Rizzo

[Guest]

How does that make him a bad example? Because he isn't perfect?

Of course not.

 

Look, the Cubs have some sort of budget constraints. The Cubs have also tried to get free agents that would have been productive for the major league club. The Cubs missed on those free agents because of budget constraints. Jose Abreu was a free agent who wasn't as good as the ones the Cubs targeted. He was had at a reasonable price due to his lesser abilities and older age. There was no place for him on the Cubs. Had the Cubs needed a first baseman, they may have made a run at him.

 

And the end of the day, I don't think that is Abreu the case study for how to build at the major league level via free agency. It smells of media meatballery and gushing over a pleasant surprise at the beginning of the season. Would this article would have been written if Abreu weren't outperforming his peripherals?

 

Does it matter?

Yes, because we're talking about rebuilding, not being hot for a month.

 

Abreu is just an example of a greater overlying point that not enough of the media is making.

[ConstableRabbit]

How does that make him a bad example? Because he isn't perfect?

Of course not.

 

Look, the Cubs have some sort of budget constraints. The Cubs have also tried to get free agents that would have been productive for the major league club. The Cubs missed on those free agents because of budget constraints. Jose Abreu was a free agent who wasn't as good as the ones the Cubs targeted. He was had at a reasonable price due to his lesser abilities and older age. There was no place for him on the Cubs. Had the Cubs needed a first baseman, they may have made a run at him.

 

And the end of the day, I don't think that is Abreu the case study for how to build at the major league level via free agency. It smells of media meatballery and gushing over a pleasant surprise at the beginning of the season. Would this article would have been written if Abreu weren't outperforming his peripherals?

 

He's not the case study, but he is a perfectly reasonable example that plays for a team in the same city as the Cubs and happen to be playing them the day it was written.

 

there's nothing wrong with this.

So, if Abreu were a RF instead of a poorly fielding 1B, do you think that the Cubs would not make a serious run at him?

[Guest]

How does that make him a bad example? Because he isn't perfect?

Of course not.

 

Look, the Cubs have some sort of budget constraints. The Cubs have also tried to get free agents that would have been productive for the major league club. The Cubs missed on those free agents because of budget constraints. Jose Abreu was a free agent who wasn't as good as the ones the Cubs targeted. He was had at a reasonable price due to his lesser abilities and older age. There was no place for him on the Cubs. Had the Cubs needed a first baseman, they may have made a run at him.

 

And the end of the day, I don't think that is Abreu the case study for how to build at the major league level via free agency. It smells of media meatballery and gushing over a pleasant surprise at the beginning of the season. Would this article would have been written if Abreu weren't outperforming his peripherals?

 

He's not the case study, but he is a perfectly reasonable example that plays for a team in the same city as the Cubs and happen to be playing them the day it was written.

 

there's nothing wrong with this.

So, if Abreu were a RF instead of a poorly fielding 1B, do you think that the Cubs would not make a serious run at him?

 

The FO isn't being criticized in that article so much as ownership.

 

It's not about making a serious run. They need to have the resources to actually get these guys when they come available.

[SouthSideRyan]

How does that make him a bad example? Because he isn't perfect?

Of course not.

 

Look, the Cubs have some sort of budget constraints. The Cubs have also tried to get free agents that would have been productive for the major league club. The Cubs missed on those free agents because of budget constraints. Jose Abreu was a free agent who wasn't as good as the ones the Cubs targeted. He was had at a reasonable price due to his lesser abilities and older age. There was no place for him on the Cubs. Had the Cubs needed a first baseman, they may have made a run at him.

 

And the end of the day, I don't think that is Abreu the case study for how to build at the major league level via free agency. It smells of media meatballery and gushing over a pleasant surprise at the beginning of the season. Would this article would have been written if Abreu weren't outperforming his peripherals?

 

Does it matter?

Yes, because we're talking about rebuilding, not being hot for a month.

 

But Abreu is just an example, and a convenient one for a sportswriter to use because he plays in the same city as the team he's covering. He's saying "Hey, the White Sox lost 99 games last year, and had a much worse farm system than the Cubs, somehow they determined that there was a better strategy out there than not trying until 2018. Maybe the Cubs could've done that?"

[SouthSideRyan]

How does that make him a bad example? Because he isn't perfect?

Of course not.

 

Look, the Cubs have some sort of budget constraints. The Cubs have also tried to get free agents that would have been productive for the major league club. The Cubs missed on those free agents because of budget constraints. Jose Abreu was a free agent who wasn't as good as the ones the Cubs targeted. He was had at a reasonable price due to his lesser abilities and older age. There was no place for him on the Cubs. Had the Cubs needed a first baseman, they may have made a run at him.

 

And the end of the day, I don't think that is Abreu the case study for how to build at the major league level via free agency. It smells of media meatballery and gushing over a pleasant surprise at the beginning of the season. Would this article would have been written if Abreu weren't outperforming his peripherals?

 

He's not the case study, but he is a perfectly reasonable example that plays for a team in the same city as the Cubs and happen to be playing them the day it was written.

 

there's nothing wrong with this.

So, if Abreu were a RF instead of a poorly fielding 1B, do you think that the Cubs would not make a serious run at him?

 

Like if his name was Jacoby Ellsbury or Shin Soo-Choo?

 

ETA: And to be fair, I didn't like Choo at what I expected him to get.

[Guest]

Paying for their own renovations? Were they delusional enough to be convinced that they were going to get the public money someway/somehow? Straight up lying?

 

 

When did the Joe Ricketts/Obama [expletive] happen?

 

2012 campaign season.

 

It would really suck if there was some deal that was near being worked out with Emmanuel for getting the money publicly somehow and that fell through because of that stupidity.

 

Can that even be a thing?

 

If our FO lost their ability to have "unlimited resources" because the Rickettses are now funding the stadium renovations themselves, then any talk of debt/terms of sale limitations holding down payroll are a steaming load of [expletive].

 

I would imagine so, but I don't know the first thing about managing finances at that level.

[ConstableRabbit]

How does that make him a bad example? Because he isn't perfect?

Of course not.

 

Look, the Cubs have some sort of budget constraints. The Cubs have also tried to get free agents that would have been productive for the major league club. The Cubs missed on those free agents because of budget constraints. Jose Abreu was a free agent who wasn't as good as the ones the Cubs targeted. He was had at a reasonable price due to his lesser abilities and older age. There was no place for him on the Cubs. Had the Cubs needed a first baseman, they may have made a run at him.

 

And the end of the day, I don't think that is Abreu the case study for how to build at the major league level via free agency. It smells of media meatballery and gushing over a pleasant surprise at the beginning of the season. Would this article would have been written if Abreu weren't outperforming his peripherals?

 

He's not the case study, but he is a perfectly reasonable example that plays for a team in the same city as the Cubs and happen to be playing them the day it was written.

 

there's nothing wrong with this.

So, if Abreu were a RF instead of a poorly fielding 1B, do you think that the Cubs would not make a serious run at him?

 

Like if his name was Jacoby Ellsbury or Shin Soo-Choo?

 

ETA: And to be fair, I didn't like Choo at what I expected him to get.

A worse, cheaper version? Yes.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

Like if his name was Jacoby Ellsbury or Shin Soo-Choo?

 

ETA: And to be fair, I didn't like Choo at what I expected him to get.

A worse, cheaper version? Yes.

 

Cespedes?

[ConstableRabbit]

How does that make him a bad example? Because he isn't perfect?

Of course not.

 

Look, the Cubs have some sort of budget constraints. The Cubs have also tried to get free agents that would have been productive for the major league club. The Cubs missed on those free agents because of budget constraints. Jose Abreu was a free agent who wasn't as good as the ones the Cubs targeted. He was had at a reasonable price due to his lesser abilities and older age. There was no place for him on the Cubs. Had the Cubs needed a first baseman, they may have made a run at him.

 

And the end of the day, I don't think that is Abreu the case study for how to build at the major league level via free agency. It smells of media meatballery and gushing over a pleasant surprise at the beginning of the season. Would this article would have been written if Abreu weren't outperforming his peripherals?

 

He's not the case study, but he is a perfectly reasonable example that plays for a team in the same city as the Cubs and happen to be playing them the day it was written.

 

there's nothing wrong with this.

So, if Abreu were a RF instead of a poorly fielding 1B, do you think that the Cubs would not make a serious run at him?

 

The FO isn't being criticized in that article so much as ownership.

 

It's not about making a serious run. They need to have the resources to actually get these guys when they come available.

Yes, I agree. But I also think that the Cubs had what it took to get Abreu if he played at a position of need. If we had enough to sign Jackson, and make a huge (albeit short) bid for Tanaka, we could have afforded Abreu.

 

I guess this is (unintentionally) devolving into another "speculation about the baseball budget" discussion...

[SouthSideRyan]

Well if we had enough to make a huge bid on Tanaka, we had enough to sign anyone this side of Cano

[ConstableRabbit]

Well if we had enough to make a huge bid on Tanaka, we had enough to sign anyone this side of Cano

Who should we have signed? Outfielders under 32, last offseason:

+ Chris Coghlan (30) -- signed

+ Ellsbury (30) -- NYY 7/$153m

+ Chris Young (30) -- Mets, 1/$7.25m [i probably would have taken that]

+ Jeff Francoeur -- "Could anybody be this good?"

+ Sizemore (31) -- Bos, 1/$700k [coming off injury, but worth it for that $]

+ Choo (31) -- TEX, 7/$130m

+ Franklin Gutierrez (31) -- SEA 1/$1m [interested at that price, but not sure what the hometown situation was]

 

Our OF is horrendous, but would Chris Young have made the difference? Or were you hoping to back up the Brinks truck to end up paying dudes into their late 30s...

 

ETA: wasn't cherry picking the ages -- 32 year olds were Kelly Johnson, Sam Fuld, David Murphy, David Kubel, Nate McLouth.

[Sammy Sofa]

Asking if any one missed FA signing would have made a difference is a loaded question; it's a self-fulfilling prophecy when you spend MULTIPLE offseasons passing on guys who, yes, on their own wouldn't have been the difference-maker, but who would have been steps to not fielding a hot mess. It really feels like they're just holding spots for their [expletive] prospects.

[sneakypower]

i really, really wanted Chris Young

[Sammy Sofa]

Plus he left Cruz off of that list.

[ConstableRabbit]

Asking if any one missed FA signing would have made a difference is a loaded question; it's a self-fulfilling prophecy when you spend MULTIPLE offseasons passing on guys who, yes, on their own wouldn't have been the difference-maker, but who would have been steps to not fielding a hot mess. It really feels like they're just holding spots for their [expletive] prospects.

...which is why the White Sox signing one guy (who btw is outperforming his peripherals and will likely not be a long-term cornerstone) does not "expose the fallacy" of the Cubs' plan.

[SouthSideRyan]

Well if we had enough to make a huge bid on Tanaka, we had enough to sign anyone this side of Cano

Who should we have signed? Outfielders under 32, last offseason:

+ Chris Coghlan (30) -- signed

+ Ellsbury (30) -- NYY 7/$153m

+ Chris Young (30) -- Mets, 1/$7.25m [i probably would have taken that]

+ Jeff Francoeur -- "Could anybody be this good?"

+ Sizemore (31) -- Bos, 1/$700k [coming off injury, but worth it for that $]

+ Choo (31) -- TEX, 7/$130m

+ Franklin Gutierrez (31) -- SEA 1/$1m [interested at that price, but not sure what the hometown situation was]

 

Our OF is horrendous, but would Chris Young have made the difference? Or were you hoping to back up the Brinks truck to end up paying dudes into their late 30s...

 

ETA: wasn't cherry picking the ages -- 32 year olds were Kelly Johnson, Sam Fuld, David Murphy, David Kubel, Nate McLouth.

 

I already said Ellsbury.

[ConstableRabbit]

Plus he left Cruz off of that list.

[expletive], I did. My bad.

[SouthSideRyan]

Asking if any one missed FA signing would have made a difference is a loaded question; it's a self-fulfilling prophecy when you spend MULTIPLE offseasons passing on guys who, yes, on their own wouldn't have been the difference-maker, but who would have been steps to not fielding a hot mess. It really feels like they're just holding spots for their [expletive] prospects.

...which is why the White Sox signing one guy (who btw is outperforming his peripherals and will likely not be a long-term cornerstone) does not "expose the fallacy" of the Cubs' plan.

 

Wait, why is Abreu unlikely to be a long-term cornerstone?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Yes, because we're talking about rebuilding, not being hot for a month.

 

"I didn't use the word 'rebuilding' and I wouldn't. That's a buzzword in baseball that leads people down the wrong path." - Theo Epstein, Oct. 25, 2011

[Soul]

Yes, because we're talking about rebuilding, not being hot for a month.

 

"I didn't use the word 'rebuilding' and I wouldn't. That's a buzzword in baseball that leads people down the wrong path." - Theo Epstein, Oct. 25, 2011

 

That was "unlimited resources" Theo.

 

I wonder what "PTR" Theo would say.

[treebird]

Yes, because we're talking about rebuilding, not being hot for a month.

 

"I didn't use the word 'rebuilding' and I wouldn't. That's a buzzword in baseball that leads people down the wrong path." - Theo Epstein, Oct. 25, 2011

 

That was "unlimited resources" Theo.

 

I wonder what "PTR" Theo would say.

 

"tell me what you think of black people again, this time while speaking directly into my lapel"

[jersey cubs fan]

"tell me what you think of black people again, this time while speaking directly into my lapel"

 

http://gifatron.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/George-Costanza-clapping.gif

[ConstableRabbit]

Asking if any one missed FA signing would have made a difference is a loaded question; it's a self-fulfilling prophecy when you spend MULTIPLE offseasons passing on guys who, yes, on their own wouldn't have been the difference-maker, but who would have been steps to not fielding a hot mess. It really feels like they're just holding spots for their [expletive] prospects.

...which is why the White Sox signing one guy (who btw is outperforming his peripherals and will likely not be a long-term cornerstone) does not "expose the fallacy" of the Cubs' plan.

 

Wait, why is Abreu unlikely to be a long-term cornerstone?

I don't think he's nearly as good as he's been playing, and I'm not the only one who feels that way.

[dcvalpo]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/05/07/bernstein-abreu-story-obscuring-truth/

More Rizzo/Abreu talk...

[Guest]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/05/07/bernstein-abreu-story-obscuring-truth/

More Rizzo/Abreu talk...

Bernstein is a jackass hack writer who has no ability to comprehend anything that does not come out of his mouth. Really, how hard is it understand that a team CAN build for the future while doing their best to field a competitive team?