Cubs Sign Zobrist - 4/$56M

[Aaron_Kennelly]

are we forgetting that we would have given starlin castro away for free last august? nice run starlin, see ya

 

Yep, we added a guy who is old and might fall off of a cliff. But, he is only making like $4 million more than Starlin over the course of the next four years. And Zobrist has pretty much always been a really good player. Granted, with him being old, this might not be the case. But, Starlin was so unpredictable the last few years. Hell, he was almost completely worthless, as you mention, in August last year. Get out of that roller coaster and replace him with a more stable guy, who happens to fit our philosophy much better.

 

Now, everyone takes walks, dongs, plays multiple positions. Starlin just wasn't a good fit. And, we hardly had to waste much money to -- hopefully - upgrade.

[rawaction]

It would be extremely odd (and honestly, somewhat of a letdown from a personal standpoint) to go from Castro, Soler and/or Baez to Zobrist, Heyward and/or random CF. I understand, still have Rizzo, Bryant, Russell and Schwarber....but jettisoning young, cheap, under long-term control talent to pay older guys for a potential shorter term (if Heyward has an opt out, this is possible), doesn't seem like something a great front office should do. And I kinda feel that they won't do that (trade Castro, then trade Soler and sign Heyward) so I'm not a fan of this potential move for if nothing else but that reason.

 

Well, the fact that we would still have Rizzo, Bryant, Russell and Schwarber is kinda big in this scenario. If we trade Castro and Soler, then they are simply trading the two worst guys of our "core," depending on if you consider Javy a part of the core. They aren't trading away the cheap, young stars. In fact, Starlin isn't really any of those things. His salary isn't really cheap anymore. It's not prohibitive or expensive really. But, he isn't pre-arb, like those other guys. And he is what he is now. He's just a guy that happens to be kinda young and under contract for awhile.

 

Trading a guy like Soler might bite us. But, he's like our fourth or fifth best pre-arb guy, anyway. And he hasn't done anything to prove that he is anywhere near the level of the guys we are actually keeping.

 

That's not how it works though. Zobrist isn't that much better than good Castro. He's not that much better than bad Castro and Baez (who would presumably take over for bad Castro at 2B), that you pay him 19Mil more over the next 4 years with 10 years of age on his side. And there's no law that you can only have 4 good pre-arb players. And if I'm trading a good pre-arb player, I want a similarly good pre-arb player at a bigger position of need.

 

It's swapping out Starlin for Zobrist for $15 million more over the next four years + whatever we get back in a Starlin trade. I think it is brilliant.

 

Depends on what they get for Castro. Also, gotta figure Baez into this somehow. Unless he really takes to CF, then the collateral damage of Zobrist at 2B is not only Castro being traded, but likely Baez being traded. Zobrist has too big of a contract and leash to put Baez in there everyday if he's struggling. Zobrist is already your super-utility guy. Going to be hard to get Javy ABs in the lineup as constructed, and that's before the Cubs have a CF.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

It would be extremely odd (and honestly, somewhat of a letdown from a personal standpoint) to go from Castro, Soler and/or Baez to Zobrist, Heyward and/or random CF. I understand, still have Rizzo, Bryant, Russell and Schwarber....but jettisoning young, cheap, under long-term control talent to pay older guys for a potential shorter term (if Heyward has an opt out, this is possible), doesn't seem like something a great front office should do. And I kinda feel that they won't do that (trade Castro, then trade Soler and sign Heyward) so I'm not a fan of this potential move for if nothing else but that reason.

 

Well, the fact that we would still have Rizzo, Bryant, Russell and Schwarber is kinda big in this scenario. If we trade Castro and Soler, then they are simply trading the two worst guys of our "core," depending on if you consider Javy a part of the core. They aren't trading away the cheap, young stars. In fact, Starlin isn't really any of those things. His salary isn't really cheap anymore. It's not prohibitive or expensive really. But, he isn't pre-arb, like those other guys. And he is what he is now. He's just a guy that happens to be kinda young and under contract for awhile.

 

Trading a guy like Soler might bite us. But, he's like our fourth or fifth best pre-arb guy, anyway. And he hasn't done anything to prove that he is anywhere near the level of the guys we are actually keeping.

 

That's not how it works though. Zobrist isn't that much better than good Castro. He's not that much better than bad Castro and Baez (who would presumably take over for bad Castro at 2B), that you pay him 19Mil more over the next 4 years with 10 years of age on his side. And there's no law that you can only have 4 good pre-arb players. And if I'm trading a good pre-arb player, I want a similarly good pre-arb player at a bigger position of need.

 

It's swapping out Starlin for Zobrist for $15 million more over the next four years + whatever we get back in a Starlin trade. I think it is brilliant.

 

Depends on what they get for Castro. Also, gotta figure Baez into this somehow. Unless he really takes to CF, then the collateral damage of Zobrist at 2B is not only Castro being traded, but likely Baez being traded. Zobrist has too big of a contract and leash to put Baez in there everyday if he's struggling. Zobrist is already your super-utility guy. Going to be hard to get Javy ABs in the lineup as constructed, and that's before the Cubs have a CF.

 

Javy is no more likely to be traded now than he was yesterday. We simply swapped Zobrist for Castro. In fact, Javy is probably more likely to stick around, because Zobrist can play the outfield, as well. Maddon has much more opportunity to find Javy at bats, by moving Zobrist around, now.

[Sammy Sofa]

It would be extremely odd (and honestly, somewhat of a letdown from a personal standpoint) to go from Castro, Soler and/or Baez to Zobrist, Heyward and/or random CF. I understand, still have Rizzo, Bryant, Russell and Schwarber....but jettisoning young, cheap, under long-term control talent to pay older guys for a potential shorter term (if Heyward has an opt out, this is possible), doesn't seem like something a great front office should do. And I kinda feel that they won't do that (trade Castro, then trade Soler and sign Heyward) so I'm not a fan of this potential move for if nothing else but that reason.

 

Well, the fact that we would still have Rizzo, Bryant, Russell and Schwarber is kinda big in this scenario. If we trade Castro and Soler, then they are simply trading the two worst guys of our "core," depending on if you consider Javy a part of the core. They aren't trading away the cheap, young stars. In fact, Starlin isn't really any of those things. His salary isn't really cheap anymore. It's not prohibitive or expensive really. But, he isn't pre-arb, like those other guys. And he is what he is now. He's just a guy that happens to be kinda young and under contract for awhile.

 

Trading a guy like Soler might bite us. But, he's like our fourth or fifth best pre-arb guy, anyway. And he hasn't done anything to prove that he is anywhere near the level of the guys we are actually keeping.

 

That's not how it works though. Zobrist isn't that much better than good Castro. He's not that much better than bad Castro and Baez (who would presumably take over for bad Castro at 2B), that you pay him 19Mil more over the next 4 years with 10 years of age on his side. And there's no law that you can only have 4 good pre-arb players. And if I'm trading a good pre-arb player, I want a similarly good pre-arb player at a bigger position of need.

 

It's swapping out Starlin for Zobrist for $15 million more over the next four years + whatever we get back in a Starlin trade. I think it is brilliant.

 

Depends on what they get for Castro. Also, gotta figure Baez into this somehow. Unless he really takes to CF, then the collateral damage of Zobrist at 2B is not only Castro being traded, but likely Baez being traded. Zobrist has too big of a contract and leash to put Baez in there everyday if he's struggling. Zobrist is already your super-utility guy. Going to be hard to get Javy ABs in the lineup as constructed, and that's before the Cubs have a CF.

 

Baez can get plenty of time as the super utility guy.

[squally1313]

It would be extremely odd (and honestly, somewhat of a letdown from a personal standpoint) to go from Castro, Soler and/or Baez to Zobrist, Heyward and/or random CF. I understand, still have Rizzo, Bryant, Russell and Schwarber....but jettisoning young, cheap, under long-term control talent to pay older guys for a potential shorter term (if Heyward has an opt out, this is possible), doesn't seem like something a great front office should do. And I kinda feel that they won't do that (trade Castro, then trade Soler and sign Heyward) so I'm not a fan of this potential move for if nothing else but that reason.

 

Well, the fact that we would still have Rizzo, Bryant, Russell and Schwarber is kinda big in this scenario. If we trade Castro and Soler, then they are simply trading the two worst guys of our "core," depending on if you consider Javy a part of the core. They aren't trading away the cheap, young stars. In fact, Starlin isn't really any of those things. His salary isn't really cheap anymore. It's not prohibitive or expensive really. But, he isn't pre-arb, like those other guys. And he is what he is now. He's just a guy that happens to be kinda young and under contract for awhile.

 

Trading a guy like Soler might bite us. But, he's like our fourth or fifth best pre-arb guy, anyway. And he hasn't done anything to prove that he is anywhere near the level of the guys we are actually keeping.

 

That's not how it works though. Zobrist isn't that much better than good Castro. He's not that much better than bad Castro and Baez (who would presumably take over for bad Castro at 2B), that you pay him 19Mil more over the next 4 years with 10 years of age on his side. And there's no law that you can only have 4 good pre-arb players. And if I'm trading a good pre-arb player, I want a similarly good pre-arb player at a bigger position of need.

 

It's swapping out Starlin for Zobrist for $15 million more over the next four years + whatever we get back in a Starlin trade. I think it is brilliant.

 

Depends on what they get for Castro. Also, gotta figure Baez into this somehow. Unless he really takes to CF, then the collateral damage of Zobrist at 2B is not only Castro being traded, but likely Baez being traded. Zobrist has too big of a contract and leash to put Baez in there everyday if he's struggling. Zobrist is already your super-utility guy. Going to be hard to get Javy ABs in the lineup as constructed, and that's before the Cubs have a CF.

 

I don't see how this spells the end of Baez. Zobrist in his late 30s isn't going to be playing every day as it is. He can spot Schwarber against tough lefties (or if they keep up the catching experiment), Soler in big outfields, Bryant if they want him in the outfield for those reasons. Someone broke down a realistic PA split of the players we had about a month ago that got everyone plenty of ABs, and I don't think anything has changed since then, besides that Zobrist is capable of filling in more spots than Castro was able to.

 

And that's before this Baez to CF thing.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Oh God, this post is understandably going to be blasted but I just have to say it.

 

Will everybody stop bitching about Zobrist's age? He's not that [expletive] old. We are making it sound like the kid just turned 40. He's 34.

 

OK. Go!

[sneakypower]

4/56 strikes me as way too damn much for Zobrist. Maybe I'm overly attached to Castro but given their ages are we really looking at THAT huge a difference between their next 4 years?

let there never be a doubt this FO hates guys who chase outside the zone & vice versa

[abuck1220]

so assuming he won't be playing 2b at age 38, he's gonna be a 38 yr old non power hitting defensive liability at a corner OF spot in year 4?

 

hopefully they're so rich by that point it won't matter and they can just dump him.

[KingCubsFan]

so assuming he won't be playing 2b at age 38, he's gonna be a 38 yr old non power hitting defensive liability at a corner OF spot in year 4?

Welcome to free agency.

[rawaction]

 

I don't see how this spells the end of Baez. Zobrist in his late 30s isn't going to be playing every day as it is. He can spot Schwarber against tough lefties (or if they keep up the catching experiment), Soler in big outfields, Bryant if they want him in the outfield for those reasons. Someone broke down a realistic PA split of the players we had about a month ago that got everyone plenty of ABs, and I don't think anything has changed since then, besides that Zobrist is capable of filling in more spots than Castro was able to.

 

And that's before this Baez to CF thing.

 

Eh. He missed 36 games this year, and was on the DL for a month exactly. Javy is almost in the same boat as he was an hour ago. Fighting for playing time for those same reasons. But the biggest factor in him getting PT was if Castro was one of the worst hitters in baseball again next year. Zobrist isn't going to be bad enough to sit.

 

And I realize this sounds stupid, because I'm basically complaining about a player being too good. But my gripe is more based on the fact the Cubs paid more money to get 10 years older and possibly only marginally better (depending on Castro and Baez's performance), when they have other needs.

[Cubs Fan Dan]

so assuming he won't be playing 2b at age 38, he's gonna be a 38 yr old non power hitting defensive liability at a corner OF spot in year 4?

Welcome to free agency.

 

Does it even matter? The TV deal will be here by then and they will write that contract off like its nothing if he is bad. Besides, one World Series and it ends up being a great move.

[Guest]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/ben-zobrist-to-the-cubs-on-four-year-deal/?utm_source=hootsuite

[jersey cubs fan]

Oh God, this post is understandably going to be blasted but I just have to say it.

 

Will everybody stop bitching about Zobrist's age? He's not that [expletive] old. We are making it sound like the kid just turned 40. He's 34.

 

OK. Go!

He's not an accountant, he's a professional athlete. And he's old.

[ctcf]

 

damn

[TruffleShuffle]

Castro to NYY per wittenmeyer. For Andrew Warren.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well I know who's going in my new sig

 

gordon wittenmyer?

[weis21]

Castro to NYY per wittenmeyer. For Andrew Warren.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well I know who's going in my new sig

 

gordon wittenmyer?

i like sigs. please don't force my hand and make me turn them off

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Oh God, this post is understandably going to be blasted but I just have to say it.

 

Will everybody stop bitching about Zobrist's age? He's not that [expletive] old. We are making it sound like the kid just turned 40. He's 34.

 

OK. Go!

He's not an accountant, he's a professional athlete. And he's old.

 

He will just have to be productive like Tori Hunter then.

[Fro]

And I realize this sounds stupid, because I'm basically complaining about a player being too good. But my gripe is more based on the fact the Cubs paid more money to get 10 years older and possibly only marginally better (depending on Castro and Baez's performance), when they have other needs.

 

Compare Baez's K rate to Zobrist and Castro's walk rate/OBP to Zobrist

[Guest]

 

damn

 

if you count minors in tenure (but only guys on the big league roster) is it javy? too lazy to check.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

 

damn

 

if you count minors in tenure (but only guys on the big league roster) is it javy? too lazy to check.

 

Who signed first, him or Vogelbach?

[Guest]

another good hitter to an already stacked lineup.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

But my gripe is more based on the fact the Cubs paid more money to get 10 years older and possibly only marginally better (depending on Castro and Baez's performance), when they have other needs.

 

You're forgetting that we also addressed one of the most glaring needs -- rotation depth -- with this swap also.

[davell]

 

damn

 

if you count minors in tenure (but only guys on the big league roster) is it javy? too lazy to check.

 

Who signed first, him or Vogelbach?

 

Surely we've got a Jonathan Mota still running around. How about Jeffry Antigua?

[Aaron_Kennelly]

another good hitter to an already stacked lineup.

 

We are going to take so many [expletive] walks next year. I can't wait. Just get me Heyward, too. I want to see if we can go the whole season without an opposing starting pitcher seeing the sixth inning.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Duke Silver

[Tracer Bullet]

so assuming he won't be playing 2b at age 38, he's gonna be a 38 yr old non power hitting defensive liability at a corner OF spot in year 4?

 

hopefully they're so rich by that point it won't matter and they can just dump him.

 

If he's a $12m 38 year old bench player but we get 2 great years out of him, it's worth it.