Yankees Sign Masahiro Tanaka

[Guest]

 

- I'd strongly consider seeing what it would take to rent a guy like Grant Balfour. With no SPs added and the latest news on Vizcaino being less than inspiring, there aren't any big logjams created by adding him. In doing so you really have a very good pen locked down, and he can easily be flipped to essentially buy some assets at the deadline if you prefer. Or you can keep him as a measure of minimizing downside in total wins, especially if Strop and/or Parker regress.

 

You caught that too? Definite downer going from hearing he's flashing electric stuff at instructs to "He's still rehabbing and we're being cautious with him" or whatever the hell it exactly was that McLeod said.

 

Oh, what's this now?

 

At the convention McLeod said that Vizcaino was not 100% and that they were taking it slow with him and made some allusion to still expecting him to contribute this year. Not "my elbow hurts again" type setback, but I for one was certainly hoping(expecting really, after the news in the fall) that he would be starting ST without limitations.

[sneakypower]

The Cardinals and Red Sox deserve credit for having successful farm systems with none/one top 10 pick (while winning big league games).

it may be worth noting then, that the Cards win lots of games at the big league level almost entirely with players pulled out of their farm system, or from trades using players from their farm system

 

Did anybody say "don't build up your farm system?"

mentioning the Cardinals in contrast to our MLB-level failures kind of misses the point; we're seemingly trying to build a franchise mostly the same way that they have done, but they didn't have a decade-long stretch of overarching ineptitude on the MiLB side cratering their talent pool for years to come

[Guest]

The Cubs have been awful for decades, why has it taken until now for them to finally see some results from their minor league system?

 

Because you weren't paying attention?

Oh I paid attention. The only real prospects I saw come up where Mark Prior (no-brainer pick), Corey Patterson, and Felix Pie.

 

OK, even though your decades statement allows me to dig as far back as Greg Maddux, Mark Grace, Rafael Palmeiro, etc., how the hell did you manage to miss Carlos Zambrano, Kerry Wood, Starlin Castro, and Soto...plus the random decently productive guys like Theriot, Randy Wells, Sean Marshall, Barney, etc?

Edited January 22, 2014 by David

[SouthSideRyan]

The Cubs have been awful for decades, why has it taken until now for them to finally see some results from their minor league system?

 

It hasn't. The late 1990s/early 2000s farm systems were quite productive.

But you had ownership that wasn't willing to spend to keep that talent. You're not going to see that with today's prospects.

 

Who could you possibly be talking about??

[BeerHere]

Add "dealing with arrogant a-hole Yankee fans" to the crap pile this signing has created.

[USSoccer]

At the convention McLeod said that Vizcaino was not 100% and that they were taking it slow with him and made some allusion to still expecting him to contribute this year. Not "my elbow hurts again" type setback, but I for one was certainly hoping(expecting really, after the news in the fall) that he would be starting ST without limitations.

 

That sucks. Unsurprising, but it kind of sucks that he's starting to sound like Angel Guzman.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The Cubs have been awful for decades, why has it taken until now for them to finally see some results from their minor league system?

 

It hasn't. The late 1990s/early 2000s farm systems were quite productive.

But you had ownership that wasn't willing to spend to keep that talent. You're not going to see that with today's prospects.

 

That's ... not what happened.

[davell]

I really, really wanted Tanaka, but we can get Scherzer, Masterson, or Bailey, trade for an OFer, while still trading Shark, and be a playoff possibility in 2015.

 

Oh yeah, we're *totally* going to pay the market price for whatever 30-year-olds don't get contract extensions.

 

And you'd need two of those to have more than a "well, it's not impossible" chance.

 

I disagree.

 

C Castillo

1B Rizzo

2B Javy

SS Castro

3B KB

LF Sweeney

CF Lake

RF Ruggiano

 

SP Wood, Jackson, Arrieta

 

Sign one of Masterson, Scherzer, or Bailey, another SP for depth(you'd have Shark's return as a possibility as well) and trade Alcantara/Vogelbach for best OFer it can get you. With Almora and Soler on the way, along with CJ/PJ/Hendricks for rotation possibilities. I think that team has a good look to it, and should just get better over time.

[Guest]

I keep forgetting Welington Castillo might actually be kinda decent.

[KingCubsFan]

I really, really wanted Tanaka, but we can get Scherzer, Masterson, or Bailey, trade for an OFer, while still trading Shark, and be a playoff possibility in 2015.

 

 

how many more seasons are we going to play the "if we just get free agents X, Y and Z" scenario? nobody good wants to play for the cubs right now. let alone MULTIPLE guys that are good.

Actually, given how bad the Cubs are, I think it's more likely they would be able to sign multiple big ticket guys at the same time, as opposed to one. Signing multiple guys will give the players a sense that they're actually improving.

[SouthSideRyan]

That better be one hell of an ofer were trading for because the 3 you have penciled in might be the worst OF in baseball. And that rotation kinda sucks

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I disagree.

 

C Castillo

1B Rizzo

2B Javy

SS Castro

3B KB

LF Sweeney

CF Lake

RF Ruggiano

 

SP Wood, Jackson, Arrieta

 

Sign one of Masterson, Scherzer, or Bailey, another SP for depth(you'd have Shark's return as a possibility as well) and trade Alcantara/Vogelbach for best OFer it can get you. With Almora and Soler on the way, along with CJ/PJ/Hendricks for rotation possibilities. I think that team has a good look to it, and should just get better over time.

 

The outfield is terrible, the whole offense has an OBP problem, and the rotation isn't terrible but isn't "top-of-division" quality.

 

That team's not terrible, but it's probably not making the playoffs.

[BeerHere]

I keep forgetting Welington Castillo might actually be kinda decent.

He was a 3 WAR player last year. Not bad at all.

[Guest]

That better be one hell of an ofer were trading for because the 3 you have penciled in might be the worst OF in baseball. And that rotation kinda sucks

 

Yep.

[davell]

I really, really wanted Tanaka, but we can get Scherzer, Masterson, or Bailey, trade for an OFer, while still trading Shark, and be a playoff possibility in 2015.

 

Even with Tanaka, 2014 was not going to happen anyway, in all likelihood. It is what it is, but I'll take another top 5 pick, trade Shark, Veras, Schierholtz at the deadline, and add bigtime next offseason. Playoffs are a realistic possibility in 2015, in my opinion.

 

You trade Samardzija and actually sign one of those FA pitchers and you're right back where you started in terms of pitching.

I'm just trying to better my odds of coming up with a young guy that can turn into a TOR SP. Sanchez/Stroman, etc. With the lineup in place, I think the rotation being on a par with 2013 is OK, if you've added possibilities for a break out type.

[sneakypower]

how the hell did you manage to miss Carlos Zambrano, Kerry Wood, Starlin Castro, and Soto...plus the random decently productive guys like Theriot, Randy Wells, Shawn Marshall, Barney, etc?

it's cute that we had a few guys do kinda ok, but Kerry Wood being held up as a shining example of our farm/player development kind of says it all: he totaled 22 WAR in a career spanning 14 years, which ranks 66th amongst pitchers during that timeframe

[Guest]

I keep forgetting Welington Castillo might actually be kinda decent.

He was a 3 WAR player last year. Not bad at all.

 

Yes and he graded out really well defensively, but he also had a pretty high BABIP.

[Guest]

how the hell did you manage to miss Carlos Zambrano, Kerry Wood, Starlin Castro, and Soto...plus the random decently productive guys like Theriot, Randy Wells, Shawn Marshall, Barney, etc?

it's cute that we had a few guys do kinda ok, but Kerry Wood being held up as a shining example of our farm/player development kind of says it all: he totaled 22 WAR in a career spanning 14 years, which ranks 66th amongst pitchers during that timeframe

 

But he brought up Felix Pie, so basically his argument was that guys never came up and did anything.

[Guest]

And somehow I managed to forget Samardzija.

[davell]

I disagree.

 

C Castillo

1B Rizzo

2B Javy

SS Castro

3B KB

LF Sweeney

CF Lake

RF Ruggiano

 

SP Wood, Jackson, Arrieta

 

Sign one of Masterson, Scherzer, or Bailey, another SP for depth(you'd have Shark's return as a possibility as well) and trade Alcantara/Vogelbach for best OFer it can get you. With Almora and Soler on the way, along with CJ/PJ/Hendricks for rotation possibilities. I think that team has a good look to it, and should just get better over time.

 

The outfield is terrible, the whole offense has an OBP problem, and the rotation isn't terrible but isn't "top-of-division" quality.

 

That team's not terrible, but it's probably not making the playoffs.

 

If we've got a new TV deal, much more can be done. Thats based on a 100 mill payroll.

[SouthSideRyan]

If we're not in on any of the actual good players leftover this offseason we're going to have an 80m payroll. If we trade shark on top of that we'll be around 74. We shed another 20m in contracts next year with only rizzo getting a non arb raise of substance

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If we've got a new TV deal, much more can be done. Thats based on a 100 mill payroll.

 

Which brings us back to: Do you *really* believe they will pay market prices for 3 or 4 of the best FAs in a single offseason, when they are post-prime and the FA classes keep getting worse?

 

They could have a $400m payroll available to them and I don't think they'd do that.

[Guest]

Just to spitball on davell's actual lineup, say this is the level of production you get in 2015...

 

C - Castillo - 3 wins

1B - Rizzo - 3 wins

2B - Baez - 2.5 wins (trying really hard to be conservative here)

3B - Bryant - 2 wins (I'm still pretty doubtful that he comes up as a 3B - but I'm going with davell's scenario)

SS - Castro - 3 wins (lets pretend 2013 never happend kthx)

OF - Sweeney - 2 wins

OF - Lake - -5 wins

OF - Ruggiano - 1 win

 

 

(but seriously, I can't see them trotting that out as the starting OF in 2015)

 

 

Where would that put them, just in terms of the everyday 8 guys, compared to the rest of the league?

[imb]

I cant imagine they dont resign shark now. Take that 20 mil posting fee and just add it to whatever you were going to give shark before. 5/80? Ok it's 5/100 now. Who cares at this point.

[davell]

That better be one hell of an ofer were trading for because the 3 you have penciled in might be the worst OF in baseball. And that rotation kinda sucks

 

Yep.

 

I based it off of a 100 mill. The OF isn't going to change a TON with Almora/Soler on the way. I do think we're likely to stopgap ourselves there until they get here. I do think Alcantara/Vogelbach brings a very solid bat though.

 

If you've got Wood/Edwin/Arrieta, with a Masterson/Scherzer/Bailey addition AND a top 50 prospect, Hendricks, CJ, PJ, along with a stopgap competing for the 5th spot, I disagree, I don't see that rotation sucking. If you prefer holding onto Shark here, instead of trading him, fine. You'd have Shark/Wood/Jackson/Arrieta and one of those 3. Whats wrong with that?