2013 Draft Day Thread + Cubs Picks Discussion

[pitchcs]

forgot about Hendricks and Maples, too.

 

Yeah, Hendricks seems like he has a shot to be in the rotation next year.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

forgot about Hendricks and Maples, too.

 

A soft-tossing righty and a future reliever with major control problems at A-. Well, now I'm sold. Never mind. Pitching isn't an organizational problem after all.

 

It's not insurmountable, but it's going to take some good work. Whereas you could probably just derp your way to an average or better offense for the next decade.

[Elrhino]

forgot about Hendricks and Maples, too.

 

Listing a 21 year old in A- with a 7+ ERA as one of our top pitching prospects is not a ringing endorsement of our farm pitching.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Elrhino

[Guest]

ABTY with two interesting notes, on strategy going forward

 

Hearing under slot on rd 2/3 was to avoid doing so rds 6-10 when many other teams will be doing so... Look for talent grab next five picks...

 

On Bryant

 

Cubs will try to save 250K- sounds as if solid slot will do it though...

 

First quote is very interesting.

 

If this ABTY person is correct, then it sounds like what I've been saying. In a mediocre top end of the draft, what you end up having, in any sports draft, is a lot of guys bottled up closely afterwards. I can think of a few guys that are supposedly 6th-10th round guys that really aren't that far in talent from some of the guys going in the 3rd-4th. They could very well look at this draft as a way to build up depth in the system. Granted, one could argue that we had depth and needed ceiling, but perhaps they think we needed depth as well.

 

Yeah, I forgot who suggested it but I knew someone had. Good call if this is what transpires.

[Guest]

it's not like they have to fill 25 spots at the ML level with pitchers, middle relievers can come from anywhere and give you anything. they've got potential rotation guys with Johnson and Vizcaino, with Blackburn and Underwood at lower levels right now. meanwhile, they have Jackson, Wood, Garza (if they want him), and Shark at the major league level, which could be the meat of their rotation for 3-4 years if they so desire. plug Johnson or Vizcaino in if all goes well and you really don't have to develop a million arms each year.

 

You listed our four best pitching prospects and gave us an A-ball MOR ceiling with arm injury questions, an Angel Guzman redux, and a pair of second-round teenagers that everybody has a few of.

 

Sure, middle relievers can come from anywhere and anything. But the good ones are probably going to come from being good prospects, something we have very few of.

 

well, if you're going to frame it that way, then any system can look bad. i'm not saying that things look great, but like i said, you don't have to have a ton of high-ceiling pitching prospects when you are fairly young 1-4 with your long-term ML rotation. those 4 guys could all turn into relievers (your Angel Guzman redux could be a TOR starter, to frame it a different way) and we'd be ok. throw in Hendricks and Maples in middle relief and forget the 2 teenagers and we'd still be ok. Hell, take out any 4 of the 6 and turn the others into relievers and we'd survive over the next 4 years.

 

I think the staff is fine right now and they have a few tradable commodities that could net pitching prospects in return, it's not like they're pitching-starved at the ML level, nor do they look to be any time soon. and that's what really matters, i couldn't care less if the smokies finish last every single year if the ML level is fine.

[Elrhino]

And there goes Wahl to the As at #161

[Guest]

forgot about Hendricks and Maples, too.

 

A soft-tossing righty and a future reliever with major control problems at A-. Well, now I'm sold. Never mind. Pitching isn't an organizational problem after all.

 

It's not insurmountable, but it's going to take some good work. Whereas you could probably just derp your way to an average or better offense for the next decade.

 

kill yourself

[OleMissCub]

Stuart Turner next round for us?

 

381/.452/.533/.986 for an SEC catcher with exceptional defense. Not bad.

[Guest]

forgot about Hendricks and Maples, too.

 

Listing a 21 year old in A- with a 7+ ERA as one of our top pitching prospects is not a ringing endorsement of our farm pitching.

 

well, sure, Maples has control problems but he does have a high upside if he can figure it out. but my point is, even if he doesn't, it doesn't matter all that much.

[jersey cubs fan]

forgot about Hendricks and Maples, too.

 

A soft-tossing righty and a future reliever with major control problems at A-. Well, now I'm sold. Never mind. Pitching isn't an organizational problem after all.

 

It's not insurmountable, but it's going to take some good work. Whereas you could probably just derp your way to an average or better offense for the next decade.

 

I really don't understand where you're going with all this. We spent a decade with management that didn't know how to draft and develop a single bat, and they weren't particularly good at acquiring other people's bats. These guys actually seem to have a decent grasp on putting together a solid crop of position players (which account for more than half of what happens on the baseball field), and they have been decent at acquiring other people's arms as well. It just looks like you're fretting for the sake of fretting about AA pitching as if it's the only thing that matters at this point. They've already taken three college pitchers in the first five rounds. What the hell are you going on about?

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Stuart Turner next round for us?

 

381/.452/.533/.986 for an SEC catcher with exceptional defense. Not bad.

 

He went to Minnesota at 78.

[OleMissCub]

Stuart Turner next round for us?

 

381/.452/.533/.986 for an SEC catcher with exceptional defense. Not bad.

 

He went to Minnesota at 78.

 

What the....

 

Must have been in the bathroom or something.

[davell]

Stuart Turner next round for us?

 

381/.452/.533/.986 for an SEC catcher with exceptional defense. Not bad.

he went in the 3rd

[Guest]

I'll also remind you guys that the Cubs are in Chicago, and have a crazy cheap TV deal that's running out. They will be able to buy all the pitching they need.

[mookie]

[Hairyducked Idiot]

No, you can't make just any system look bad by describing their pitching prospects accurately. Just the bad ones pitching-wise.

 

It'd be like if our hitting prospects started with Vogelbach as the best and were down to Bruno by the 4th or 5th on the list.

 

i'm not saying that things look great, but like i said, you don't have to have a ton of high-ceiling pitching prospects when you are fairly young 1-4 with your long-term ML rotation.

 

This is where we disagree.

 

First, we don't have four of those starters. We have three. The fourth is a free agent at the end of the season.

 

Second, they aren't really all that young.

 

Third, the nature of pitching is such that having just enough isn't remotely enough. It's not just that some of them can get hurt or become ineffective in the next few years. It's that statistically, a couple of them probably will. If by 2015, only one of Garza/Jackson/Samardzija/Wood has gone the Zambrano/Wells route (two guys who were fairly young and in our rotation not that long ago), then we should consider ourselves quite lucky.

 

it's not like they're pitching-starved at the ML level, nor do they look to be any time soon. and that's what really matters, i couldn't care less if the smokies finish last every single year if the ML level is fine.

 

Of course we're pitching-starved at the MLB level. We had to fill out our bullpen with whatever flotsam we could find and it's cost us quite a few games already.

[Guest]

Kind of surprised neither Adam Plutko or Nick Vander Tuig of UCLA have been picked yet.

[OleMissCub]

Kind of surprised neither Adam Plutko or Nick Vander Tuig of UCLA have been picked yet.

 

Post useless without stats. Gimme gimme

[Guest]

i'm not saying that things look great, but like i said, you don't have to have a ton of high-ceiling pitching prospects when you are fairly young 1-4 with your long-term ML rotation.

 

This is where we disagree.

 

First, we don't have four of those starters. We have three. The fourth is a free agent at the end of the season.

 

Second, they aren't really all that young.

 

sure they are, and I said "fairly young", all are in their 20's, that's good for another 3-4 years. and they can afford to sign Garza long term if they want. if they don't, they can trade him.

 

Third, the nature of pitching is such that having just enough isn't remotely enough. It's not just that some of them can get hurt or become ineffective in the next few years. It's that statistically, a couple of them probably will. If by 2015, only one of Garza/Jackson/Samardzija/Wood has gone the Zambrano/Wells route (two guys who were fairly young and in our rotation not that long ago), then we should consider ourselves quite lucky.

 

it's not like they're pitching-starved at the ML level, nor do they look to be any time soon. and that's what really matters, i couldn't care less if the smokies finish last every single year if the ML level is fine.

 

Of course we're pitching-starved at the MLB level. We had to fill out our bullpen with whatever flotsam we could find and it's cost us quite a few games already.

 

bullpen is flotsam, whether it's your flotsam or someone else's flotsam.

[UK1679666180]

I'm fine with taking a potential injury risk with Masek and signing him above slot at this point. hopefully what they said about fixing his mechanics are true and he is able to stay healthy. Like Skulina, it'll come down to his change-up whether or not he'll project better in the pen or as a starter as a poor man's Oswalt.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Tyler Skulina ‏@tskully31 27 May

Gotta see the purge when it comes out #interesting

 

Ewww. Bust.

 

 

What does this mean?

 

movie looks dumb

 

Ah, had no idea we were talking about a movie (was afraid he was talking about his... little Tyler). The Purge? Never heard of it

 

Stupid looking home invasion thriller with Ethan Hawke. Looks like it would appeal to those who drive large pickup trucks and are excited by the sound of their horn.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I really don't understand where you're going with all this. We spent a decade with management that didn't know how to draft and develop a single bat, and they weren't particularly good at acquiring other people's bats. These guys actually seem to have a decent grasp on putting together a solid crop of position players (which account for more than half of what happens on the baseball field), and they have been decent at acquiring other people's arms as well. It just looks like you're fretting for the sake of fretting about AA pitching as if it's the only thing that matters at this point. They've already taken three college pitchers in the first five rounds. What the hell are you going on about?

 

I don't understand what's so hard to understand where I'm going. Our pitching outlook organizationally is not very good. There's no agenda. There's nowhere I'm "going with it." It's just an easily observable situation.

 

Like I said, it's not insurmountable. They'll just have to do a good job focusing their resources on acquiring pitching from outside the organization for the next few years.

 

Also, non-first-round draft picks don't really matter and certainly don't move the needle. Maybe a couple of them per draft will magically develop into something useful, but there's no good way to predict it.

[Guest]

bullpens are the new market inefficiency, at least jim hendry says so.

[jersey cubs fan]

I really don't understand where you're going with all this. We spent a decade with management that didn't know how to draft and develop a single bat, and they weren't particularly good at acquiring other people's bats. These guys actually seem to have a decent grasp on putting together a solid crop of position players (which account for more than half of what happens on the baseball field), and they have been decent at acquiring other people's arms as well. It just looks like you're fretting for the sake of fretting about AA pitching as if it's the only thing that matters at this point. They've already taken three college pitchers in the first five rounds. What the hell are you going on about?

 

I don't understand what's so hard to understand where I'm going. Our pitching outlook organizationally is not very good. There's no agenda. There's nowhere I'm "going with it." It's just an easily observable situation.

 

Like I said, it's not insurmountable. They'll just have to do a good job focusing their resources on acquiring pitching from outside the organization for the next few years.

 

Also, non-first-round draft picks don't really matter and certainly don't move the needle. Maybe a couple of them per draft will magically develop into something useful, but there's no good way to predict it.

 

Well then your post was stupid and pointless because everybody knew their status prior to you providing your opinion on the matter. You are providing zero insight into the matter.

[jersey cubs fan]

Pepperdine RH SP

 

another college arm