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NFL Week 14

UMFan83

By UMFan83,
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UMFan83 GOAT

UMFan83

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Thursday, November 29

Denver at Oakland 7:20 PM

 

Sunday, December 2

Chicago at Minnesota 12:00 PM

St. Louis at Buffalo 12:00 PM

Dallas at Cincinnati 12:00 PM

Kansas City at Cleveland 12:00 PM

Tennessee at Indianapolis 12:00 PM

Philadelphia at Tampa Bay 12:00 PM

Baltimore at Washington 12:00 PM

Atlanta at Carolina 12:00 PM

NY Jets at Jacksonville 12:00 PM

San Diego at Pittsburgh 12:00 PM

Miami at San Francisco 3:05 PM

Arizona at Seattle 3:25 PM

New Orleans at NY Giants 3:25 PM

Detroit at Green Bay 7:20 PM

 

Monday, December 3

Houston at New England 7:30 PM

 

 

I just wanted to mention the story that Goodell has made a proposal to eliminate kickoffs from the NFL.

 

I realize that kickoffs are the most dangerous play in football but what the hell. I'm sick of Goodell making these drastic changes to the league in the name of safety then turn around and double the number of Thursday games an allow 4th rate replacement refs work for an entire month. He is without a doubt a walking contradiction. This guy is such a horrible commissioner.

Edited by UMFan83

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Banedon GOAT

Banedon

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Ill edit this with the schedule later. Denver/Oakland tonight.

 

I just wanted to mention the story that Goodell has made a proposal to eliminate kickoffs from the NFL.

 

I realize that kickoffs are the most dangerous play in football but what the hell. I'm sick of Goodell making these drastic changes to the league in the name of safety then turn around and double the number of Thursday games an allow 4th rate replacement refs work for an entire month. He is without a doubt a walking contradiction. This guy is such a horrible commissioner.

 

Sean Gregory of TIME writes that one of the options being considered for replacing kickoffs entails giving the ball to the team that would have been kicking off at its own 30, automatically facing a fourth down and 15 yards to go. The team can then choose to punt or go for it, via fake punt or otherwise.

 

In other words, the kickoff would be replaced with the punt, and the onside kick would be replaced with a fourth-down conversion roughly half the distance of Ray Rice’s recent catch-and-run.

 

Awful. Works fine for the opening of the game or the half or something, but what happens when the game is close late and one team is trying to come back. The chances of converting a 4th and 15 would be MUCH better than an onside kick.

Soul MVP

Soul

Old-Timey Member
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Is it April fools or something? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Especially coming from the guy who talks big about safety, then slaps a whopping 20k on guys for head hunting.
treebird All-Star

treebird

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Ill edit this with the schedule later. Denver/Oakland tonight.

 

I just wanted to mention the story that Goodell has made a proposal to eliminate kickoffs from the NFL.

 

I realize that kickoffs are the most dangerous play in football but what the hell. I'm sick of Goodell making these drastic changes to the league in the name of safety then turn around and double the number of Thursday games an allow 4th rate replacement refs work for an entire month. He is without a doubt a walking contradiction. This guy is such a horrible commissioner.

 

Sean Gregory of TIME writes that one of the options being considered for replacing kickoffs entails giving the ball to the team that would have been kicking off at its own 30, automatically facing a fourth down and 15 yards to go. The team can then choose to punt or go for it, via fake punt or otherwise.

 

In other words, the kickoff would be replaced with the punt, and the onside kick would be replaced with a fourth-down conversion roughly half the distance of Ray Rice’s recent catch-and-run.

 

Awful. Works fine for the opening of the game or the half or something, but what happens when the game is close late and one team is trying to come back. The chances of converting a 4th and 15 would be MUCH better than an onside kick.

 

that sounds good to me, the chances of recovering an onside kick are too low

UMFan83 GOAT

UMFan83

Old-Timey Member
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Theoretically, under that rule a team may go an entire game without controlling the ball.

 

Well theoretically that could happen with the current rules as well unless you are counting kicking off the ball to start a half as controlling the ball which you probably are.

 

The fact that this was even made as a serious option is embarrassing to the league. If they were ever going to do something like that, I would suggest limiting the 4th and 15 option thing to inside 2 minutes in the 4th and on kickoffs to start the halves. That would account for maybe 95% of all onside kicks that are made today. Maybe 4 minutes left instead of 2, but at 2 mins it would go along with all the other special rules that take place inside of 2 mins. Still incredibly dumb though

CubColtPacer South Bend Cubs

CubColtPacer

Community Moderator
Posted
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Ill edit this with the schedule later. Denver/Oakland tonight.

 

I just wanted to mention the story that Goodell has made a proposal to eliminate kickoffs from the NFL.

 

I realize that kickoffs are the most dangerous play in football but what the hell. I'm sick of Goodell making these drastic changes to the league in the name of safety then turn around and double the number of Thursday games an allow 4th rate replacement refs work for an entire month. He is without a doubt a walking contradiction. This guy is such a horrible commissioner.

 

Sean Gregory of TIME writes that one of the options being considered for replacing kickoffs entails giving the ball to the team that would have been kicking off at its own 30, automatically facing a fourth down and 15 yards to go. The team can then choose to punt or go for it, via fake punt or otherwise.

 

In other words, the kickoff would be replaced with the punt, and the onside kick would be replaced with a fourth-down conversion roughly half the distance of Ray Rice’s recent catch-and-run.

 

Awful. Works fine for the opening of the game or the half or something, but what happens when the game is close late and one team is trying to come back. The chances of converting a 4th and 15 would be MUCH better than an onside kick.

 

Here's a post from football outsiders last year analyzing the difference between the two options for the college game. They conclude that 4th and 15 for colleges would actually be too difficult. It should be more like 4th and 12 or 4th and 13 instead.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/varsity-numbers/2011/varsity-numbers-fourth-and-15

 

In the NFL, the only stat I've seen is for this year, which had 4th and 15 or longer being converted around 19 percent of the time while onside kicks were around 13 percent. But I'd like to see something in the NFL game with a little bit larger of a sample size. That yardage needed to be gained might need a tweak, but it should be fairly close.

 

I do think though that it would create the illusion of being able to come back easier, which would be good for the game IMO. It would take quite a bit of getting used to though.

jersey cubs fan GOAT

jersey cubs fan

Old-Timey Member
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As interesting as that proposal to eliminate kickoffs is, I think 4th and 15 is too easy. Before it could even be considered, the difficulty of it would need to be increased.

 

The details don't really matter at this point. The concept is worth exploring and not worth the vitriol.

 

But I'm not sure how much they have to go beyond 4/15. Assume for a second a team coming back late in the game. They probably are very low on TO or maybe even out of TO. You'd have to make that 15 yard completion to get a 1st down but it's not like the clock stops immediately like it does after an onside kick.

OleMissCub Cooperstown

OleMissCub

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As interesting as that proposal to eliminate kickoffs is, I think 4th and 15 is too easy. Before it could even be considered, the difficulty of it would need to be increased.

 

the offensive team has to play the snap with only 10 men...like a power play or something :-)

Soul MVP

Soul

Old-Timey Member
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I like the randomness of the onside kick, especially since it really isn't worth a team specifically focusing on building a great onside kick recovery team. So it really does become a crapshoot at the end of the game, which I like in that situation.

 

If they could find a way to keep the onside kick I would have much less objection to it. Think about how bad NFL officials are at calling pass interference penalties, defensive holding, etc. I think teams could exploit that on the "4th and 15" play; especially if they are a team with a savvy, top-line passing core of players. While I like the general move of the NFL to greater emphasis on passing, I'm not ready to put that advantage into the game in place of the onside kick.

 

I think it needs much more thought. And I'm sure they will do a lot more think-tanking on it before it becomes reality. I don't think the onside kick, specifically, is the cause of injury. It's the long kickoffs with everyone flying down the field full force.

 

One thing I agree with, looking at the plethora of articles that have come out since Goodell's comments: there's no way he would have floated the idea if it wasn't going to be seriously considered.

Sammys Boombox ACL Cubs

Sammys Boombox

Verified Member
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I don't mind this as much as I did when I first read it. However, there are a few cons that would need some thinking. Many have already been pointed out.

 

1. Onside kick recoveries are not dependent upon whether or not a team is primarily a running team or a passing team, or whether or not they win primarily on their defensive play or their offensive play. The new rule would benefit teams that have good passing offenses. Of course it could be argued that teams with good passing defenses would also benefit from this rule. Obviously if you win by pounding the ball and eating clock you're not going to like this rule.

 

2b. As soon as somebody gets a possession because of a bad PI call I will hate this rule. I would maybe be OK with them adopting a clause that automatic first downs are not possible on the play. i.e. There's a PI 12 yards from the line of scrimmage. They mark off the 12 yards and make it 4th and 3. I would even be OK with them marking off the 12 yards and making it 4th and 10 from that spot. Although that is starting to get complicated and really screwy. Maybe just make every penalty 5 yards on both teams with no automatic first downs and be done with it. In some way I think this needs to be addressed.

 

2b. Roughing the kicker...

 

3. Would the clock stop if they convert on 4th and 15 and are tackled in bounds?

 

4. Can they punt the ball out of bounds without it being a penalty?

Pushfrog98 ACL Cubs

Pushfrog98

Old-Timey Member
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Cowboy player killed a teammate in a drunk driving accident this morning.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/08/cowboys-jerry-brown-dead-teammate-josh-brent-charged/related/

Josh Brent was from Bloomington. Played at Central Catholic (I THINK with Uh-oh). He didn't have his head on straight in HS and got a way with a lot of crap because of his talent. I wish someone would have stood up to him sooner so this wouldn't have happened.

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