General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

[Andy]

I had already canceled mine in an unrelated reason. Glad I did.

[CubinNY]

Jeter out as CEO of Marlins. I hope he got his money back in cash and not Acela coupons. I wonder if this has to do with the lock-out negotiations.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

RE2IGN

[Bertz]

Jeter out as CEO of Marlins. I hope he got his money back in cash and not Acela coupons. I wonder if this has to do with the lock-out negotiations.

 

Sounds like when he came onboard he was promised the ability to buy into a bigger stake, and that has yet to happen. Though I'm sure the lockout is not helping matters.

[Andy]

Jeter out as CEO of Marlins. I hope he got his money back in cash and not Acela coupons. I wonder if this has to do with the lock-out negotiations.

 

Sounds like when he came onboard he was promised the ability to buy into a bigger stake, and that has yet to happen. Though I'm sure the lockout is not helping matters.

Somewhat related to the lockout negotiations, his $25M ownership stake is apparently worth close to $45M now, just 5 years later. It's too bad baseball isn't profitable or that would be pretty great ROI.

[Derwood]

Canceled. Thanks!

[apete6]

Jeter out as CEO of Marlins. I hope he got his money back in cash and not Acela coupons. I wonder if this has to do with the lock-out negotiations.

 

Sounds like when he came onboard he was promised the ability to buy into a bigger stake, and that has yet to happen. Though I'm sure the lockout is not helping matters.

 

I can't find the Tweet right now, but sounds like he thought he would have a bigger MLB payroll budget and (surprise, surprise), that is not the case, so he walked away. Good for him.

[UMFan83]

 

I hope this isn't like the NHL on ESPN+ where there is no local broadcast and you have to have AppleTV+ to watch the game, but I'm guessing it is, thus the exclusive wording.

 

Edit: Yep, Marquee won't carry the games. You'll have to own Apple TV+ to watch. I hate what streaming is doing to media consumption.

 

[Bertz]

 

I hope this isn't like the NHL on ESPN+ where there is no local broadcast and you have to have AppleTV+ to watch the game, but I'm guessing it is, thus the exclusive wording.

 

Edit: Yep, Marquee won't carry the games. You'll have to own Apple TV+ to watch. I hate what streaming is doing to media consumption.

 

 

It's annoying for fans like us, but this is a good business decision IMO. The unique reach afforded by Apple TV is really important at a time where MLB is getting more and more niche. Frankly they need to copy the NFL's playbook and start throwing some games on Nickelodeon too.

[Andy]

We'll see how many Cubs games even end up on that service. MLB did the YouTube-exclusive thing too, and no Cubs games were ever played on it.

 

I'm sure it'll happen at some point but I'd be surprised if it's close to a regular occurrence for the biggest-market clubs.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

I hope this isn't like the NHL on ESPN+ where there is no local broadcast and you have to have AppleTV+ to watch the game, but I'm guessing it is, thus the exclusive wording.

 

Edit: Yep, Marquee won't carry the games. You'll have to own Apple TV+ to watch. I hate what streaming is doing to media consumption.

 

 

It's annoying for fans like us, but this is a good business decision IMO. The unique reach afforded by Apple TV is really important at a time where MLB is getting more and more niche. Frankly they need to copy the NFL's playbook and start throwing some games on Nickelodeon too.

 

Apple TV+ has unique reach? I'd say it's the opposite, there's no way any material number of Apple TV+ subscribers aren't paying for a number of other broadcast/streaming outlets. Exclusivity and fragmentation are really bad plays for MLB, which is trying to sell you a nightly entertainment product that is still popular enough that it doesn't have to resort to fragmentation to increase revenues. It's unfortunately not surprising though, because the league is run like the only thing that matters is the next quarterly report.

[UMFan83]

We'll see how many Cubs games even end up on that service. MLB did the YouTube-exclusive thing too, and no Cubs games were ever played on it.

 

I'm sure it'll happen at some point but I'd be surprised if it's close to a regular occurrence for the biggest-market clubs.

 

I'm just basing it off of the NHL and ESPN+ which might not be fair because I think they do multiple game nights with exclusive games, but I think there's been like 4-5 Blackhawks games that have been exclusive to ESPN+ which on one hand sucks as its Foley's last year and on the other hand is welcomed because the organization is a dumpster fire.

[Irrelevant Dude]

Edit: Yep, Marquee won't carry the games. You'll have to own Apple TV+ to watch. I hate what streaming is doing to media consumption.

Soon we will long for the days of having to flip between WGN, WCIU, CSN, and CSN+ to try to find which one is broadcasting the game. I don't want any part of Apple's TV service.

[Bertz]

Apple TV+ has unique reach? I'd say it's the opposite, there's no way any material number of Apple TV+ subscribers aren't paying for a number of other broadcast/streaming outlets. Exclusivity and fragmentation are really bad plays for MLB, which is trying to sell you a nightly entertainment product that is still popular enough that it doesn't have to resort to fragmentation to increase revenues. It's unfortunately not surprising though, because the league is run like the only thing that matters is the next quarterly report.

 

You'd be surprised. I know Apple TV is no Amazon Prime, but one of the brands I work for saw big gains from doing Thursday night Football on Amazon even though they already do some NFL on traditional TV on Sundays. I can't tell you how the Prime deal has helped the league itself, but I have a hard time imagining the NFL is unhappy considering they went from simulcasting with NFLN to giving Prime exclusive rights.

 

Fragmentation is happening regardless. Travis Sawchik had a great series on the viability of the RSN model a month back:

 

 

From part 1 of that series

 

Cable peaked at 100.5 million subscribers in 2013. That count fell to 84 million by the end of 2019 and to 74 million last year. The Wall Street research firm MoffettNathanson estimates cable erosion will continue at a rate of about 5% a year, and that there are another 26 million non-sports-loving households that are near-term threats to cut the cord.

 

The future, probably not too long from now, is that MLB.tv is going to drop blackouts and most big fans are going to get their baseball that way. But you still need ways to reach less hardcore fans and especially new fans, and a great way to do that is to put some morsels of content on Amazon/Hulu/Apple/etc. The average household has 2-3 streaming services (as of a year or two back, it might be more like 3-4 now), so you want to diversify to make sure as many people have an opportunity to see as possible.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

You'd be surprised. I know Apple TV is no Amazon Prime, but one of the brands I work for saw big gains from doing Thursday night Football on Amazon even though they already do some NFL on traditional TV on Sundays. I can't tell you how the Prime deal has helped the league itself, but I have a hard time imagining the NFL is unhappy considering they went from simulcasting with NFLN to giving Prime exclusive rights.

 

That's answering a different question though. Brands seeing better results on a different platform for the same sport isn't the same as the platform reaching new fans or fans that couldn't be reached elsewhere.

 

The future, probably not too long from now, is that MLB.tv is going to drop blackouts and most big fans are going to get their baseball that way. But you still need ways to reach less hardcore fans and especially new fans, and a great way to do that is to put some morsels of content on Amazon/Hulu/Apple/etc. The average household has 2-3 streaming services (as of a year or two back, it might be more like 3-4 now), so you want to diversify to make sure as many people have an opportunity to see as possible.

 

I agree that MLB.tv dropping blackouts is the envisioned future, but exclusive fragmentation isn't the way to reach and create new fans. Baseball engagement is about the ritual and habit, you want folks tuning in 100+ days out of the year instead of < 20 like the NFL. You create uncertainty on where and how simply/cheaply you can maintain that habit, you're damaging your existing fanbase and making it harder to on ramp new fans to being steady viewers. That's not to say that you can't ever have new and different broadcasts, but MLB is in the fortunate position where they don't have to chase the marginal dollar with exclusivity in order to get that benefit, the difference in revenue is a marketing expense in the long term, especially when it comes to long term retention. But it's clear at this point that MLB is going to chase every short term revenue optimization they are presented without any coherent understanding or long term plan for making the game compelling and accessible.

[Bertz]

That's answering a different question though. Brands seeing better results on a different platform for the same sport isn't the same as the platform reaching new fans or fans that couldn't be reached elsewhere.

 

It's not, but it probably nets out that way. If a brand can see incremental gains from advertising on the same content across different platforms, I imagine the content is seeing similar lift. Not certain, but likely.

 

I agree that MLB.tv dropping blackouts is the envisioned future, but exclusive fragmentation isn't the way to reach and create new fans. Baseball engagement is about the ritual and habit, you want folks tuning in 100+ days out of the year instead of < 20 like the NFL. You create uncertainty on where and how simply/cheaply you can maintain that habit, you're damaging your existing fanbase and making it harder to on ramp new fans to being steady viewers. That's not to say that you can't ever have new and different broadcasts, but MLB is in the fortunate position where they don't have to chase the marginal dollar with exclusivity in order to get that benefit, the difference in revenue is a marketing expense in the long term, especially when it comes to long term retention. But it's clear at this point that MLB is going to chase every short term revenue optimization they are presented without any coherent understanding or long term plan for making the game compelling and accessible.

 

It comes down to the cost/benefit of inconveniencing your hardcore fans vs. trying to attract new fans and grow your audience. You don't want to go to far, and knowing MLB they probably will, but I don't think they have yet.

 

There's 2430 MLB games a year right now (or at least there will be 4 out of every 5 years moving forward). ESPN has exclusivity on Sunday nights each week, Fox Sports has their two (I think?) on Saturdays, and Apple now two on Friday. That's 130 games, still leaving 2300, or 153 per team, with the local broadcasters. Let's say MLB makes another two Apple-like moves with Amazon and Peacock. That still leaves a 90/10 split between local broadcasts and national exclusives.

 

That's going to annoy folks like us, but I doubt enough to lose us (and odds are we already own ~2/5 of the other platforms, so the inconvenience on some games would be very minor). I think that's a worthwhile cost to get games in front of people who are not yet willing to throw down $150 on MLB.tv and who don't have RSN access.

 

If Apple was willing to have a non-exclusive deal like the old ESPN weekday broadcasts, and MLB upcharged for that exclusivity, that's a problem. But if Apple demanded exclusivity as part of any deal, and I think the way these sorts of things have gone lately that seems likelu, I think MLB made the right call. And as mentioned above I'd say probably ought to make another comparable move or two.

[soccer10k]

Edit: Yep, Marquee won't carry the games. You'll have to own Apple TV+ to watch. I hate what streaming is doing to media consumption.

Soon we will long for the days of having to flip between WGN, WCIU, CSN, and CSN+ to try to find which one is broadcasting the game. I don't want any part of Apple's TV service.

 

Yep. They won’t be getting any of my money. Just like I don’t sign up for Peacock to watch EPL games and I no longer sign up for Paramount+ to watch the Champions League. I realize I’m the one missing out on things I used to watch more of but so be it. I’m fine with it. If there’s a game I really want to watch, I’ll find other means of doing so.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It comes down to the cost/benefit of inconveniencing your hardcore fans vs. trying to attract new fans and grow your audience. You don't want to go to far, and knowing MLB they probably will, but I don't think they have yet.

 

But it's inconveniencing sub-hardcore fans just as much if not more. In the aggregate, the diehards will seek out every last game and pay to ensure they have it. In our hypothetical the new fan who is intrigued by watching an Apple TV game and wants more, can't get more from Apple TV and now has to navigate a labyrinth to actually be the steady viewer that you want them to be. The barrier's higher(they're less familiar definitionally) and the risk is higher(they care less definitionally). I do admit this isn't black and white, but one of my hobby horses with how sports are scheduled and broadcast is that leagues drastically undervalue predictability and consistency in building a product for the long term.

[CubinNY]

It's dumb. It may benefit Apple+ as they may get a handful of new subscribers. But the vast majority of people who are baseball fans are a specific team fan first and a baseball fan last. They are not subscribing to Apple+ just for baseball. On the other side, MLB has further marginalized its product by placing a handful of games exclusively on an obscure content provider. It's short-term profit over long-term gain. Just horsefeathering stupid, stupid, stupid as usual.

 

Instead of making the game more accessible, they are making it less accessible. Are there any strategic planners working for MLB or is just counting the money?

Edited March 9, 2022 by CubinNY

[CubinNY]

I’m just talking out of my ass but I genuinely don’t think the owners care about *growing* the game so much as controlling it. Live sports is still live sports so they’ll never have to stress too much about media rights but now there’s also gambling to bring in big revenues (hence the Cubs and Yankees among others looking to set up sportsbooks or w/e they’re called)

 

Being able to say Actually the actual on field baseball Is Not Popular is a card they want in play the vast majority of the time, particularly if they’re confident about media rights, gambling, and even international growth (IIRC MLB is heavily invested in the growing KBO, they’ll get their gd draft probably)

That's a fair point. But at the same time, they are pricing people out of attending games as well.

[Derwood]

I’m just talking out of my ass but I genuinely don’t think the owners care about *growing* the game so much as controlling it. Live sports is still live sports so they’ll never have to stress too much about media rights but now there’s also gambling to bring in big revenues (hence the Cubs and Yankees among others looking to set up sportsbooks or w/e they’re called)

 

Being able to say Actually the actual on field baseball Is Not Popular is a card they want in play the vast majority of the time, particularly if they’re confident about media rights, gambling, and even international growth (IIRC MLB is heavily invested in the growing KBO, they’ll get their gd draft probably)

That's a fair point. But at the same time, they are pricing people out of attending games as well.

 

Which dumb fans blame on the "greedy players", so the higher prices are a PR win for the owners

[OleMissCub]

Pretty sure this is something you’ll only see once in your lifetime above the little league level. Scoring from first on a pickoff without an error being committed.

 

[UMFan83]

Pretty soon the entire season is going to be entirely on one of 36 paid streaming platforms.

 

https://twitter.com/jareddiamond/status/1502399288869109765

[CubinNY]

https://twitter.com/parkermolloy/status/1503395032094625794?s=21

[Cubswin11]