2013-2014 Chicago Bulls Thread

[Derwood]

The Bulls really are in NBA hell right now. Not good enough to win a title, not bad enough to get a difference maker in the draft

[UMFan83]

The Bulls really are in NBA hell right now. Not good enough to win a title, not bad enough to get a difference maker in the draft

 

What event happened over the last day or two that provoked you to make that comment? Just curious because thats been pretty obvious for awhile now.

[WrigleyField 22]

I'm sorry the Bulls aren't in NBA hell. That term is stupid and meaningless. True NBA Hell teams are teams like the Knicks, Nets, Pistons, Cavs, among a few others.

[Derwood]

I'm sorry the Bulls aren't in NBA hell. That term is stupid and meaningless. True NBA Hell teams are teams like the Knicks, Nets, Pistons, Cavs, among a few others.

 

Some of those teams are in self-imposed hell, as they've made poor draft/personnel decisions.

[Ryne Ween]

The bulls are likely gonna win a playoff series with this years team and add Mirotic and D Rose next year. I would say I like where we are more than any team in the lottery. People who think otherwise must be very very new to the NBA or perhaps just idiots. NBA hell doesn't exist. Where the spurs, pacers, heat, and mavs all in nba hell in different points over the last 5-6 years?

[Andy]

If only the Bulls were picking in the top 10 so they could get difference-makers like Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Thomas Robinson, Jan Vesely, Anthony Bennett, Austin Rivers, Derrick Williams, Enes Kanter, Bismack Biyombo, Brandon Knight, Jimmer Fredette, Cody Zeller and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope.

 

I know this draft is supposed to be better than most, but based on the last few years, you're about 50/50 to get a halfway decent player with a top 10 pick and far less than that to get a 'difference-maker'.

[Ryne Ween]

Some of the guys you mentioned aren't even busts. Nobody has eer built through the draft. Sometimes a team can get a superstar like Durant Lebron Shaq or Duncan. I'd like to see an analysis done on the total PER of each draft position from 1 to 30 over the last 15 years and see how well ou correlates.

[Derwood]

Nobody has ever built through the draft? Huh?

[Ryne Ween]

Teams sometimes get a superstar in the draft. Thats not really rebuilding. Thats 80% luck 20% losing.

 

Which of the current good teams would you say got good through the draft? Conversely, which of the terrible teams continue to be terrible despite picking high in the lottery every single year.

 

I think some of you guys are applying logic from other sports to the NBA. The NBA draft does not work like you want it to.

[Derwood]

Teams sometimes get a superstar in the draft. Thats not really rebuilding. Thats 80% luck 20% losing.

 

Which of the current good teams would you say got good through the draft? Conversely, which of the terrible teams continue to be terrible despite picking high in the lottery every single year.

 

I think some of you guys are applying logic from other sports to the NBA. The NBA draft does not work like you want it to.

 

Do you consider the Bulls good? Entering the season, they had Rose, Deng, Butler, Gibson, Noah, Snell and (originally ) Hinrich on the roster, all guys they drafted.

[Rex Buckingham]

Teams sometimes get a superstar in the draft. Thats not really rebuilding. Thats 80% luck 20% losing.

 

Which of the current good teams would you say got good through the draft? Conversely, which of the terrible teams continue to be terrible despite picking high in the lottery every single year.

 

I think some of you guys are applying logic from other sports to the NBA. The NBA draft does not work like you want it to.

 

If Rose hadn't been hurt, the Bulls would be starting 4 guys they drafted (Rose, Butler, Deng, Noah) with Taj coming off the bench

 

OKC has drafted KD, Westbrook, and Ibaka, and initially got good with Harden, whom they drafted

 

San Antonio drafted Duncan, Parker, Manu, Kawhi Leonard

 

Portland drafted Aldridge, Lillard, Nic Batum

 

Indy drafted Hibbert, George, and Lance Stephenson

 

While that's not a huge list of homegrown guys, and many of those guys were drafted after the teams got top 5 picks (KD, Westbrook, Rose, Duncan, Aldridge)... But that's what happens, you still have to pick the right guys when you're at the top of the draft. And those are, after Miami, probably 5 (in this hypothetical non-injured DRose scenario) of the 6 or 7 next best teams

[Ryne Ween]

 

Do you consider the Bulls good? Entering the season, they had Rose, Deng, Butler, Gibson, Noah, Snell and (originally ) Hinrich on the roster, all guys they drafted.

 

 

The Bulls (including this year) have made the playoffs 9 of the last 10 years, the year they didnt they got incredibly lucky (both in terms of the 1% chance at #1 and the fact that that draft featured a superstar). Where was the rebuild? When they drafted Curry and Chandler 12 years ago?

 

The draft is to be used to upgrade your team, i know. Its a lot easier to draft when you are the Bulls and you can take a useful but flawed player like Taj at 17 or Butler at 30 than it is when you are the Cavs or the 76ers and you are trying to find a large upgrade high in the draft (when large upgrades are very difficult to find).

 

And its easier to look like a nice addition when you are Taj and Butler and are put in situations that play to your strengths because you have balance around you and a team that doesnt depend on you to create offense, than if you are Dion Waiters and you are asked to become an NBA scorer out of nowhere.

[imb]

Which of the current good teams would you say got good through the draft?

 

Is this question supposed to be helping your ill-conceived point?

[Ryne Ween]

Teams sometimes get a superstar in the draft. Thats not really rebuilding. Thats 80% luck 20% losing.

 

Which of the current good teams would you say got good through the draft? Conversely, which of the terrible teams continue to be terrible despite picking high in the lottery every single year.

 

I think some of you guys are applying logic from other sports to the NBA. The NBA draft does not work like you want it to.

 

If Rose hadn't been hurt, the Bulls would be starting 4 guys they drafted (Rose, Butler, Deng, Noah) with Taj coming off the bench

 

OKC has drafted KD, Westbrook, and Ibaka, and initially got good with Harden, whom they drafted

 

San Antonio drafted Duncan, Parker, Manu, Kawhi Leonard

 

Portland drafted Aldridge, Lillard, Nic Batum

 

Indy drafted Hibbert, George, and Lance Stephenson

 

While that's not a huge list of homegrown guys, and many of those guys were drafted after the teams got top 5 picks (KD, Westbrook, Rose, Duncan, Aldridge)... But that's what happens, you still have to pick the right guys when you're at the top of the draft. And those are, after Miami, probably 5 (in this hypothetical non-injured DRose scenario) of the 6 or 7 next best teams

 

Bulls - Got good when they got Rose. Not when they draft top 5 every year for 7 straight years.

Spurs - Got lucky that D Robinson got hurt in the year Duncan came out.

OKC - Got lucky Durant didnt go #1 that year. A core of Oden/Westbrook/Ibaka would challenge for an 8 seed.

Indy - Traded Jermaine Oneal for Hibbert. Otherwise a good example of taking mid first roudners and adding quality vets in free agency.

 

Other than Spurs (and lets be honest they lucked into one of the greatest players of all time)these teams have 0 titles and 2 final appearences. Other teams of note:

 

Heat - 3 titles purchased through free agency.

Celtics - free agency

Mavs - Won in dirk's 13 year with FA vets Chandler/Kidd/Terry/Marion/Stevenson

LA - Shaq and Pau.

 

Superstars with veteran supporting casts win in the NBA. Not young players and not through the lottery.

[Rex Buckingham]

Teams sometimes get a superstar in the draft. Thats not really rebuilding. Thats 80% luck 20% losing.

 

Which of the current good teams would you say got good through the draft? Conversely, which of the terrible teams continue to be terrible despite picking high in the lottery every single year.

 

I think some of you guys are applying logic from other sports to the NBA. The NBA draft does not work like you want it to.

 

If Rose hadn't been hurt, the Bulls would be starting 4 guys they drafted (Rose, Butler, Deng, Noah) with Taj coming off the bench

 

OKC has drafted KD, Westbrook, and Ibaka, and initially got good with Harden, whom they drafted

 

San Antonio drafted Duncan, Parker, Manu, Kawhi Leonard

 

Portland drafted Aldridge, Lillard, Nic Batum

 

Indy drafted Hibbert, George, and Lance Stephenson

 

While that's not a huge list of homegrown guys, and many of those guys were drafted after the teams got top 5 picks (KD, Westbrook, Rose, Duncan, Aldridge)... But that's what happens, you still have to pick the right guys when you're at the top of the draft. And those are, after Miami, probably 5 (in this hypothetical non-injured DRose scenario) of the 6 or 7 next best teams

 

Bulls - Got good when they got Rose. Not when they draft top 5 every year for 7 straight years.

Spurs - Got lucky that D Robinson got hurt in the year Duncan came out.

OKC - Got lucky Durant didnt go #1 that year. A core of Oden/Westbrook/Ibaka would challenge for an 8 seed.

Indy - Traded Jermaine Oneal for Hibbert. Otherwise a good example of taking mid first roudners and adding quality vets in free agency.

 

Other than Spurs (and lets be honest they lucked into one of the greatest players of all time)these teams have 0 titles and 2 final appearences. Other teams of note:

 

Heat - 3 titles purchased through free agency.

Celtics - free agency

Mavs - Won in dirk's 13 year with FA vets Chandler/Kidd/Terry/Marion/Stevenson

LA - Shaq and Pau.

 

Superstars with veteran supporting casts win in the NBA. Not young players and not through the lottery.

 

Hibbert was essentially picked by Indy, because the trade of O'neal to Toronto was completed as soon as he was picked. Toronto picked him for the Pacers.

 

And while other than the Spurs there are no titles, the Heat are (and have been) a serious Lebron injury away from being just another also-ran. And the argument wasn't about title winning teams, You asked what good teams did so through the draft, and I named 5 top teams that have pretty much done just that. Yes, they have supplemented their drafted players through free agency and they have picked at the top of the draft to get their big time stars, but that is exactly what teams like Philly are hoping to do. If Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins gets drafted by the 76ers or whoever and becomes a star, then they can add some pieces beside them and be competing for a title.

[imb]

Bulls - Got good when they got Rose. Not when they draft top 5 every year for 7 straight years.

Spurs - Got lucky that D Robinson got hurt in the year Duncan came out.

OKC - Got lucky Durant didnt go #1 that year. A core of Oden/Westbrook/Ibaka would challenge for an 8 seed.

Indy - Traded Jermaine Oneal for Hibbert. Otherwise a good example of taking mid first roudners and adding quality vets in free agency.

 

this is the stupidest [expletive] thing

 

the spurs didn't "get lucky," they held robinson out and tanked for a chance at number 1 because they wanted duncan.

 

Oden was the consensus first pick, and even if the thunder had taken them, they would have moved on from oden, and have a core of westbrook/ibaka/harden (forgetting for a moment that having oden would have thrown the future off entirely and they'd probably not have any of that group.)

your bulls and pacers points are nonsense.

 

Heat - 3 titles purchased through free agency.

Celtics - free agency

Mavs - Won in dirk's 13 year with FA vets Chandler/Kidd/Terry/Marion/Stevenson

LA - Shaq and Pau.

 

the heat won three titles by drafting wade and him being attractive enough to entice FAs

the Celtics had paul pierce, drafted well with rondo and then added through trades, not FA

the Mavs won by surrounding their uber talented PF they acquired in the draft with capable vets.

LA won by being [expletive] los angeles, they aren't analogous to this discussion at all. It's like debating why the rays don't play baseball like the yankees.

[Wilson A2000]

David Aldridge says Bulls might try to sign Granger if he is bought out. Why? Heat, Spurs, Clips also interested.

[Derwood]

David Aldridge says Bulls might try to sign Granger if he is bought out. Why? Heat, Spurs, Clips also interested.

 

Take a flyer, see if he has anything, keep him away from other playoff teams

[Wilson A2000]

David Aldridge says Bulls might try to sign Granger if he is bought out. Why? Heat, Spurs, Clips also interested.

 

Take a flyer, see if he has anything, keep him away from other playoff teams

 

Keep him away from other playoff teams? Bulls brass know at best they are losing in the second round even with Granger. And they would be over the cap.

[WrigleyField 22]

They probably won't sign anyone other than spaced out 10 day contracts until April 1. Lux tax concerns

[Ryne Ween]

It would be awesome to see Ben Gordon come back for one more mediocre run. It would be fun and there is no downside.

[KingCubsFan]

The Bulls really are in NBA hell right now. Not good enough to win a title, not bad enough to get a difference maker in the draft

 

What event happened over the last day or two that provoked you to make that comment? Just curious because thats been pretty obvious for awhile now.

Regardless of how they finish this year, they'll be getting a top 5 talent (Mirotic), a ton of cap space, and potentially old Rose back. They're in better shape than most non-contenders.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

You guys have it lucky, and don't you forget it.

 

Why did I have to be born in Sacramento. My dad (from Chicago) only cared about baseball so I became a Kings fan.

 

http://i.imgur.com/qCj5zIf.gif

[Ryne Ween]

Excited to see bulls gsw tonight. Really like golden states team. Off a back to back will be a very tough win and would say a lot about where the team is right now. A win tonight will make me feel better after the bad loss Sunday. Plus I took the Noah over 27.5 pts and boards and Booz over 15.5 pts player props.

[Guest]

tom thibodeau is amazing