Rizzo

[ConstableRabbit]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/05/07/bernstein-abreu-story-obscuring-truth/

More Rizzo/Abreu talk...

Bernstein is a jackass hack writer who has no ability to comprehend anything that does not come out of his mouth. Really, how hard is it understand that a team CAN build for the future while doing their best to field a competitive team?

https://twitter.com/LenKasper/status/464066514048409600

[Guest]

The thing that bothers me the most about using Abreu as an example for the point that Wittenmyer was trying to make is that it implicitly assumes that the Cubs front office doesn't agree with the signing of a player like Abreu. The whole "there's more than one way to rebuild" argument that uses Abreu like that ignores that he's the type of player the Cubs like and have pursued. Wittenmyer himself even acknowledges that the reason they don't have more of those guys is financial limitations, so the whole thing ends up talking across itself in taking the most roundabout, linkbaity way to take a swipe at Ricketts as possible.

[jersey cubs fan]

The thing that bothers me the most about using Abreu as an example for the point that Wittenmyer was trying to make is that it implicitly assumes that the Cubs front office doesn't agree with the signing of a player like Abreu. The whole "there's more than one way to rebuild" argument that uses Abreu like that ignores that he's the type of player the Cubs like and have pursued. Wittenmyer himself even acknowledges that the reason they don't have more of those guys is financial limitations, so the whole thing ends up talking across itself in taking the most roundabout, linkbaity way to take a swipe at Ricketts as possible.

 

I don't think it's all that roundabout at all.

 

The Cubs have chosen to rebuild by taking a multi-year dive to stock up on top draft picks. It's pretty crazy that their ownership has given the front office a singular mandate and have completely blown off the concept of even being competitive at the major league level. The White Sox are trying to win some games, and Abreu personifies that fact.

 

 

The fact that Rizzo is good has absolutely nothing to do with the concept.

[Guest]

The thing that bothers me the most about using Abreu as an example for the point that Wittenmyer was trying to make is that it implicitly assumes that the Cubs front office doesn't agree with the signing of a player like Abreu. The whole "there's more than one way to rebuild" argument that uses Abreu like that ignores that he's the type of player the Cubs like and have pursued. Wittenmyer himself even acknowledges that the reason they don't have more of those guys is financial limitations, so the whole thing ends up talking across itself in taking the most roundabout, linkbaity way to take a swipe at Ricketts as possible.

 

I don't think it's all that roundabout at all.

 

The Cubs have chosen to rebuild by taking a multi-year dive to stock up on top draft picks. It's pretty crazy that their ownership has given the front office a singular mandate and have completely blown off the concept of even being competitive at the major league level. The White Sox are trying to win some games, and Abreu personifies that fact.

 

 

The fact that Rizzo is good has absolutely nothing to do with the concept.

 

How does Abreu personify that fact, because he's been good or because they spent money? The Sox playing .500 ball for a month doesn't really show a commitment to being competitive to me, unless you're implying that the Cubs wouldn't have wanted to add guys like Abreu or Eaton who keyed their fluky start. Look at their pitching staff, it's Sale(hurt), Quintana, and a trough of sorrow, and the bullpen is worse, partially because they traded their closer for a prospect. Even Eaton came at the price of a young MLB SP whose output has matched Eaton thus far. And this is the example of not "taking a dive"? If Abreu had OPSed .600 for a month getting acclimated to MLB pitching would they still be meeting the threshold for not intentionally tanking or whatever you want to call it? The whole comparison is silly. The Sox made good moves this offseason, but they certainly didn't take any extra care to avoid being bad in the short term, otherwise they wouldn't have traded Addison Reed for Mike Olt's proxy or made their rotation Sale & Jose and pray for rain. Playing .500 baseball for 35 games doesn't change that.

[imb]

the cubs probably would have gone after abreu if rizzo didn't exist so its a stupid argument and jersey is dumb again, the end

[ConstableRabbit]

Is there an echo in here? :D

[SouthSideRyan]

the cubs probably would have gone after abreu if rizzo didn't exist so its a stupid argument and jersey is dumb again, the end

 

I bet it would have been as exciting as our going after Tanaka

[jersey cubs fan]

The thing that bothers me the most about using Abreu as an example for the point that Wittenmyer was trying to make is that it implicitly assumes that the Cubs front office doesn't agree with the signing of a player like Abreu. The whole "there's more than one way to rebuild" argument that uses Abreu like that ignores that he's the type of player the Cubs like and have pursued. Wittenmyer himself even acknowledges that the reason they don't have more of those guys is financial limitations, so the whole thing ends up talking across itself in taking the most roundabout, linkbaity way to take a swipe at Ricketts as possible.

 

I don't think it's all that roundabout at all.

 

The Cubs have chosen to rebuild by taking a multi-year dive to stock up on top draft picks. It's pretty crazy that their ownership has given the front office a singular mandate and have completely blown off the concept of even being competitive at the major league level. The White Sox are trying to win some games, and Abreu personifies that fact.

 

 

The fact that Rizzo is good has absolutely nothing to do with the concept.

 

How does Abreu personify that fact, because he's been good or because they spent money? The Sox playing .500 ball for a month doesn't really show a commitment to being competitive to me, unless you're implying that the Cubs wouldn't have wanted to add guys like Abreu or Eaton who keyed their fluky start. Look at their pitching staff, it's Sale(hurt), Quintana, and a trough of sorrow, and the bullpen is worse, partially because they traded their closer for a prospect. Even Eaton came at the price of a young MLB SP whose output has matched Eaton thus far. And this is the example of not "taking a dive"? If Abreu had OPSed .600 for a month getting acclimated to MLB pitching would they still be meeting the threshold for not intentionally tanking or whatever you want to call it? The whole comparison is silly. The Sox made good moves this offseason, but they certainly didn't take any extra care to avoid being bad in the short term, otherwise they wouldn't have traded Addison Reed for Mike Olt's proxy or made their rotation Sale & Jose and pray for rain. Playing .500 baseball for 35 games doesn't change that.

 

Unlike the Cubs, they actually tried and actually did spend money despite not being good.

 

You have to be a complete moron to not understand the very simple comparison being made.

[jersey cubs fan]

You have to use some really circuitous apologist logic to pretend there wasn't a point there.

[sneakypower]

...they have a lower payroll than the Cubs, and their big signing makes significantly less than Edwin Jackson

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

hey guys, what are we arguing about?

[Guest]

hey guys, what are we arguing about?

Different permutation of the standard one. Sneaky makes a good point, but did the Sox payroll rise or fall?

[SouthSideRyan]

...they have a lower payroll than the Cubs, and their big signing makes significantly less than Edwin Jackson

 

He only makes 1.5M/Y less than Jackson, and the contract as a whole is worth 16M more.

 

ETA: My bigger annoyance in contrasting the 2 is the White Sox actually making an attempt to improve the team, rather than fiddling for 4 years waiting on prospects. There's been a sucking void of creativity here coming from some of the smarter minds in baseball

Edited May 7, 2014 by SouthSideRyan

[Guest]

hey guys, what are we arguing about?

Different permutation of the standard one. Sneaky makes a good point, but did the Sox payroll rise or fall?

 

Per Cot's:

 

2014: $ 90,062,659

2013: $118,914,500

2012: $ 97,669,500

2011: $127,789,000

2010: $103,080,000

2009: $ 96,068,500

2008: $121,189,332

2007: $108,671,833

2006: $102,750,667

[gscool89]

Don't forget the Cubs are paying 12 million to Soriano to play for the Yankees. The Cubs payroll on the field is significantly less.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

Per Cot's:

 

2014: $ 90,062,659

2013: $118,914,500

http://i.imgur.com/wfkFtfV.gif

[Guest]

...they have a lower payroll than the Cubs, and their big signing makes significantly less than Edwin Jackson

 

He only makes 1.5M/Y less than Jackson, and the contract as a whole is worth 16M more.

 

ETA: My bigger annoyance in contrasting the 2 is the White Sox actually making an attempt to improve the team, rather than fiddling for 4 years waiting on prospects. There's been a sucking void of creativity here coming from some of the smarter minds in baseball

I just had a nice twitter convo with Len Kasper about that. It's part of the plan to not be creative.

[neely crenshaw]

I don't see adding Abreau as proving the sox are building at both levels. Last year the subtracted Rios, Santiago,Floyd,Peavy, Reed, Crane, and Thornton to add Eaton, Abreau and a talented but unproven Garcia.

Now that's building!

 

Soon Dunn and Konerko will be gone.

Abreau might continue to pound the ball, but he was actually supposed to be more of average and OB% guy, with some power. 30-35 hrs

Right now several sox players are playing better than ever. If Abreau,Eaton, Ramirez,Flowers, Gillespie,Dunn, and Viceido all continue at their current pace they are still a below .500 team.

To me there is no doubt they fall off, and they are still looking at close to 90 losses.

There are so many problem areas that even if Eaton, Abreau and Garcia are all stars, they aren't any closer to contending right now than we are, and we at least have hope on the Horizon…they have Semien.

[Guest]

ETA: My bigger annoyance in contrasting the 2 is the White Sox actually making an attempt to improve the team, rather than fiddling for 4 years waiting on prospects. There's been a sucking void of creativity here coming from some of the smarter minds in baseball

 

They traded their closer for a 3B prospect, signed Abreu, and traded a SP w/ 4 years of team control for an OF w/ 5 years of team control. My biggest complaint with Theo and Jed is that they haven't done more in the trading market, but is there really a chasm here?

[davell]

If given the chance to swap every player in our organization for every player in theirs, would anyone do it? I know I wouldn't.

[KingCubsFan]

If given the chance to swap every player in our organization for every player in theirs, would anyone do it? I know I wouldn't.

It doesn't matter, the Sox try harder.

[MWV]

TWTW.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

If given the chance to swap every player in our organization for every player in theirs, would anyone do it? I know I wouldn't.

 

Only if we can swap Ricketts for Reinsdorf.

[KingCubsFan]

If given the chance to swap every player in our organization for every player in theirs, would anyone do it? I know I wouldn't.

 

Only if we can swap Ricketts for Reinsdorf.

Whoa there.

[SouthSideRyan]

If given the chance to swap every player in our organization for every player in theirs, would anyone do it? I know I wouldn't.

 

The White Sox had the farm system in place pre-Hahn that everyone tries to pretend we did pre-Theo/Jed. With the same number of OMG Albatross contracts to boot.

Edited May 7, 2014 by SouthSideRyan