid the big bucks. Maybe he should just not be allowed to sign outfielders in FA (except Harper he's fine)

 

Plenty of "untradeable" contracts have been traded. It's just a question of how badly the FO wants to get rid of him, and how much it hurts to do so.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

At least with Heyward over all these other bad contracts of broken down and/or older players, he still provides elite production in nine of the 18 half innings of a game.

 

Plus he seems to check off all the other boxes. Hard worker. Good teammate. isn't going to be distraction or a clubhouse divider when he doesn't get to play, etc.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If we trade Russell or Baez maybe something could work with the Jays for Tulo (he could be the SS/2B/UTL IF, he’s owed ~$50 mil through 2020) and Martin (we were in on him could be the backup C, owed $20 mil this year then a FA).

 

That's not bad, their corner OF situation for 2018(and beyond) is basically a bunch of spare parts too.

 

EDIT: For clarity, Martin has 2 years at 20 mil before FA, so the Jays probably need to kick in a few bucks in 2018/2019 in exchange for the Cubs taking a bit more in the later Heyward years. Also, from a luxury tax perspective, Martin is only 16.4 million each year.

 

Hmm, got it maybe we could do something like Heyward + $20-30 mil starting in 2020 (if he doesn’t opt out) and Caritini for Martin? Or something like Heyward with the money mentioned above, LaStella, and Caritini for Tulo and Martin with the Jays throwing in a little money this year and next. 2 expensive bench/back up bats (let’s assume no Russell/Baez trade) but could work.

 

Maybe something like Heyward, Caratini, and 45M from 2021-23 for Tulo, Martin, and 20M from 2018-2019? That basically says Caratini + the odds of Heyward's bounceback compared to Tulo/Martin's bounceback are worth 20 million(using luxury tax calcs), which seems about right.

[davell]

I could be mistaken, but I think any money changing hands in a deal has to be paid off completely within 18 months.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I could be mistaken, but I think any money changing hands in a deal has to be paid off completely within 18 months.

 

That can't be right. Maybe from a 'we're sending dollars independent of any contracts owed' sense, but in this case it can easily take the form of paying part of Heyward and Martin's contracts.

[davell]

I could be mistaken, but I think any money changing hands in a deal has to be paid off completely within 18 months.

 

That can't be right. Maybe from a 'we're sending dollars independent of any contracts owed' sense, but in this case it can easily take the form of paying part of Heyward and Martin's contracts.

 

I'm trying to find it. For some reason, I was thinking it was from Passan. Maybe talking about why A-Rod was so untradeable.

 

What I'm not sure of, is whether it can be APPLIED in different ways, but it has to be ACTUALLY paid off within that period.

 

It was an odd rule, to say the least. If I find it, I'll post it obviously.

[biittner77]

Why would Heyward accept a trade to Toronto? I thought nobody wants to play there.

 

If the Cubs get above average production from catcher, SS and 2nd, can't they just absorb the hit of Heyward's offense being a bonus?

[Post Count Padder]

The Giants have a desperate need for outfield help. How insane is something like Heyward, Happ, Zagunis, Grimm and $$$ for Melancon and Shark?

 

Or what about seeing how much the Red Sox don't want to pay Porcello or Price anymore?

[Cubswin11]

I could be mistaken, but I think any money changing hands in a deal has to be paid off completely within 18 months.

 

That can't be right. Maybe from a 'we're sending dollars independent of any contracts owed' sense, but in this case it can easily take the form of paying part of Heyward and Martin's contracts.

 

I'm trying to find it. For some reason, I was thinking it was from Passan. Maybe talking about why A-Rod was so untradeable.

 

What I'm not sure of, is whether it can be APPLIED in different ways, but it has to be ACTUALLY paid off within that period.

 

It was an odd rule, to say the least. If I find it, I'll post it obviously.

In Laws chat yesterday he was talking about a Stanton trade and mentioned any money the Marlins would throw in would kick in down the road after he doesn’t exercise his opt out. So according to him it would be allowed.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Cubswin11