Hammel/Samardzija Traded to A's for Russell/McKinney/Straily

[davell]

We won 97 games with a dempster, zambrano, lilly, marquis, gallagher/harden rotation. We don't need king Felix or kershaw, nawmean?

 

[expletive] it, I'll go full meatball here. How'd we do in the playoffs again?

 

Honestly, I get what you're saying, but I've always had it in my head that pitching wins in the playoffs. Cold weather, elite stuff, keeps bats at bay.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

We won 97 games with a dempster, zambrano, lilly, marquis, gallagher/harden rotation. We don't need king Felix or kershaw, nawmean?

 

[expletive] it, I'll go full meatball here. How'd we do in the playoffs again?

 

Honestly, I get what you're saying, but I've always had it in my head that pitching wins in the playoffs. Cold weather, elite stuff, keeps bats at bay.

 

Time to go to bed.

[gscool89]

MLB.com updated prospect rankings for the Cubs:

http://i.imgur.com/A3ZtsHK.png

 

Not including the recent draft class.

[davell]

We won 97 games with a dempster, zambrano, lilly, marquis, gallagher/harden rotation. We don't need king Felix or kershaw, nawmean?

 

[expletive] it, I'll go full meatball here. How'd we do in the playoffs again?

 

Honestly, I get what you're saying, but I've always had it in my head that pitching wins in the playoffs. Cold weather, elite stuff, keeps bats at bay.

 

Time to go to bed.

 

May be. But seriously, can someone give me something that backs up why elite pitching doesn't win in the playoffs?

[Deeg]

It's a pipe dream to think you're going to get Scherzer for $23 million a year. That's likely to be around Lester's number, but do you really think the Cubs would pay it? And should they?

 

I guess especially after this trade it would be a minority view, but I think it's more important than ever now that the Cubs get an impact OF bat to give the kids some protection for the next couple of seasons. That may be overpaying on a FA, but you would also have the option of packaging one of their three young SS along with other prospects. Castro has rehabilitated his trade value, especially if he manages to avoid cratering in the second half - he alone could net you a pretty decent bat in return. Add Almora or Soler and you're talking about a legit impact player - and if the Cubs really wanted to shoot for the moon and try for Stanton, they could put together a package that would certainly catch Florida's attention.

 

Rather than trade elite prospects for pitchers or overpaying for Masterson, I'd make a strong run at Maeda, try and re-sign Hammel - or the next Hammel - and put Neil Ramirez back in the rotation.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Deeg

[burnt out cubbie fan]

How does McKinney rank in terms of the Cubs top prospects? Top 10?

[Guest]

I forget, does Oakland's cal league team play in one of the crazy offensive parks?

is there a non-crazy offensive park in the cal league?

 

Super late here but Stockton (and most of the northern division Cal League teams) are far more pitcher...umm..."friendly."

[Deeg]

How does McKinney rank in terms of the Cubs top prospects? Top 10?

 

Possibly right at the tail-end, depending on how highly you value the arms. I'd say somewhere between 9-12.

[Guest]

 

Took this picture of Russell and Bryant on the left side of the infield at the AFL.

[Andy]

We won 97 games with a dempster, zambrano, lilly, marquis, gallagher/harden rotation. We don't need king Felix or kershaw, nawmean?

 

[expletive] it, I'll go full meatball here. How'd we do in the playoffs again?

 

Honestly, I get what you're saying, but I've always had it in my head that pitching wins in the playoffs. Cold weather, elite stuff, keeps bats at bay.

 

Time to go to bed.

 

May be. But seriously, can someone give me something that backs up why elite pitching doesn't win in the playoffs?

Elite anything wins in the playoffs. Doesn't have to be pitching. No one on last year's Red Sox staff fits the definition of 'elite' (save Koji I suppose)

[Hairyducked Idiot]

May be. But seriously, can someone give me something that backs up why elite pitching doesn't win in the playoffs?

 

You want us to prove a negative?

 

Elite starting pitching can win in the playoffs. So can elite offenses. So can elite bullpens.

 

There are no magic formulas.

[Guest]

How does McKinney rank in terms of the Cubs top prospects? Top 10?

I posted this one:

 

• Kris Bryant - pure stud
  
• Javier Baez - love the progress lately. still the highest upside
  
• Addison Russell - doesn't have the power of the top two
  
• Arismendy Alcantara - can't believe I'm ranking a 22 yr old ss/cf with an .898 and 20 SB/3 CS this low
  
• Jorge Soler - love the guy. get healthy hamstrings
  
• Kyle Schwarber - dude just rakes
  
• Billy McKinney - I can't see anything Almora does better
  
• Albert Almora - He has to find additional ways to provide value to rank higher
  
• Gleyber Torres - he'd be top 3-4 in most systems already
  
• Eloy Jimenez - he'd be top 3-4 in most systems already

[Guest]

Got home and went to milb.com to check the boxes, and saw the news. Wow. Addison Russell is better player than I thought we had a chance to get in a return for Shark. I think this clearly benefits both teams, but I love the return. I'll love the trade more if Hammell is re-signed.

 

And good for the A's, Beane really seems to be going for it.

 

Pretty much my reaction. I was leaning towards not wanting Samardzija traded because I didn't expect to get an elite return. Crazy that the A's went all in and got both Hammel and Samardzija, and 27 days before the deadline.

 

I have no interest in re-signing Hammel; they can try to get the next Maholm/Feldman/Hammel next offseason.

[XZero771679666304]

I really wonder if the FO is going to try and spin some of this into Giancarlo Stanton.

[treebird]

my initial reaction to this is pretty positive, but i'll wait to hear what tom morello thinks before i make up my mind

[Guest]

I want big league ready pieces if we're dumping Samardzija, but Russell seems like a good start. Does he project elsewhere outside of SS? I imagine he could play second.

 

Supposed to be a 3b long-term, I think.

 

By the way, disagree completely on this. Definitely think he's a SS all the way, and could be better defensively than Castro.

 

(I realize this was super early in the talks so you might have posted something different later.)

[Clem Fandango]

North posted this about Straily, for those interested to know more...

 

Next up, Straily. Oh Straily, why did you lose velocity?! Straily going into 2014 was one of the pitchers I thought to break out. He's got PHENOMENAL secondary offerings. The velocity drop was concerning, but some trends I've seen might explain why. He's been able to keep a stable release point for a long time, but this year, it suddenly has been sporadic.

 

http://s8.postimg.org/anp9135z9/Screen_Shot_2014_07_04_at_11_47_33_PM.png

http://s22.postimg.org/3l9kv9ubl/Screen_Shot_2014_07_04_at_11_50_03_PM.png

 

He's 25 years old. This much of a velocity drop, so suddenly, just doesn't fit. Its most definitely a mechanical thing. BUT, here's what I love about Straily. He's got a fantastic balance to his repertoire. He throws a four seam, 2 seam/sinker, slider, change, and curve. His four seam always got above average whiffs, and his slider is awesome. It gets 21% whiffs, a number that is significantly above the marker for an average pitcher. He's with some great company (e.g., Tanaka, Greinke, Kluber, Darvish, Wilson) as having similar whiff %s. Additionally, his change is awesome, getting above average whiffs too (i.e., 17%). That's three + pitches. His curve and sinker are borderline average. He'll need to improve are the grounders on his fastballs. But look, three plus pitches on whiffs is impressive. Work with his mechanics, get the velocity where it should be, and yes.

[RammyFanny]

We won 97 games with a dempster, zambrano, lilly, marquis, gallagher/harden rotation. We don't need king Felix or kershaw, nawmean?

 

[expletive] it, I'll go full meatball here. How'd we do in the playoffs again?

 

Honestly, I get what you're saying, but I've always had it in my head that pitching wins in the playoffs. Cold weather, elite stuff, keeps bats at bay.

 

Time to go to bed.

 

May be. But seriously, can someone give me something that backs up why elite pitching doesn't win in the playoffs?

It could and does sometimes. But I feel the cold can affect a pitcher just as negatively as a hitter. And what are we talking about, 2 starts in a series? There's a lot of randomness that can occur in 2 starts.

[DiamondMind]

how am I going to tell my boss the reason Im so unproductive tomorrow is because of addison russel and bushmills

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I want big league ready pieces if we're dumping Samardzija, but Russell seems like a good start. Does he project elsewhere outside of SS? I imagine he could play second.

 

Supposed to be a 3b long-term, I think.

 

By the way, disagree completely on this. Definitely think he's a SS all the way, and could be better defensively than Castro.

 

(I realize this was super early in the talks so you might have posted something different later.)

 

Yeah, I was remembering old reports.

[davell]

I get what you guys are saying. It makes sense. But Kyle, with all the cheap offense we've got coming, very few spots we can even spend at, why not spend on the best we can with pitching?

[Guest]

I want big league ready pieces if we're dumping Samardzija, but Russell seems like a good start. Does he project elsewhere outside of SS? I imagine he could play second.

 

Supposed to be a 3b long-term, I think.

 

By the way, disagree completely on this. Definitely think he's a SS all the way, and could be better defensively than Castro.

 

(I realize this was super early in the talks so you might have posted something different later.)

 

Yeah, I was remembering old reports.

 

Ahh, my bad. This is what happens when I play catch up on the whole thread.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I get what you guys are saying. It makes sense. But Kyle, with all the cheap offense we've got coming, very few spots we can even spend at, why not spend on the best we can with pitching?

 

Because if you spend on the best you can pitching in 2014 they are probably going to be old and hurt and bad in 2016 and taking up half your payroll space. And you don't need to, because the second tier of pitching will do just fine.

[Deeg]

I get what you guys are saying. It makes sense. But Kyle, with all the cheap offense we've got coming, very few spots we can even spend at, why not spend on the best we can with pitching?

 

Well for one thing, having a gaudy list of hitting prospects is great, but not all of them are going to turn into good major league players. And among the ones that do, most aren't going to be real plus players for at least a year or two, maybe more. I don't think it's a good idea to pin all your hopes on these guys panning out, not to mention giving them no veteran protection. Stockpiling is smart - it gives you options when the can't-miss prospects miss. But some of them will miss.

 

Then there's the fact that 30+ FA pitchers are the worst value in the sport, and if ownership is going to spend like a small-market team you can't indiscriminately throw $23 million a year at guys who'll likely be albatrosses by the end of the contract. If you're the Yankees or the Dodgers, those contracts are just the toll that has to be paid. If you're a team that's going to try and win like the A's, you have to try and address pitching in other ways.

[Guest]

I really wonder if the FO is going to try and spin some of this into Giancarlo Stanton.

 

That was my first thought as well. Some of our prospects are definitely getting traded in the offseason.