Cubs add Chapman for Torres, et al. imb wishes we paid more

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Even if Chapman wasn't a turd of a human being, I wouldn't be in favor of trading Torres for him.

 

This is extremely disappointing.

 

even with the rumored 4/60 extension?

 

Ignoring the morality of the situation for the moment...

 

I don't see the 4/60 extension as adding significant value to the deal. 4/60 is more or less market value. And while the certainty of having him under contract for that without duking it out for his services is worth something, I don't see it as adding enough to tip the scales.

 

If it was something like 3/40 with a vesting 4th year based on appearances, maybe that would add enough value to get me over the hump.

 

I get what you're saying, but I think it's worth a lot more than you do. Because when Chapman hits the market with no first round pick being attached, the chances of retaining him are far, far more difficult in my opinion.

[Thrilho]

Even if Chapman wasn't a turd of a human being, I wouldn't be in favor of trading Torres for him.

 

This is extremely disappointing.

 

even with the rumored 4/60 extension?

 

Ignoring the morality of the situation for the moment...

 

I don't see the 4/60 extension as adding significant value to the deal. 4/60 is more or less market value. And while the certainty of having him under contract for that without duking it out for his services is worth something, I don't see it as adding enough to tip the scales.

 

If it was something like 3/40 with a vesting 4th year based on appearances, maybe that would add enough value to get me over the hump.

Would you think it was good value if the Cubs planned to put him into the rotation at some point?

[David]

i wonder if we'd have the balls to try him as a starter next year (although he's really really good and valuable doing what he does already)

[Little Slide Rooter]

Chris Sale shredded an entire roster's worth of uniforms, without thinking twice about the 5-7 year old kids who were paid 2 cents an hour to make them, but that wouldn't stop me from cheering him on.

 

oh what the hell you [expletive] weirdo

 

Says the dude who gets up in arms over a post on a message board. But that's all I'm going to say about that.

[bhogg]

Sosa got into some DV mess in 2002 around the all star break. He missed a few games due to a hand injury --- rumors were he cut it on a bottle or something along those lines.

 

This was during the time that Sammy could have killed the pope and been cheered for it, so who knows. . . . . .I was in Atlanta and looking forward to seeing Sammy play but he was out with the phantom injury.

[cl smooth]

In this day and age where information on everything is at our very fingertips, I find it disconcerting that the whisper of an allegation is all it takes before people start weighing in on either side of the line. An individual's popularity and your own personal opinions and morals don't make someone guilty or innocent of an action/crime.

 

None of us were present when Aroldis Chapman went from being an athlete to being an athlete with baggage. How can you be so vehemently against him as a human based on nothing but what other people who you haven't met have said about him? Its terrifying to me that groupthink and mass public opinions (which can vary on a whim and have the capability of being vastly far from the truth) can affect or even decide what kind of reactions and recourse come down on a person.

 

he was suspended by MLB for 30 games. it's not like there were "whispers" of anything...he did SOMETHING. hell, even chapman himself said he should've used better judgment regarding his actions.

 

i understand ct's frustration. i prefer these types of players whose laundry is out in the open not play for the teams i root for.

[Thrilho]

He is only 28 and is averaging 100 mph on his fastball (according to FG). Could be tough to work him up to it innings wise but Chapman as a playoff starter could be pretty valuable.

[bcl412]

In this day and age where information on everything is at our very fingertips, I find it disconcerting that the whisper of an allegation is all it takes before people start weighing in on either side of the line. An individual's popularity and your own personal opinions and morals don't make someone guilty or innocent of an action/crime.

 

None of us were present when Aroldis Chapman went from being an athlete to being an athlete with baggage. How can you be so vehemently against him as a human based on nothing but what other people who you haven't met have said about him? Its terrifying to me that groupthink and mass public opinions (which can vary on a whim and have the capability of being vastly far from the truth) can affect or even decide what kind of reactions and recourse come down on a person.

 

Women have gotten pretty fucked over when it comes to stuff like this. If he didn't do anything (which would be surprising) then oh well, the guy is a millionaire who plays baseball. He'll be fine. If he did it he still is a millionaire who plays baseball. That's a huge reason why in today's day and age people take one side so vehemently and I personally don't really have a problem with it.

[David]

He is only 28 and is averaging 100 mph on his fastball (according to FG). Could be tough to work him up to it innings wise but Chapman as a playoff starter could be pretty valuable.

 

good lord he isn't going to be a playoff starter

[Old Style]

Anyone know if Chapman and the girlfriend are still together?

[17 Seconds]

i didn't really want him, and i still kind of don't want him, but from a baseball perspective, that looks pretty damn good to me (with the 4/60).

[rocket]

F it come on in Chapman

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Hasn't Chapman in the past said he's not interested in being a starter?

[Rob]

In this day and age where information on everything is at our very fingertips, I find it disconcerting that the whisper of an allegation is all it takes before people start weighing in on either side of the line. An individual's popularity and your own personal opinions and morals don't make someone guilty or innocent of an action/crime.

 

None of us were present when Aroldis Chapman went from being an athlete to being an athlete with baggage. How can you be so vehemently against him as a human based on nothing but what other people who you haven't met have said about him? Its terrifying to me that groupthink and mass public opinions (which can vary on a whim and have the capability of being vastly far from the truth) can affect or even decide what kind of reactions and recourse come down on a person.

 

For me, it's simple.

 

I spent months vehemently defending Milton Bradley on this board. I told everybody who would listen about how Jim Hendry was acting like a petulant child and his overreaction was what was killing Bradley's market value. I said we didn't have all the details -- that we couldn't in good conscience judge the man. I even implied that innocent until proven guilty meant that we should continue to support him until cold, hard evidence proved otherwise.

 

Then we saw the evidence.

 

I'm not making that mistake again. If there are rumors and whispers about a player being a shitty human being, then I'm not going to root for that player. And I don't want them on the Cubs. Sure, if I found myself on a jury for their trial I'd give them the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. But this isn't a courtroom, and it isn't a jury trial. We don't owe that to them as members of the public. We're just here to be entertained and root for our favorite players.

 

Chapman wont ever be one of mine.

[David]

the only thing that gives me hope that they won't exclusively name anyone "closer" if/when this goes down is that they would be acquiring (and paying up for) this guy and then, if we're really rolling again, just playing horsefeathers the closer with him for 2 months. like, i'd like to see him come in to a key spot in the seventh inning, if called for. i have hope that this manager and FO would actually do that, even though they didn't usually with rondon.

[SpongeWorthy]

If chapman dominates you'll all get over it just like people did w kane

[ScrubMD]

Allegations are proof for players not on the Cubs. For Cubs players, innocent until proven guilty.

[David]

Hasn't Chapman in the past said he's not interested in being a starter?

 

he originally was opposed to dusty keeping him a reliever, IIRC. i think he came to the big leagues with aspirations to start. he went into one of those years expected/expecting to start and dusty was like "nope, he's too good down there"

 

i can't remember what year that was but we all made fun of dusty for it.

Edited July 25, 2016 by David

[bcl412]

If chapman dominates you'll all get over it just like people did w kane

 

Eh, that Blackhawks team always felt tainted to me. I love the rest of the Cubs team but this is gonna feel weird.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

In this day and age where information on everything is at our very fingertips, I find it disconcerting that the whisper of an allegation is all it takes before people start weighing in on either side of the line. An individual's popularity and your own personal opinions and morals don't make someone guilty or innocent of an action/crime.

 

None of us were present when Aroldis Chapman went from being an athlete to being an athlete with baggage. How can you be so vehemently against him as a human based on nothing but what other people who you haven't met have said about him? Its terrifying to me that groupthink and mass public opinions (which can vary on a whim and have the capability of being vastly far from the truth) can affect or even decide what kind of reactions and recourse come down on a person.

 

Women have gotten pretty [expletive] over when it comes to stuff like this. If he didn't do anything (which would be surprising) then oh well, the guy is a millionaire who plays baseball. He'll be fine. If he did it he still is a millionaire who plays baseball. That's a huge reason why in today's day and age people take one side so vehemently and I personally don't really have a problem with it.

 

Am I reading correctly that you are saying even if a woman makes something up, it's not a big deal for the athlete because either way he's making millions?

[Brian]

I'm expecting Hank to swoop in and veto the trade anyways.

[PosterToBeNamedLater]

I'm not going to debate morals. He (with Wood, Stoop, Rondon, Montgomery) gives us a nice bullpen and that's good.

 

How much we have to give up for 4.5 years of him is the big question for me

 

whoa whoa whoa on including wood with that group

 

 

beep, beep, beep, back the truck up

[Irrelevant Dude]

I just can't get real excited about a reliever, especially when he costs our #1 prospect. Even if nobody else is available right now, Torres could be a huge component of a deal in the offseason to upgrade the rotation. I would feel better about that than a bullpen arm.

[SpongeWorthy]

If chapman dominates you'll all get over it just like people did w kane

 

Eh, that Blackhawks team always felt tainted to me. I love the rest of the Cubs team but this is gonna feel weird.

 

I'm pretty sure you follow the Hawks pretty closely so pardon me if I'm not buying how much moral heartburn they have caused you

[Thrilho]

Would you think it was good value if the Cubs planned to put him into the rotation at some point?

 

First person I've seen mention this but this COULD be more a thing than maybe credited early. He's got the pitches, the arm is healthy, the conditioning is elite...Everything's there, it is just a matter of taking the dive.

Yeah you've been on the idea for years. I always thought it was a good idea but a pie in the sky type thing. But it looks like they're on the verge of acquiring him and hopefully signing him for 4 years when there are big rotation questions a year away.

 

I think you've described him as like left handed Arrieta and that sounds about right. Huge, well conditioned guy. I'd think that if they wanted to get aggressive they could work him as a long man for part of next year and get him starting by Aug/Sep to get him around 120-130 innings including playoffs. Then maybe starting all year in 2018 or piggybacking part of the year or something. But getting him for the playoffs would be great, even if they had to supplement innings with some minor leaguers or Adam Warrens or something.