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David

By David,
in General Baseball Talk

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David GOAT

David

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[tweet]
[/tweet]

 

damn it's kind of amazing how spot on consistent that "a cycle is about as rare as a no-hitter" thing seems to be.

Regular Show ACL Cubs

Regular Show

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[tweet]

[/tweet]

 

I'm glad Rob Manfred and MLB are finally embracing this technology. The camera system Manfred is talking about is called "Hawk-Eye" and is used in professional tennis and cricket. It's suppose to be superior to the TrackMan system currently in place:

 

https://www.hawkeyeinnovations.com/products/ball-tracking

 

I think it's more important they properly setup the parameters of the strike zone than the technology itself. The strikes being called in the AFL by robot umps was different from anything pitchers/hitter have seen before and caused a lot of anger and confusion. I said a while back that the earliest I could see this technology being implemented in MLB was 2027, but it's coming way sooner. People inside the game think it could happen as soon as 2022 now. This will be an awesome change and make the game so much better.

Banedon GOAT

Banedon

Community Moderator
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Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred indicated earlier Wednesday that MLB would use the system to call balls and strikes during spring training games, but the source later clarified to ESPN that the system would only be tested and that plate umpires would still call balls and strikes.
OleMissCub Cooperstown

OleMissCub

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We've had a bit of a run on what I would call "duh, of course he's first ballot" type guys the past 7 or 8 years.

Jeter

Rivera

Chipper

Pudge

Griffey

Pedro

Big Unit

Big Hurt

Maddux

Glavine

Piazza

 

However, we're about to enter a dead period for a while on those type guys. I'm looking at some of the bigger names that will be eligible in the next few years. Only going to list guys with a Hall of Fame Monitor score over 70.

 

2021 - Aramis Ramirez, Buehrle

2022 - A-Rod, Ortiz, Rollins, Teixeira, AJ Alphabet, Ryan Howard, Joe Nathan, Prince Fielder, Papelbon

2023 - Beltran, K-Rod

2024 - Beltre, Holliday, Utley, Mauer, Adrian Gonzalez, Colon, Jose Bautista, Jose Reyes, David Wright

 

I only see 2 first ballot guys: Ortiz and Beltre. A-Rod eventually gets in and I could see the Vets Committee down the line getting Mauer in. JAWS has him listed as the 8th best catcher ever. Beltran and the sign stealing stuff has really hurt him, but I could see him getting in at some point.

 

I'm fascinated to see how the sportswriters parse voting for Ortiz and not for A-Rod since they both tested positive for PED's.

 

It's sad looking at some of those names and recognizing how injuries and age effect potential HOF careers. There were certain times in each of these guys careers when I thought they were on a HOF trajectory but I doubt a single one of them gets in: Wright, Howard, Reyes, Utley, and Ramirez.

UMFan83 GOAT

UMFan83

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I'm fascinated to see how the sportswriters parse voting for Ortiz and not for A-Rod since they both tested positive for PED's.

 

Wasn't Ortiz only listed on the 2003 "anonymous" test that has been picked apart and legitimacy questioned?

 

ARod was suspended twice and admitted to taking PEDs so he was a blatant violator.

 

But yeah if Ortiz avoids getting dinged for only being on that 2003 report and strongly denying it, why isn't Sammy afforded the same courtesy? Sosa's career WAR is slightly higher, played a position his entire career and all his HOF markers are higher than Ortiz's. And if Ortiz really was juicing in 2003, that coincides with his career taking off. Who knows when Sosa might have started taking PEDs but he was an All Star and finished in the top 20 of MVP voting 3 times before the 1998 season.

 

I guess the biggest differences are 1) the corked bat establishes a pattern of cheating for Sosa, 2) By being part of the peak steroid era and one of the people involved in the 98 HR race Sosa will always be looked at as one of the main faces of that era and 3) Ortiz is widely considered a good guy that sportswriters love.

Andy GOAT

Andy

Old-Timey Member
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That last part is probably the most important. Sammy got a deserved reputation for being a surly prick over the years, and also cut himself out of baseball once he was retired (though who knows how welcome he would've been anyway). While it's unfair, that's definitely a big factor in him not being accorded forgiveness.
jersey cubs fan GOAT

jersey cubs fan

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I'm fascinated to see how the sportswriters parse voting for Ortiz and not for A-Rod since they both tested positive for PED's.

 

Wasn't Ortiz only listed on the 2003 "anonymous" test that has been picked apart and legitimacy questioned?

 

ARod was suspended twice and admitted to taking PEDs so he was a blatant violator.

 

But yeah if Ortiz avoids getting dinged for only being on that 2003 report and strongly denying it, why isn't Sammy afforded the same courtesy? Sosa's career WAR is slightly higher, played a position his entire career and all his HOF markers are higher than Ortiz's. And if Ortiz really was juicing in 2003, that coincides with his career taking off. Who knows when Sosa might have started taking PEDs but he was an All Star and finished in the top 20 of MVP voting 3 times before the 1998 season.

 

I guess the biggest differences are 1) the corked bat establishes a pattern of cheating for Sosa, 2) By being part of the peak steroid era and one of the people involved in the 98 HR race Sosa will always be looked at as one of the main faces of that era and 3) Ortiz is widely considered a good guy that sportswriters love.

David Ortiz is widely considered to be a huge [expletive].

OleMissCub Cooperstown

OleMissCub

Old-Timey Member
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Not that the HOF monitor means anything, but I just noticed that Todd Helton has a higher score (175) than many other guys who have made or are being considered for the HOF from his era: Ortiz (171), Biggio (169), Beltre (163), Smoltz (162), Hoffman (159), Sheffield (158), Thome (156), Bagwell (150), Walker (148), Edgar Martinez (132), Pettitte (128), Sabathia (128), Halladay (127), Beltran (126), Kent (123), Mussina (121), Vizquel (120), Wagner (107), Andruw Jones (109), Rolen (99), Abreu (95), Mauer (92)
David GOAT

David

Old-Timey Member
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I'm fascinated to see how the sportswriters parse voting for Ortiz and not for A-Rod since they both tested positive for PED's.

 

Wasn't Ortiz only listed on the 2003 "anonymous" test that has been picked apart and legitimacy questioned?

 

ARod was suspended twice and admitted to taking PEDs so he was a blatant violator.

 

But yeah if Ortiz avoids getting dinged for only being on that 2003 report and strongly denying it, why isn't Sammy afforded the same courtesy? Sosa's career WAR is slightly higher, played a position his entire career and all his HOF markers are higher than Ortiz's. And if Ortiz really was juicing in 2003, that coincides with his career taking off. Who knows when Sosa might have started taking PEDs but he was an All Star and finished in the top 20 of MVP voting 3 times before the 1998 season.

 

I guess the biggest differences are 1) the corked bat establishes a pattern of cheating for Sosa, 2) By being part of the peak steroid era and one of the people involved in the 98 HR race Sosa will always be looked at as one of the main faces of that era and 3) Ortiz is widely considered a good guy that sportswriters love.

 

also uh ortiz is known as like the most clutch postseason hitter of his era and one of the best of all time and has a seemingly endless highlight reel of huge playoff (and regular season) hits.

 

whether clutch is real or not, that matters.

UMFan83 GOAT

UMFan83

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

I'm fascinated to see how the sportswriters parse voting for Ortiz and not for A-Rod since they both tested positive for PED's.

 

Wasn't Ortiz only listed on the 2003 "anonymous" test that has been picked apart and legitimacy questioned?

 

ARod was suspended twice and admitted to taking PEDs so he was a blatant violator.

 

But yeah if Ortiz avoids getting dinged for only being on that 2003 report and strongly denying it, why isn't Sammy afforded the same courtesy? Sosa's career WAR is slightly higher, played a position his entire career and all his HOF markers are higher than Ortiz's. And if Ortiz really was juicing in 2003, that coincides with his career taking off. Who knows when Sosa might have started taking PEDs but he was an All Star and finished in the top 20 of MVP voting 3 times before the 1998 season.

 

I guess the biggest differences are 1) the corked bat establishes a pattern of cheating for Sosa, 2) By being part of the peak steroid era and one of the people involved in the 98 HR race Sosa will always be looked at as one of the main faces of that era and 3) Ortiz is widely considered a good guy that sportswriters love.

 

also uh ortiz is known as like the most clutch postseason hitter of his era and one of the best of all time and has a seemingly endless highlight reel of huge playoff (and regular season) hits.

 

whether clutch is real or not, that matters.

 

Yeah I thought about the after the fact. Sammy had a few big hits, but certainly nowhere near the amount Ortiz did

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