What will we spend our money on this offseason?

[A New Era]

Below, an exhaustive list of reasons to sign Jonny Gomes this offseason:

 

Oh my God. You didn't have anything below. That was so funny. :clapping:

 

Fair enough. Here's a couple reasons to sign Gomes

 

1. Every other Cubs outfielder retires from baseball

2. someone's been looking at a list of all time Cubs' players and realized that there aren't that many players whose names start with G.

 

I don't get why the Cubs would go after a veteran OF who doesn't look to be appreciably better than the guys we already have.

 

I don't need reasons, I just thought that was funny.

[Guest]

I'm so hoping the Ricketts open up the piggy bank and sign Lester.

 

Lester

Arretia

Hendricks

 

Is a very good front end of a rotation. The Cubs could be really freaking good next year.

[A New Era]

No doubt, My dream scenerio is Lester this year and Shark next year. I just really want Shark back.

 

Lester

Arietta

Shark

Hendricks

Turner/Edwards/Johnson/whatever

[SouthSideRyan]

Sign Lester and Scherzer and literally nothing else and we should be favorites.

[Guest]

Sign Lester and Scherzer and literally nothing else and we should be favorites.

To win history.

[chuckywang]

Didn't Hammels love Chicago? Why not resign him?

[jersey cubs fan]

Didn't Hammels love Chicago? Why not resign him?

 

Cole Hamels or Jason Hammel?

 

 

The Cubs should be looking for better pitchers than Jason Hammel this offseason.

[Clem Fandango]

I'd rather roll the dice with Turner/Straily/Dubront and hope they get some Bosio magic vs. signing Hammel again. They could be just as effective and cost next to nothing compared to Hammel.

 

They need someone like Lester, they don't really need someone like Hammel.

[Gilby]

I'd rather roll the dice with Turner/Straily/Dubront and hope they get some Bosio magic vs. signing Hammel again. They could be just as effective and cost next to nothing compared to Hammel.

 

They need someone like Lester, they don't really need someone like Hammel.

 

If they aren't picking up Wada's option, I think we need two more pitchers. Hendricks and Arrieta are locks to remain, but after that it gets iffy. Turner could very well be a white Jaxon, Straily has an option left IIRC, and Doubront..meh. Hammel is likely better than those three. Something like Lester, Arrieta, Hendricks, and Hammel as the top four with Doubront, Turner, Straily, and Wood fighting it out for the last spot sounds good to me. Straily would probably go to Iowa as depth, and the other three can go to the bullpen or to a different team if not in the rotation.

[Guest]

I'd rather roll the dice with Turner/Straily/Dubront and hope they get some Bosio magic vs. signing Hammel again. They could be just as effective and cost next to nothing compared to Hammel.

 

They need someone like Lester, they don't really need someone like Hammel.

 

If they aren't picking up Wada's option, I think we need two more pitchers. Hendricks and Arrieta are locks to remain, but after that it gets iffy. Turner could very well be a white Jaxon, Straily has an option left IIRC, and Doubront..meh. Hammel is likely better than those three. Something like Lester, Arrieta, Hendricks, and Hammel as the top four with Doubront, Turner, Straily, and Wood fighting it out for the last spot sounds good to me. Straily would probably go to Iowa as depth, and the other three can go to the bullpen or to a different team if not in the rotation.

 

The problem with that is it's a really inefficient use of the depth we've acquired this summer. You'll likely get very little in return for Doubront/Turner/Wood in late March, so the end result is you only have 6-7 options anyway, and that's if you can carve out a bullpen spot for one of these guys(far from a guarantee). And all that even assumes Jackson is done as a Cub, which isn't exactly set in stone.

 

I'm not necessarily against adding a 2nd starting pitcher, but he should probably stack up pretty favorably against "2nd best of Wood/Doubront/Turner/Straily" for it to be worth giving up on the end of that list. I'm not sure Hammel qualifies.

[SouthSideRyan]

Personally, I want him to stack up pretty favorably against the best of our losers. My ultimate preference is 2 of Scherzer, Lester, Maeda, and Shields. I have a soft spot for Liriano and McCarthy, but even that's iffy to me.

[WrigleyField 22]

Yea I think two is necessary. Someone will start the year on the DL at the very least. One of our back end guys will suck and I'll also put money on a BP arm starting on the DL opening another spot.

 

I mean, the money isn't going to do anything otherwise.

 

 

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[Guest]

Yea I think two is necessary. Someone will start the year on the DL at the very least. One of our back end guys will suck and I'll also put money on a BP arm starting on the DL opening another spot.

 

I mean, the money isn't going to do anything otherwise.

 

 

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Unless someone is hurt long term, someone opening on the DL doesn't really change things, it just makes the decision in mid to late April instead of late March, which isn't any better. Not sure why you'd put money on a BP arm going on the DL, but even then it doesn't necessarily open up a spot. Rondon, Strop, Ramirez, Grimm, Vizcaino, Rivero, Wright, Rosscup, Jokisch, Schlitter, Parker, maybe an external acquisition, there's not an obvious opening. And even then, again, making the decision in mid-April is not better.

 

As far as the money goes, they have lots to spend, but not so much that they'll just be sitting on piles of money if they don't spend big on 2 starters. Getting a top end guy would likely top 20 million. You could very easily spend 20 million on position players too, to say nothing of trade acquisitions. Even beyond that though, it's not a race to spend money, it's about making the team as best you can. Especially in the current environment, there's a very good chance that 2 of Wood/Doubront/Turner/Straily are better options than someone picked up like a Hammel or Feldman. Not only in the team control/salary sense(which naturally matters), but in the straight performance sense. I mean, look at Hammel's performance in recent years and compare it to Wood, or Doubront. You aren't guaranteeing any more consistency with that caliber of guy.

[UMFan83]

Theo tells NY Times they have a "70 percent chance" on signing an unnamed free agent. Let the speculation begin. #Lester

[WrigleyField 22]

Someone else will end up on the DL by mid April too. We're talking about [expletive] pitchers.

 

Is it a failure to not get two SP? No but there's no reason not to try, certainly not Dubront/Turner/Strailey/Wood.

 

We have Arrieta and a bunch of other stuff.

 

We don't need to spend big on the second guy, but they should look at that next tier and absolutely bring in another arm.

 

 

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[Guest]

Someone else will end up on the DL by mid April too. We're talking about [expletive] pitchers.

 

Is it a failure to not get two SP? No but there's no reason not to try, certainly not Dubront/Turner/Strailey/Wood.

 

We have Arrieta and a bunch of other stuff.

 

We don't need to spend big on the second guy, but they should look at that next tier and absolutely bring in another arm.

 

 

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I agree that depth is important, my overarching point here is that adding 2 pitchers doesn't necessarily add depth if it requires you to cut loose one of the current guys because they're out of options. One of the reasons we even have Doubront is that he wasn't happy with his role, he's probably not going to be agreeable to getting jerked around here. He's just one of several, but it's an example that shows you can't count on injuries or other roster shenanigans bailing out poor design/roster construction.

 

I also think you're underselling the quality of that group you've set there(Doubront/Wood/Straily/Turner). With the exception of Turner, I bet you'd be surprised by how favorably they stack up to the options that would make up this year's Hammel/Feldman. Wood has a 7+ WAR in < 4 seasons, Doubront has 5+ WAR in just over 400 IP, Straily was a league average guy in his only full season, etc. They aren't reasons not to get someone of Lester/Scherzer caliber, but they're very real alternatives to playing at the other end of the SP pool.

[WrigleyField 22]

I don't like Hendricks either which may be part of it. He's with the back end group for me and has options. With injury and performance attrition I don't see an overloading problem with a top end pitcher and another mid to back end option.

[WrigleyField 22]

I think most of our bottom end RP have options too.

[Guest]

I don't like Hendricks either which may be part of it. He's with the back end group for me and has options. With injury and performance attrition I don't see an overloading problem with a top end pitcher and another mid to back end option.

 

I don't disagree conceptually(I prefer to think of Hendricks as a '4 at best' when constructing my rotation), what I'm trying to articulate here is that with so many guys in that group with no options, there isn't an opportunity to wait on injury/performance attrition. So you sign a 2nd starter(let's call it Hammel for simplicity), and then you have this group heading into spring training: FA#1, Arrieta, Hendricks, Hammel, Turner, Straily, Doubront, Wood. So now you have until the end of ST to narrow that to 5, and Straily/Hendricks are the only ones that can go to Iowa. Hendricks appears to have a stranglehold on a job, so even if we get 'lucky' and Straily isn't that great, now you've got 4 guys for 2 spots and none of them have options. Maybe someone gets hurt, maybe a bullpen spot opens up, but even then you're likely only postponing the same decision a couple weeks. You have to get rid of a couple guys, likely for little/nothing, and now your depth is down to your starting 5 + Straily, maybe one more if you got 'lucky' and someone is hurt longer term. And the only new information that we have to go on is Spring Training, which will be helpful but not irredeemable proof either.

 

Bottom line, adding a 2nd SP isn't bad, but if he isn't really good, the impact is muted quite a bit because you're going to be forced to cut bait with at least one, probably two guys who have a similar profile.

 

EDIT:

I think most of our bottom end RP have options too.

 

Right off the bat, our current RP stalwarts cut out a lot of the available spots(Rondon, Ramirez, Strop, Wright, Grimm). There's an argument to be had to keep someone like Doubront instead of somebody like Rivero, but it's less optimal.

[Clem Fandango]

I don't like Hendricks either which may be part of it.

 

http://i.imgur.com/bDfYoZU.gif

[WrigleyField 22]

Well assuring a spot to Hendricks is one of my main issues then. If we're taking Hammels for simplicity I'll cut Wood and or Turner for him.

 

 

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[WrigleyField 22]

I don't like Hendricks either which may be part of it. He's with the back end group for me and has options. With injury and performance attrition I don't see an overloading problem with a top end pitcher and another mid to back end option.

 

I don't disagree conceptually(I prefer to think of Hendricks as a '4 at best' when constructing my rotation), what I'm trying to articulate here is that with so many guys in that group with no options, there isn't an opportunity to wait on injury/performance attrition. So you sign a 2nd starter(let's call it Hammel for simplicity), and then you have this group heading into spring training: FA#1, Arrieta, Hendricks, Hammel, Turner, Straily, Doubront, Wood. So now you have until the end of ST to narrow that to 5, and Straily/Hendricks are the only ones that can go to Iowa. Hendricks appears to have a stranglehold on a job, so even if we get 'lucky' and Straily isn't that great, now you've got 4 guys for 2 spots and none of them have options. Maybe someone gets hurt, maybe a bullpen spot opens up, but even then you're likely only postponing the same decision a couple weeks. You have to get rid of a couple guys, likely for little/nothing, and now your depth is down to your starting 5 + Straily, maybe one more if you got 'lucky' and someone is hurt longer term. And the only new information that we have to go on is Spring Training, which will be helpful but not irredeemable proof either.

 

Bottom line, adding a 2nd SP isn't bad, but if he isn't really good, the impact is muted quite a bit because you're going to be forced to cut bait with at least one, probably two guys who have a similar profile.

 

EDIT:

I think most of our bottom end RP have options too.

 

Right off the bat, our current RP stalwarts cut out a lot of the available spots(Rondon, Ramirez, Strop, Wright, Grimm).

Realistically that's two more spots and looking at other relievers, Schlitter, Parker, Rosscup, Vizcaino, I can't think of a significant one without options. So there seems to be the required flexibility that pitcher loading would require.

 

 

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[WrigleyField 22]

I don't like Hendricks either which may be part of it.

 

http://i.imgur.com/bDfYoZU.gif

Let's set his FIP at 4, I'll take the over on it. So back end for me.

 

 

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[mul21]

I tend to side with TT here, especially since there's a non-zero chance that CJ or Pierce are ready to contribute to the big club and be emergency options at worst some time in June/July if they stay healthy.

[SouthSideRyan]

I tend to side with TT here, especially since there's a non-zero chance that CJ or Pierce are ready to contribute to the big club and be emergency options at worst some time in June/July if they stay healthy.

 

I can't imagine a scenario where CJ contributes as a starter next season.