Dodgers Win Bid for Ryu-Hyun Jin ($25.7 M)

[KingCubsFan]

I think it's disingenuous to lump Concepcion (and to a lesser extent Jin) in with Soler, Cespedes, Darvish, and Puig. I know he's older, but why is Chen never included in these calculations?

Despite the fact that we all now know Concepcion probably has a better chance at making the big leagues as Soler's driver as opposed to as a pitcher, he was a definite prospect when he was signed. I think he should count, regardless of how he turned out. I agree re: Chen. He often gets left out of the conversation, but he would have been a definite asset regardless of how old he is.

[Guest]

If the Dodgers, who are spending tons of money in every sense imaginable, are only able to get 2 of 6 targets in International FA just like the Cubs, then maybe criticizing the Cubs for being unwilling spenders in International FA is not the most logical of criticisms.

 

Wow, I didn't figure you'd need it spelled out for you so obviously.

 

The Dodgers are spending, spending on anything and everything. If they only get a few targets from one pool it doesn't really matter because they are in several pools. The Cubs are only swimming in one pool and should be dominating it, but they are not. If you aren't going to spend any effort/money to improve the major league team than you better damn well spend a hell of a lot more money/effort in your self-imposed kiddie pool.

 

 

The point is that if a team that has no apprehensions about throwing money around is having a similar measure of success at signing International FA as you are, then money probably isn't the limiting factor here.

[Sammy Sofa]

If the Dodgers, who are spending tons of money in every sense imaginable, are only able to get 2 of 6 targets in International FA just like the Cubs, then maybe criticizing the Cubs for being unwilling spenders in International FA is not the most logical of criticisms.

 

Wow, I didn't figure you'd need it spelled out for you so obviously.

 

The Dodgers are spending, spending on anything and everything. If they only get a few targets from one pool it doesn't really matter because they are in several pools. The Cubs are only swimming in one pool and should be dominating it, but they are not. If you aren't going to spend any effort/money to improve the major league team than you better damn well spend a hell of a lot more money/effort in your self-imposed kiddie pool.

 

 

The point is that if a team that has no apprehensions about throwing money around is having a similar measure of success at signing International FA as you are, then money probably isn't the limiting factor here.

 

Again, we're talking about international FA signings that include ones that predate the Dodgers' spending sprees, so saying the Dodgers are "2 for 6" like the Cubs is as disingenuous as saying that Cubs are competing against all of the other teams for these signings.

[jersey cubs fan]

If the Dodgers, who are spending tons of money in every sense imaginable, are only able to get 2 of 6 targets in International FA just like the Cubs, then maybe criticizing the Cubs for being unwilling spenders in International FA is not the most logical of criticisms.

 

Wow, I didn't figure you'd need it spelled out for you so obviously.

 

The Dodgers are spending, spending on anything and everything. If they only get a few targets from one pool it doesn't really matter because they are in several pools. The Cubs are only swimming in one pool and should be dominating it, but they are not. If you aren't going to spend any effort/money to improve the major league team than you better damn well spend a hell of a lot more money/effort in your self-imposed kiddie pool.

 

 

The point is that if a team that has no apprehensions about throwing money around is having a similar measure of success at signing International FA as you are, then money probably isn't the limiting factor here.

 

Seriously man, you are so grossly missing the point that it actually surprises me that you are the one typing.

[Guest]

If the Dodgers, who are spending tons of money in every sense imaginable, are only able to get 2 of 6 targets in International FA just like the Cubs, then maybe criticizing the Cubs for being unwilling spenders in International FA is not the most logical of criticisms.

 

Wow, I didn't figure you'd need it spelled out for you so obviously.

 

The Dodgers are spending, spending on anything and everything. If they only get a few targets from one pool it doesn't really matter because they are in several pools. The Cubs are only swimming in one pool and should be dominating it, but they are not. If you aren't going to spend any effort/money to improve the major league team than you better damn well spend a hell of a lot more money/effort in your self-imposed kiddie pool.

 

 

The point is that if a team that has no apprehensions about throwing money around is having a similar measure of success at signing International FA as you are, then money probably isn't the limiting factor here.

 

Again, we're talking about international FA signings that include ones that predate the Dodgers' spending sprees, so saying the Dodgers are "2 for 6" like the Cubs is as disingenuous as saying that Cubs are competing against all of the other teams for these signings.

 

Okay, so throw out last offseason and the point remains. The Cubs got the best player to come out of that group, and the Dodgers spent an obscene amount of money and got the two lesser talents(were there other big money internationals since the summer? I don't remember).

 

But really the whole undercurrent here is something larger than that, and it's that there's a lot of noise about the Cubs not being willing to spend money, and it's becoming a refrain that's twisted into a caricature of what's really happening. The Cubs have been spending money, they've spent the max they were allowed to spend in the draft without losing a draft pick. They spent tens of millions of dollars on Soler and Concepcion. They spent 60 million dollars on Castro. They were talking extension with Garza before his disappointing 2012 and injury. They're talking extension with Samardzija now. They've already been linked to several SP FA's who will require tens of millions of dollars to acquire. They've spent a lot behind the scenes in beefing up the front office, making structural improvements to player development/scouting, etc.

 

What they truly were not and do not appear willing to do is 1) spend their way into 2012 contention, and on a related note 2) Spend big on decline years. 1) was debated to death and long since passed, and I have a hard time getting too upset with 2) as a rule (early returns from the oft-discussed 2011 FAs certainly seem to vindicate the approach). So that leaves a small number of "misses", all of whom the Cubs were heavily after, Darvish, Cespedes, and now Ryu. Two of those have a blind bidding process that I personally have a terribly difficult time blaming a team for losing, and the other is of course Cespedes. Even if they had hit on those guys, 2012 would have been lost. Even if they had hit on those guys, competition in 2013 would be a far from certain proposition. And that's why I have a hard time getting in such a lather over "not spending", because the timetable is not significantly altered unless you wanted them to throw hundreds of millions of dollars around in an effort that would have been a horrific failure based on returns so far.

 

That doesn't mean that the front office gets carte blanche to do whatever they want, but I've been happy enough with the moves they've made to this point that I'm not worried about it. If they don't address SP well enough or don't add young/prime talent like they did last offseason, I'm going to be annoyed. But I have no reason to think they won't do that at this point, so I'll wait for that to actually come to pass before getting upset about it.

[Sammy Sofa]

In all seriousness, that was a really roundabout way to talk the main point that some of us are making; that the Cubs, so far, have largely failed in an area they stated was going to be of critical importance: the signing of international FA. As of right now they have exactly one of any consequence, and the failure to sign more goes well beyond the simplistic notion that they only aren't willing to spend enough money. I'm focusing on this area in this discussion, and all of the extensions and land buying in the world isn't going to distract from the main point that, for several reasons, they've dropped the ball so far in a key area in both rebuilding the team in the short run and down the line. No, it's not a huge field, but even subtracting the blind bids they failed to get the job done with Puig and Cespedes, and that's huge. Yes, I know there are excuses; the bottom line is that the Cubs are left without players they NEED to sign and they need to find ways to change that.

[Guest]

In all seriousness, that was a really roundabout way to talk the main point that some of us are making; that the Cubs, so far, have largely failed in an area they stated was going to be of critical importance: the signing of international FA. As of right now they have exactly one of any consequence, and the failure to sign more goes well beyond the simplistic notion that they only aren't willing to spend enough money. I'm focusing on this area in this discussion, and all of the extensions and land buying in the world isn't going to distract from the main point that, for several reasons, they've dropped the ball so far in a key area in both rebuilding the team in the short run and down the line. No, it's not a huge field, but even subtracting the blind bids they failed to get the job done with Puig and Cespedes, and that's huge. Yes, I know there are excuses; the bottom line is that the Cubs are left without players they NEED to sign and they need to find ways to change that.

 

I think you're really overstating it with that characterization. I'd have been happy with Cespedes, Ryu, or (especially) Darvish as Cubs, but to me it's laughable to turn them into some pass/fail referendum.

[Sammy Sofa]

In all seriousness, that was a really roundabout way to talk the main point that some of us are making; that the Cubs, so far, have largely failed in an area they stated was going to be of critical importance: the signing of international FA. As of right now they have exactly one of any consequence, and the failure to sign more goes well beyond the simplistic notion that they only aren't willing to spend enough money. I'm focusing on this area in this discussion, and all of the extensions and land buying in the world isn't going to distract from the main point that, for several reasons, they've dropped the ball so far in a key area in both rebuilding the team in the short run and down the line. No, it's not a huge field, but even subtracting the blind bids they failed to get the job done with Puig and Cespedes, and that's huge. Yes, I know there are excuses; the bottom line is that the Cubs are left without players they NEED to sign and they need to find ways to change that.

 

I think you're really overstating it with that characterization. I'd have been happy with Cespedes, Ryu, or (especially) Darvish as Cubs, but to me it's laughable to turn them into some pass/fail referendum.

 

Well, it kind of is when they themselves place (rightly so) so much emphasis on this aspect of team building. And it's not like I'm expecting them to buy everything they say; even just having one more of Cespdes (especially) or even Puig would, as I've already said, make my opinion very different, and that's hardly an unrealistic expectation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was the general consensus around here, too. Bottom line, given the guys available to this point they should have come away with more than just Soler (and yes, it is essentially just Soler).

[Guest]

In all seriousness, that was a really roundabout way to talk the main point that some of us are making; that the Cubs, so far, have largely failed in an area they stated was going to be of critical importance: the signing of international FA. As of right now they have exactly one of any consequence, and the failure to sign more goes well beyond the simplistic notion that they only aren't willing to spend enough money. I'm focusing on this area in this discussion, and all of the extensions and land buying in the world isn't going to distract from the main point that, for several reasons, they've dropped the ball so far in a key area in both rebuilding the team in the short run and down the line. No, it's not a huge field, but even subtracting the blind bids they failed to get the job done with Puig and Cespedes, and that's huge. Yes, I know there are excuses; the bottom line is that the Cubs are left without players they NEED to sign and they need to find ways to change that.

 

I think you're really overstating it with that characterization. I'd have been happy with Cespedes, Ryu, or (especially) Darvish as Cubs, but to me it's laughable to turn them into some pass/fail referendum.

 

Well, it kind of is when they themselves place (rightly so) so much emphasis on this aspect of team building. And it's not like I'm expecting them to buy everything they say; even just having one more of Cespdes (especially) or even Puig would, as I've already said, make my opinion very different, and that's hardly an unrealistic expectation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was the general consensus around here, too. Bottom line, given the guys available to this point they should have come away with more than just Soler (and yes, it is essentially just Soler).

 

If signing just one guy makes that much a difference in your outlook(especially Puig, who EVERYONE laughed at when LAD signed him), I'm not sure why the current state of affairs is so upsetting.

[jersey cubs fan]

If signing just one guy makes that much a difference in your outlook(especially Puig, who EVERYONE laughed at when LAD signed him), I'm not sure why the current state of affairs is so upsetting.

 

The Cubs suck really really really bad. They have indicated a complete lack of interest in acquiring current major league free agents. They have told us over and over that the only way they will get better is by investing heavily on prospects, both foreign and domestic, and they've come up short in that regards. How do you not understand this?

[Guest]

If signing just one guy makes that much a difference in your outlook(especially Puig, who EVERYONE laughed at when LAD signed him), I'm not sure why the current state of affairs is so upsetting.

 

The Cubs suck really really really bad. They have indicated a complete lack of interest in acquiring current major league free agents. They have told us over and over that the only way they will get better is by investing heavily on prospects, both foreign and domestic, and they've come up short in that regards. How do you not understand this?

 

It's really hard to take you seriously with the language you're using here. "Complete lack of interest", "told us over and over the only way", "suck really really really bad". Nuance is okay, I promise.

[Tryptamine]

If signing just one guy makes that much a difference in your outlook(especially Puig, who EVERYONE laughed at when LAD signed him), I'm not sure why the current state of affairs is so upsetting.

 

The Cubs suck really really really bad. They have indicated a complete lack of interest in acquiring current major league free agents. They have told us over and over that the only way they will get better is by investing heavily on prospects, both foreign and domestic, and they've come up short in that regards. How do you not understand this?

 

How are you not understanding that getting a 1/3 of their targets is still excellent? It's ridiculous to expect them to get every single target. They were the high bidder on Puig, and they supposedly weren't even given a chance to match the A's offer to Cespedes.

[imb]

thank god we didn't sign this dude because think of how many lame street fighter jokes we would have had to read during game threads. dodged a bullet.

[davell]

The tone has changed quite a bit on Puig, since he signed. Was it a ton to give him? Sure. But its not inconceivable he winds up worth it either. Don't know what side of this argument can use that its very likeky we outbid the Dodgers on him too, but he chose them anyway.

[Sammy Sofa]

If signing just one guy makes that much a difference in your outlook(especially Puig, who EVERYONE laughed at when LAD signed him), I'm not sure why the current state of affairs is so upsetting.

 

The Cubs suck really really really bad. They have indicated a complete lack of interest in acquiring current major league free agents. They have told us over and over that the only way they will get better is by investing heavily on prospects, both foreign and domestic, and they've come up short in that regards. How do you not understand this?

 

How are you not understanding that getting a 1/3 of their targets is still excellent? It's ridiculous to expect them to get every single target. They were the high bidder on Puig, and they supposedly weren't even given a chance to match the A's offer to Cespedes.

 

Again with the "every single target" garbage; who here is saying that the Cubs could or should sign all of these guys? And I'm sorry, but the "2 out of 6" thing isn't all that impressive when 1 of those guys is Concepcion.

 

I also don't buy the A's story unless we're assuming Cespedes' agent is a complete moron. I'm assuming it means that the Cubs previously indicated rather strongly in whatever they were offering that they were going to stick by the years they were offering. That's the only way it makes sense that agent wouldn't "give them a chance."

[Sammy Sofa]

If signing just one guy makes that much a difference in your outlook(especially Puig, who EVERYONE laughed at when LAD signed him), I'm not sure why the current state of affairs is so upsetting.

 

Because the team is very bad and this is a prime avenue to improve the team both now and down the line.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I seem to recall saying it was silly to laugh at LA when they signed Puig until we had more information.

[Banedon]

thank god we didn't sign this dude because think of how many lame street fighter jokes we would have had to read during game threads. dodged a bullet.

 

Theo could have signed him if he'd used just a bit more Guile. Should've given the guy a Blanka check.

[KingCubsFan]

If signing just one guy makes that much a difference in your outlook(especially Puig, who EVERYONE laughed at when LAD signed him), I'm not sure why the current state of affairs is so upsetting.

 

Because the team is very bad and this is a prime avenue to improve the team both now and down the line.

It appeared to be a prime avenue, before the Dodgers started printing money and giving everyone in sight outlandish contracts.

[SouthSideRyan]

If signing just one guy makes that much a difference in your outlook(especially Puig, who EVERYONE laughed at when LAD signed him), I'm not sure why the current state of affairs is so upsetting.

 

Because the team is very bad and this is a prime avenue to improve the team both now and down the line.

It appeared to be a prime avenue, before the Dodgers started printing money and giving everyone in sight outlandish contracts.

 

Well might as well stop trying until they go bankrupt again.

[sneakypower]

If signing just one guy makes that much a difference in your outlook(especially Puig, who EVERYONE laughed at when LAD signed him), I'm not sure why the current state of affairs is so upsetting.

 

Because the team is very bad and this is a prime avenue to improve the team both now and down the line.

It appeared to be a prime avenue, before the Dodgers started printing money and giving everyone in sight outlandish contracts.

 

Well might as well stop trying until they go bankrupt again.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/30074181.jpg

[Guest]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN

Dodgers keep loading up on scouting, hiring six scouts: Pedro Avila, Gene Grimaldi, Patrick Guerrero, Pat Kelly, Jamey Storvick,Mike Tosar.

 

 

Those damn Dodgers! Beating us at our own game left and right!!!

[Guest]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN

Dodgers keep loading up on scouting, hiring six scouts: Pedro Avila, Gene Grimaldi, Patrick Guerrero, Pat Kelly, Jamey Storvick,Mike Tosar.

 

 

Those damn Dodgers! Beating us at our own game left and right!!!

FYI Buster, they signed these scouts 2 weeks ago.

[Warpticon]

thank god we didn't sign this dude because think of how many lame street fighter jokes we would have had to read during game threads. dodged a bullet.

 

Theo could have signed him if he'd used just a bit more Guile. Should've given the guy a Blanka check.

 

That would have been totally Dhalsim

[Guest]

Not so good on the Cubs, according to Phil Rogers: “While Hyun-jin Ryu is not yet a big name in North America, losing him was a bigger blow for the Cubs than you probably think. President Theo Epstein and general manager Jed Hoyer wanted the rights to the 25-year-old South Korean left-hander because they believe he can step right into a big-league rotation and address a glaring lack of pitching. They had done a lot of homework on him.” Rogers goes on to suggest that the Cubs’ bid was around $20 million, short of the $25.7 million paid by the Dodgers. I’m still somewhat ambivalent on the “loss” – the Cubs know a whole lot more about Ryu than I do, and presumably they had a strong grasp on how they valued him. If the Dodgers valued him differently, well then, for now, we have to accept it. We’ll see who was right in about two years.

 

From BN

 

http://www.bleachernation.com/2012/11/14/lukewarm-stove-baker-ryu-hunter-relievers-blue-jays-mets/